Eugene Robinson: Harry Reid's comments were crudely put, yet true

[Burgold]

I can't speak for other ethnic groups but I can say that even today, Hispanic minorities are still treated poorly in many, many parts of the country. Now, having said this, I believe much of why it happens falls on the shoulders of Hispanics ourselves. We could certainly be doing things better then we are today. However, having said this, it's not all on the shoulders of Hispanics. Yet, you don't see the same sort of social rules in place for Hispanics that you see for the Black Minorities. I don't know why this is but it's how our society views it.

I agree with a lot of that. This country does provide opportunity if you seize it (sometimes bodily). I agree that in some of the Latin Communities I've visited, there is also that same type of distrust and cynicism and self-perpetuating difficulty. As for the advocasy bit, some of the insular nature of the communities prevent them from getting help from the greater society. I will say that is not really the case here in DC or Mont. Co. In fact, I've heard complaints that the latinos are getting too big a piece of the pie and too much help/support/aid.

Personally, I think when it comes to race vs. opportunity in this country that it is the chicken and the egg.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree with a lot of that. This country does provide opportunity if you seize it (sometimes bodily). I agree that in some of the Latin Communities I've visited, there is also that same type of distrust and cynicism and self-perpetuating difficulty. As for the advocasy bit, some of the insular nature of the communities prevent them from getting help from the greater society. I will say that is not really the case here in DC or Mont. Co. In fact, I've heard complaints that the latinos are getting too big a piece of the pie and too much help/support/aid.

Personally, I think when it comes to race vs. opportunity in this country that it is the chicken and the egg.

My view on this is, doesn't matter.

At the end of the day, you have to overcome. No excuses, no social inadeqacies, no self depricating racial justifications.

It doesn't matter. Your life is yours to do with what you will. For some, the road will be easier. For some, the road will be more difficult but it doesn't matter. You do for you and yours and if you fail in this endevour, you have to look to yourself for reasons why. It's all on me and I am responsible for my situation in life. Fair or unfair has nothing to do with it. Only success is important.

[Burgold]

It doesn't matter. Your life is yours to do with what you will. For some, the road will be easier. For some, the road will be more difficult but it doesn't matter. You do for you and yours and if you fail in this endevour, you have to look to yourself for reasons why. It's all on me and I am responsible for my situation in life. Fair or unfair has nothing to do with it. Only success is important.

Nah, I don't buy that. I believe that's it's good for a nation to have a police force, a court system, and an army. You can't do it all by yourself. We are all tied to each other, but anyone who thinks they are an island are fooling themselves or are forgetting all the support that they get from the ocean.

[Zguy28]

I think we can all now agree that Obama is a wellspoken lightskinned retarded negro.

whew.

No, he's a long legged mack daddy, pimping black women and white women.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Nah, I don't buy that. I believe that's it's good for a nation to have a police force, a court system, and an army. You can't do it all by yourself. We are all tied to each other, but anyone who thinks they are an island are fooling themselves or are forgetting all the support that they get from the ocean.

One has nothing to do with the other. All the things you mention here are associated with being part of society. If you fail to overcome, then you are not part of society. You are confusing personal responsability with I don't know? You have to be part of society before any of the things you mention are relivant. You gotta be in the game before you can be in the game.

[Burgold]

One has nothing to do with the other. All the things you mention here are associated with being part of society. If you fail to overcome, then you are not part of society. You are confusing personal responsability with I don't know? You have to be part of society before any of the things you mention are relivant. You gotta be in the game before you can be in the game.

Absolutely not, to achieve what we are capable of we rely on an infrastructure of support from teachers to police to parents to priests to judges and lawyers. Without those, it is nearly impossible for us to reach our potential. For example, if you had to chop firewood for the winter, you would have much less time available to earn money. If you didn't have an education, you'd have less doors open to you.

Now, if you want to say that it is important that we take advantage of the supports available I'd agree, but we are all beholden to one another in countless ways. If you don't feel safe it limits the things you can pursue. If you don't have food to eat, you're unlikely to be working on solving cold fusion.

There are two simultaneous problems in America today, one is the entitlement phenomenon that every one likes talking about, but the other which is equally bad is the ingratitude/neglect of duty or shared responsibility phenomenon.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Absolutely not, to achieve what we are capable of we rely on an infrastructure of support from teachers to police to parents to priests to judges and lawyers. Without those, it is nearly impossible for us to reach our potential. For example, if you had to chop firewood for the winter, you would have much less time available to earn money. If you didn't have an education, you'd have less doors open to you.

Now, if you want to say that it is important that we take advantage of the supports available I'd agree, but we are all beholden to one another in countless ways. If you don't feel safe it limits the things you can pursue. If you don't have food to eat, you're unlikely to be working on solving cold fusion.

There are two simultaneous problems in America today, one is the entitlement phenomenon that every one likes talking about, but the other which is equally bad is the ingratitude/neglect of duty or shared responsibility phenomenon.

