As a recieving TE... I think Fred Davis is better

[War Paint]

Davis is a better TE...period. He is a freaking animal out there...Cooley is 29 and is not getting any younger...Davis will be our TE for the future and he will be better than Cooley. I'm not one of these narrow minded ppl thinking that we only need ONE great TE and have to trade one... No---keep both of them....I just believe that Davis is better and obviously has more potential because he is only 24. He is BEASTING at a young age.

Cooley had 2 drops last night by the way. Yes he breaks tackles...yes he has decent hands....yes he can run routes....I just believe that Fred Davis can do it BETTER....and oh yeah..he's more athletic!!!! He will make people miss and you CANNOT cover him with a LB or DLineman unlike Coolster. Davis needs to be covered by a CB because he is faster, stronger, and quicker than Cooley...sorry guys..I know you love "CC47" but it's the truth

and no, he will not get traded...we just have a better TE under the Veteran right now...My eyes don't deceive me because I know what I see with that kid Davis (The only other great pick from the 08' draft). He will eventually take Cooley's spot and he will be our #1 receiving TE. When we go through another draft/FA and we get some big guys (OL, RB, FB, TE) to block for us upfront, you will see the superior potential in Davis.

Well, Cooley is 28, not 29 according to wikipedia. TEs are productive in their mid 30s, so that's a good 7 years of productivity we can get from Cooley.

I guess we should fire our front office and put you in charge since they must be incompetent when judging talent, because they obviously don't know what they are doing having Cooley starting ahead of Davis.

People are overrating Davis because he was one of the very few who had some production in one of our most horrible seasons last year. It's the same reason why a lot of people had high hopes for Devin Thomas this year, because he had some decent plays last year.

Seriously, if Davis was better than Cooley, he would be starting ahead of him!

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

No, an opinion is "I like the taste of cabbage" or "I find brunettes hotter than blonds" or whatever. Saying someone has a problem with drops when they only have two so far this season isn't an opinion. It's a misrepresentation of the facts.

So now you're telling me what my opinions are and what they aren't? Control freak much? My opinion remains the same. He goes down easier than he used to, and he drops more passes. That's what i THINK, therefore, it's my opinion.

Also, I love how you're citing two drops from another poster with an unsourced post. Two drops because that guy said so? Jeeze.

I'm sorry if my opinion has apparently ruined your day dude. Just accept the fact that you're not going to change it.

[s0crates]

I don't know if anybody remembers this, but despite his good season last year, Davis did drop nine passes. He also had a big drop this year, failing to make the most of his limited opportunities.

Davis is a good athlete, and we are lucky to have him in case Cooley gets injured, but until that happens, Cooley is the starter.

[Conn]

I don't know if anybody remembers this, but despite his good season last year, Davis did drop nine passes. He also had a big drop this year, failing to make the most of his limited opportunities.

Yup, he had the highest or second highest drop percentage on the team, it was a stat they showed in one of our last two games.

[surferskin]

I love Cooley but I don't think it's a stretch to say that Davis could be just as good or better than Chris, given more opportunities. Davis has a much higher ceiling of the two.

Also, I don't think that Cooley's skills have diminished at all. I love having both of them, they just need to get Davis more involved.

[Botched]

So now you're telling me what my opinions are and what they aren't? Control freak much? My opinion remains the same. He goes down easier than he used to, and he drops more passes. That's what i THINK, therefore, it's my opinion.

Also, I love how you're citing two drops from another poster with an unsourced post. Two drops because that guy said so? Jeeze.

The only stats I could find for dropped passes were from Stats, LLC, and they only listed players with 3 or more drops.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&type=receiving&rank=232

Some players with 3 or more drops: Randy Moss, Brent Celek, Calvin Johnson, Terrell Owens, Dallas Clark, Chad Ochocinco, Donald Driver, Dustin Keller, Brandon Marshall, Reggie Wayne, and Wes Welker.

[s0crates]

So now you're telling me what my opinions are and what they aren't? Control freak much? My opinion remains the same. He goes down easier than he used to, and he drops more passes. That's what i THINK, therefore, it's my opinion.

Also, I love how you're citing two drops from another poster with an unsourced post. Two drops because that guy said so? Jeeze.

I'm sorry if my opinion has apparently ruined your day dude. Just accept the fact that you're not going to change it.

Wow. It looks to me like you are the one getting upset.

