jpyaks3 Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 BAQUBA, Iraq — Members of United States-allied Awakening Councils have quit or been dismissed from their positions in significant numbers in recent months, prey to an intensive recruitment campaign by the Sunni insurgency, according to government officials, current and former members of the Awakening and insurgents. Although there are no firm figures, security and political officials say hundreds of the well-disciplined fighters — many of whom have gained extensive knowledge about the American military — appear to have rejoined Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia. Beyond that, officials say that even many of the Awakening fighters still on the Iraqi government payroll, possibly thousands of them, covertly aid the insurgency. The defections have been driven in part by frustration with the Shiite-led government, which Awakening members say is intent on destroying them, as well as by pressure from Al Qaeda. The exodus has accelerated since Iraq’s inconclusive parliamentary elections in March, which have left Sunnis uncertain of retaining what little political influence they have and which appear to have provided Al Qaeda new opportunities to lure back fighters. The Awakening members’ switch in loyalties poses a new threat to Iraq’s tenuous social and political balance during the country’s ongoing political crisis and as the United States military prepares to withdraw next year. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/world/middleeast/17awakening.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp This isn't a good development, I know people love to say the surge is what turned the war or whatever but in reality it was paying off these guys. A strategy which is showing itself to be unsustainable. This is the problem with a short term fix, there was no way this was going to be sustainable in the long term with the make up of Iraqi society. Hopefully this is overblown and doesn't turn into anything more but I am not terribly hopeful of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 This is not really a surprise. We cant go in and change hundreds of years of corruption. We can only hope that we get out of there before it gets ugly again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 This is not really a surprise. We cant go in and change hundreds of years of corruption. We can only hope that we get out of there before it gets ugly again. I totally agree with you. And this time IMO, if **** does hit the fan there, we should just stay the hell out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Oh it is a sustainable path...except when you quit paying as the Iraqi govt has in many cases. You do not purchase loyalty,but ya can rent it.....failing that you must pay the costs to impose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Yeah, I'm going to disagree that it is sustainable. You need time to make a more integrated society. I know the Iraqis were paying for Sunni-Shia marriages to try an integrate them. The problem is was it given enough time to work. I could see where this is something that would really take a generation or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I no longer care what they do as long as it does not include Kuwait or Nukes. It is their country to do with as they please, we are already effectively out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Out if ya don't count 50k troops and 10's of thousands of other personnel(state dept,contractors ,advisers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brave Little Toaster Oven Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 exactly why making peace with the Taliban in Afghanistan wont work...these people have zero loyalties to anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 They have loyalties to their God Alah and how they believe life should be lived. Do you honestly believe they would give up their entire lifes belief and just 'move on'? Your turn the Countries upside down and slap their hand and say STAY! We did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 This isn't a good development, I know people love to say the surge is what turned the war or whatever but in reality it was paying off these guys. A strategy which is showing itself to be unsustainable. This is the problem with a short term fix, there was no way this was going to be sustainable in the long term with the make up of Iraqi society. Hopefully this is overblown and doesn't turn into anything more but I am not terribly hopeful of that. Paying off the insurgents was an entirely sustainable strategy. We stopped doing so when we started to hand over more and more control of the government to the Iraqi's. IT was the Iraqi government who declined to continue paying off the 180,000 former / future insurgents. It's also the Shia dominated Iraqi government which is purging suni's out of governent office which makes a new round of civil war more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Yeah, I'm going to disagree that it is sustainable. You need time to make a more integrated society. I know the Iraqis were paying for Sunni-Shia marriages to try an integrate them.The problem is was it given enough time to work. I could see where this is something that would really take a generation or two. The Iraqi government wasn't the ones who put 180,000 suni insurgents on the governmental's dime. We did that. It was one of the smartest moves Petraus made... The Iraqi government when they took control stoped paying those guys. Sadam's old soldiers with nothing better to do. It was intirely sustainable to pay those guys off. Iraq is a wealthy country.... The issue was the shia would rather give money and jobs to their own guys, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 exactly why making peace with the Taliban in Afghanistan wont work...these people have zero loyalties to anyone Only this thread is about Iraq not Afghanistan. It's about Saddams old army getting paid to play nice. A proven strategy to reduce violence in the country. Not Afghanistan or the Taliban. As for you can't negotiate with the Taliban, Tell dick cheney that... he negotiated a pipe line treaty with them when they were still in charge in afghanistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 The Iraqi government wasn't the ones who put 180,000 suni insurgents on the governmental's dime. We did that. It was one of the smartest moves Petraus made... The Iraqi government when they took control stoped paying those guys. Sadam's old soldiers with nothing better to do. It was intirely sustainable to pay those guys off. Iraq is a wealthy country.... The issue was the shia would rather give money and jobs to their own guys, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/16/iraq-sunni-shia-marriage_n_235397.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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