I do not wish to get this wrong so I will ask, what may seem to be an obtuse question.

Are you saying that a person can not succeed in life without the help of social programs?

Parents and teachers and police and whatever else, may or may not have a huge impact on a persons success. People with no parents or poor parents can still succeed. Teachers can be helpful but only if you decide to educate yourself. If you elect not to take personal advantage of this, then it's on you. At some point, regardless of personal situation, a person has to decide to be succesful or to allow life to pass by and just live off the kindness of society.

[Burgold]

I do not wish to get this wrong so I will ask, what may seem to be an obtuse question.

Are you saying that a person can not succeed in life without the help of social programs?

Kind of, I am saying that no person can reach their full potential solely on their own steam. There are exceptions: Thomas Edison was kicked out of school for being "too dumb to learn" and yet invented half the universe. Most people need someone else. The lionshare of the responsibility for who they become is theirs, but...

If it were not for the military keeping our nation safe... all of us would have very different lives.

If it were not for the police keeping our streets safe... all of us would have different lives.

If it were not for the courts seeing that those detained receive justice and a fair/impartial trial... all of us would lead different lives.

If it were not for public education providing a launching point and a foundation where people can choose to learn and grow... all of us would lead different lives.

It's not solely about you. Other people touch your life every day. From garbagemen, to paramedics, to farmers, to God save us... Politicians. If you think the world is only about what you do for yourself, then you have missed a very big point. Mutual responsibility and duty is why the United States work without it you have anarchy.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Kind of, I am saying that no person can reach their full potential solely on their own steam. There are exceptions: Thomas Edison was kicked out of school for being "too dumb to learn" and yet invented half the universe. Most people need someone else. The lionshare of the responsibility for who they become is theirs, but...

If it were not for the military keeping our nation safe... all of us would have very different lives.

If it were not for the police keeping our streets safe... all of us would have different lives.

If it were not for the courts seeing that those detained receive justice and a fair/impartial trial... all of us would lead different lives.

If it were not for public education providing a launching point and a foundation where people can choose to learn and grow... all of us would lead different lives.

It's not solely about you. Other people touch your life every day. From garbagemen, to paramedics, to farmers, to God save us... Politicians. If you think the world is only about what you do for yourself, then you have missed a very big point. Mutual responsibility and duty is why the United States work without it you have anarchy.

Again, personal responsabilty has nothing at all to do with what you are talking about. If a person decides not to become an active member of society then they don't contribute to the civil well being. They simply become a drain on said resources. You have to decide that no matter what your circumstances are in life, you are going to be a responsible, contributing member of society. The environment in which you accomplish this is a given. That's the whole point. The opportunity to succeed, no matter how difficult, is their in this country. If you don't choose to take advantage of it, that's on you and that is personal responsability.

[Burgold]

I think we're talking in parallel streams.

While I agree that how far you go is on you (mostly). I also believe that without the infrastructure and societal supports you can't make it. For example, who's likely to go further... an American doing his damndest from an upper class society or a Micronesian doing their damndest while living in a slum? Effort and personal responibility is a large puzzle piece, but it's not the only one.

[Burgold]

Another way to look at it is was Coach Zorn's ultimate success as the Head Coach of the Washington Redskins solely dependent on how hard he coached? Did the Front Office not matter, did injuries not matter, did the effort of his assisstant coaches not matter? Did the players not matter?

Was it only about Zorn and the sweat he put in?

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think we're talking in parallel streams.

While I agree that how far you go is on you (mostly). I also believe that without the infrastructure and societal supports you can't make it. For example, who's likely to go further... an American doing his damndest from an upper class society or a Micronesian doing their damndest while living in a slum? Effort and personal responibility is a large puzzle piece, but it's not the only one.

This is a good example of what I am trying to say. As a Hispanic who came from a very, very humble beginning (not fishing for sympathy here), I can not afford to view things in terms of how easy or difficult it might be. At the end of the day, I either succeed or I fall back into the sorry position in live a poor effort will get me. It doesn't matter how hard or how easy it is, how fair or unfair. It only matters that I succeed. Failure represents a life I want no part of and this is the attitude I and those like me must have in order to be successful in life. All the rest means nothing unless I reach a point in life that a philosophical conversation, such as this, is able to be had with no worries of how I am able to be succesful.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Another way to look at it is was Coach Zorn's ultimate success as the Head Coach of the Washington Redskins solely dependent on how hard he coached? Did the Front Office not matter, did injuries not matter, did the effort of his assisstant coaches not matter? Did the players not matter?

Was it only about Zorn and the sweat he put in?

You assume that being a succesful head coach for the Washington Redskinz represents success in life. Jim Zorn has had a succesful NFL career as a starting QB. He has reached the NFL as a head coach. He is a college graduate. He is a succesful businessman. He has a happy marriage and is a father of four. If Jim Zorn never coached the Skinz, he would be a success in life and a contribution to society.