I think what we have here is a case of belief perseverance or confirmation bias. It is a well known concept in psychology, which is basically this: People tend to hold on to their beliefs even after having those beliefs disproven.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/belief_perseverance.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Many poster have expressed their opinion, most of whom regard Cooley as better, some of whom do not, but that is not the point. The point is Cooley is better statistically, as far as drop percentage, and better in the eyes of the people who may be regarded as experts on the matter, the coaches.

Sure, you are entitled to you opinion, and I harbor no hopes of changing your mind, but your opinion is wrong.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

He's dropped 2 passes this season and caught 28.

Better way to look at it, imo, is catches vs. targets. I'll actually cite a source here and point out that Cooley has been targeted 45 times this season, with 28 receptions. That's 17 times where he did not make the catch. Most of those, as announcers (admittedly former QB's) are apt to point out, do no get ruled on the scoresheet as a "dropped pass", yet the lasting impression is that the catch should have been made.

Bottom line is that Cooley is catching 62% of the balls thrown his way (so far this season).

Here's the source:

http://stats.nj.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFC&type=Receiving&rank=052&year=2010

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

[quote name=s0crates;7893663

Sure' date=' you are entitled to you opinion, and I harbor no hopes of changing your mind, but my opinion is that your opinion is wrong.[/quote]

Fixed that for you.

[SkinsTribeVA]

They have different styles of play. Cooley was a wrestler and he plays like one--not shying from contact and almost always picking up a few more yards after he's hit. He's consistent and durable. Davis was a WR--he's faster and more explosive. IMO Cooley's the better overall TE right now, but Davis has a much higher ceiling. His blocking and overall game-smarts still need improvement, but he has to get on the field for those things to improve. I think he'll be better than Cooley one day if he gets enough playing time.

[ABSTRACT]

Well, Cooley is 28, not 29 according to wikipedia. TEs are productive in their mid 30s, so that's a good 7 years of productivity we can get from Cooley.

I guess we should fire our front office and put you in charge since they must be incompetent when judging talent, because they obviously don't know what they are doing having Cooley starting ahead of Davis.

People are overrating Davis because he was one of the very few who had some production in one of our most horrible seasons last year. It's the same reason why a lot of people had high hopes for Devin Thomas this year, because he had some decent plays last year.

Seriously, if Davis was better than Cooley, he would be starting ahead of him!

Well that's good news if Cooley can play that long..Hopefully we can keep both TEs for a long time. However, as aforementioned, Davis is still 4 years younger than Cooley, more athletic, faster, stronger, cannot be covered by LBs and D linemen, and has more potential....and as I said before...once we get more big boys blocking this upcoming offseason....fans will see Davis's superior skill set at the TE position...whether they want to see it or not.

[s0crates]

Better way to look at it, imo, is catches vs. targets. I'll actually cite a source here and point out that Cooley has been targeted 45 times this season, with 28 receptions. That's 17 times where he did not make the catch. Most of those, as announcers (admittedly former QB's) are apt to point out, do no get ruled on the scoresheet as a "dropped pass", yet the lasting impression is that the catch should have been made.

Bottom line is that Cooley is catching 62% of the balls thrown his way (so far this season).

Here's the source:

http://stats.nj.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFC&type=Receiving&rank=052&year=2010

Not sure what this proves, considering McNabb is sometimes inaccurate. Look at it like this: McNabb is completing only 58% of his passes this year, but when he throws to Cooley that percentage goes up to 62%. The point should be obvious.

[ABSTRACT]

They have different styles of play. Cooley was a wrestler and he plays like one--not shying from contact and almost always picking up a few more yards after he's hit. He's consistent and durable. Davis was a WR--he's faster and more explosive. IMO Cooley's the better overall TE right now, but Davis has a much higher ceiling. His blocking and overall game-smarts still need improvement, but he has to get on the field for those things to improve. I think he'll be better than Cooley one day if he gets enough playing time.

He'll be better sooner than later (if not better right now)....Same reason Cooley did not start immediately.....Davis is better and it will be apparent very soon.

[ABSTRACT]

Not sure what this proves, considering McNabb is sometimes inaccurate. Look at it like this: McNabb is completing only 58% of his passes this year, but when he throws to Cooley that percentage goes up to 62%.

I think ALL QBs have higher QB ratings when throwing to TEs opposed to WRs...nothing ground breaking here.

[War Paint]

Well that's good news if Cooley can play that long..Hopefully we can keep both TEs for a long time. However, as aforementioned, Davis is still 4 years younger than Cooley, more athletic, faster, stronger, cannot be covered by LBs and D linemen, and has more potential....and as I said before...once we get more big boys blocking this upcoming offseason....fans will see Davis's superior skill set at the TE position...whether they want to see it or not.

So why didn't he beat out Cooley for the starting job?

[surferskin]

He'll be better sooner than later (if not better right now)....Same reason Cooley did not start immediately.....Davis is better and it will be apparent very soon.

Cooley started immediately.

[s0crates]

Fixed that for you.

Cooley started immediately.

That is how I remember it as well. Gibbs was impressed with him from day one, inserting him in the H-back spot almost right away.

I think ALL QBs have higher QB ratings when throwing to TEs opposed to WRs...nothing ground breaking here.

You have a valid point I suppose, although I would be weary of saying "ALL" with such confidence.

There are also mitigating factors to consider. How does that fact that Cooley is our biggest weapon on offense and drawing double teams effect the statistics?

[Skins Wingman]

They have different styles of play. Cooley was a wrestler and he plays like one--not shying from contact and almost always picking up a few more yards after he's hit. He's consistent and durable. Davis was a WR--he's faster and more explosive. IMO Cooley's the better overall TE right now, but Davis has a much higher ceiling. His blocking and overall game-smarts still need improvement, but he has to get on the field for those things to improve. I think he'll be better than Cooley one day if he gets enough playing time.

this guy hit it on the head

[jnhay]

Better way to look at it, imo, is catches vs. targets. I'll actually cite a source here and point out that Cooley has been targeted 45 times this season, with 28 receptions. That's 17 times where he did not make the catch. Most of those, as announcers (admittedly former QB's) are apt to point out, do no get ruled on the scoresheet as a "dropped pass", yet the lasting impression is that the catch should have been made.

Bottom line is that Cooley is catching 62% of the balls thrown his way (so far this season).

Here's the source:

http://stats.nj.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFC&type=Receiving&rank=052&year=2010

I'm not sure how that's a better stat considering how ambiguous it is. I'd venture to say that more often than not, a missed target is not a drop or at least not a good pass.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

Wow. It looks to me like you are the one getting upset.

I think what we have here is a case of belief perseverance or confirmation bias. It is a well known concept in psychology, which is basically this: People tend to hold on to their beliefs even after having those beliefs disproven.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/belief_perseverance.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Many poster have expressed their opinion, most of whom regard Cooley as better, some of whom do not, but that is not the point. The point is Cooley is better statistically, as far as drop percentage, and better in the eyes of the people who may be regarded as experts on the matter, the coaches.

Sure, you are entitled to you opinion, and I harbor no hopes of changing your mind, but in my opinion your opinion is wrong.

For the benefit of full disclosure here........did it occur to you that there may just be a slight hint of antagonistic behavior here on my part? I honestly don't care to be convinced otherwise in a topic such as this. I at first offered my opinion, which I believe to be true since it is, in fact, I, who garnered this opinion. It wasn't until I had been called "ridiculous" and that my post was "bull crap", and then dictated to that my opinion wasn't actually an opinion that I dug my proverbial heels in stated that it wasn't changing. Seeing how riled up folks became after I merely stated my opinion only propelled me to state it again, in the interest of antagonistic joy, to see how far they would go to change the PERCEPTION of one anonymous fan, over such a trivial matter.

So feel free to continue citing psychological data convincing yourself that this must be true; however, what will you say when I'm convinced otherwise?

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

Not sure what this proves, considering McNabb is sometimes inaccurate. Look at it like this: McNabb is completing only 58% of his passes this year, but when he throws to Cooley that percentage goes up to 62%. The point should be obvious.

shorter passes having a higher rate of completion notwithstanding.

[SkinsNoles21]

id like to seem the both be used ...

[ABSTRACT]

So why didn't he beat out Cooley for the starting job?

Better understanding of the playbook and dependability because of the years he put in here is the reason imo. Sort of like a comfort zone thing..

like "That's Chris ******** Cooley....yeah he's gonna start...we have no ******** receivers....we need that guy" -Mike Shanahan

I still say the Davis has a higher ceiling though....and will take Cooley's spot very soon (once we get better blocking upfront that will send them both on more routes)...Besides knowing the playbook (which can be fixed with hard work) and hands (I think they're about even on hands and dropping)....Davis supersedes Cooley in every aspect of the TE position...It's only a matter of time until Davis takes his spot....Just wait till next year. and yes we will have football next year (:

[ABSTRACT]

Cooley started immediately.

Oh....

Davis is still better lol

see post #98

[RandyHolt]

he is a better than half our WR's