Rooney Rule was put in place for a good reason

[fansince62]

The Rooney Rule is unnecessary. Owners will and have always hired minorities fairly. Just like with slavery, the Civil War and emancipation proclomation were unnecessary because the South was totally going to stop engaging in slavery on its own time. No need to force them to be fair/humane. And in the workplace today, affirmative action is completely unnecessary and it is insulting to minorities like women because we all know that a man and a woman who do the same job will get paid the same wage. It's so wrong to try to force the opportunity of fairness to all.

\sarcasm

yuppers...slavery and hiring football coaches are so similar! you sure nailed that one....

we'll let slip the comedic aspects of "forcing fairness".......

my guess is you need a tad more hemlock in your next drink

[Bang]

Here is what was said by the Steelers on the topic:

The coach who might be the Rooney Rule's greatest advertisement didn't benefit from it. "Let me say this: Mike Tomlin was not part of the Rooney Rule," Rooney said. "We had already interviewed Ron Rivera [then the Bears' defensive coordinator], and so that fulfilled the obligation," Rooney said. "We went on, had heard about Mike, called him in and talked to him. He was very impressive."

Thanks. He has obviously earned the job, and his accomplishment shows he deserves it. I have the highest respect for Tomlin, he strikes me as a great leader.

~Bang

[flock53]

I am a minority and I see it as racism. "Look, our minority coaches aren't good enough to interview for HC jobs so lets force teams to do it"

I dont think there's racism anywhere in the ownership and FO ranks in the NFL. The best coach will get the job, whether he's black, white, red, blue or brown.

Thank you, its good intended, but NOT a good reason. Actually making a mockery of it, especially now that they are finding loopholes in it. Problem is also that these minority prospects that KNOW they will not be getting the job, should decline these mockeries. They hide behind the Tomlins and Singletarys, especially Tomlin that inherited a GREAT team and won EARLY. No playoffs this year. Let this play out before the NFL pats themselves on the back.

[chipwhich]

yuppers...slavery and hiring football coaches are so similar! you sure nailed that one....

we'll let slip the comedic aspects of "forcing fairness".......

my guess is you need a tad more hemlock in your next drink

Maybe you didn't understand his /sarcasm at the end of the post.

[Jeff in D.C.]

I definitely think the Rooney Rule needs to be tweaked, however there are a few things to keep in mind for those of you who are strongly against it.

First off, who knows, the minority who gets an interview may surprise the team that he's interviewing with and actually get the job. Even if he doesn't, it gives minorities interviewing experience that they can use to their advantage in future interviews. I'm sure alot of us here have been on interviews in which we didn't end up getting the job, but we were better off for the experience.

Secondly, word spreads around the league about guys who get interviewed and do really well. You never know, a GM might call another GM of a team who he knows is looking for a smart, young coach and suggests that he give the minority an interview based on how he interviewed with the first team. And then there could be a domino effect of other teams interviewing the person because he did so well in the other interviews even if he wasn't hired.

Third, it gets the minority "in the door" so to speak and get an opportunity to get an interview that they might not have gotten if not for the rule. Plus anyone can turn down an interview if they don't feel respected in the first place.

As I said, the rule needs to be tweaked to make the interviews more meaningful somehow, but overall the rule has been beneficial to minorities.

[fansince62]

Maybe you didn't understand his /sarcasm at the end of the post.

I did...only too well.....

[P007]

The Rooney rule is necessary for everyone to get a chance to interview. By everyone, I mean all ethnicities. Black, Hispanic, Indian, Native American, Chinese all should be given a chance to interview for a head coaching position in the NFL. The Rooney rule has no bite, it doesn't even have teeth.

The token interview Jerry Gray and Leslie Frazier gave was embarassing to both men but for very different reasons. Gray has been caught in a lie whether he wanted to admit it or not, he interview for his colleagues' job even though he knew he wouldn't get it. Frazier wasn't even given a fair chance to interview. Everyone and their momma knew that Carroll got the job.

Goodell has let two franchises get away with a social wrong. Will he dish out punishment? Absolutely not. He's a fraud. He's quick to punish players but doesn't go after owners when they are blatantly wrong. As much as I love the Redskins and the recent hiring of Shanahan, they should've been punished. Fair is fair. Goodell knows who is padding his expense account and everything Paul Tagliabue and Rooney Family worked for is being torn down.

Another thing to consider is that this Rooney rule has unfortunately divided more than united. Ron Rivera and Norm Chow would make great head coaches if given the proper interview. I truly believe that. Chow has built some great offenses in Tennesse and USC. Rivera has a great defensive mind, he's gotten SD and Chicago to perform at its best. The crime in all this drama is that both Gray and Frazier were used and abused and weren't even kissed afterwards.

:helmet:

CP26, you are a 100% correct. I am African American and I have been passed over jobs that I was overly qualifeid for. I work for a company and I was part of the hiring commitee that was doing the interviews for the person that was to become my supervisor. The top 2 candidates were an African American woman and a White woman. During the interview their was toatal bias and discrimation that was done by the director of my company towards the minority candidate. It was so blatant and obvious that many among us that were on the commitee voiced our displeasure. The job in the end went to the white woman, even though the minority candidate had more experience and had the better qualifcations for the position. Needless to say the minority candidate has filed a lawsuit and our department has been investigated. With the investigation brought about some changes in our hiring practices. Such as, all supervisors are required to take classes on how to interview candidates. Considering that I am a HR rep for the company I work for it was good to see some of these changes, but as a company we have a long way to go. The Rooney Rule is a good rule, it does need more bite though. So for all of you people that thinks race doesn't paly a factor, it does. Even in 2010.

[P007]

What is that suppose to mean? We as a society cater to minorities so much we acutually hand them jobs. Yes HAND THEM JOBS! I am in contracting I have lost so many jobs due to minority clauses and deals it is a joke. The best qualified person or best price should get the job. THE END.

Well it balances out, I am African American and I have been passed over for jobs that I was overly qualified for by white candidates. Cry me a river.

[Bang]

CP26, you are a 100% correct. I am African American and I have been passed over jobs that I was overly qualifeid for. I work for a company and I was part of the hiring commitee that was doing the interviews for the person that was to become my supervisor. The top 2 candidates were an African American woman and a White woman. During the interview their was toatal bias and discrimation that was done by the director of my company towards the minority candidate. It was so blatant and obvious that many among us that were on the commitee voiced our displeasure. The job in the end went to the white woman, even though the minority candidate had more experience and had the better qualifcations for the position. Needless to say the minority candidate has filed a lawsuit and our department has been investigated. With the investigation brought about some changes in our hiring practices. Such as, all supervisors are required to take classes on how to interview candidates. Considering that I am a HR rep for the company I work for it was good to see some of these changes, but as a company we have a long way to go. The Rooney Rule is a good rule, it does need more bite though. So for all of you people that thinks race doesn't paly a factor, it does. Even in 2010.

It does out here in the real world, but the NFL isn't comparable to you going for a job among the prejudices that exist on a much greater scale out here. There's only 32 of these jobs on the entire planet. And the reward for winning is HUGE.

The rule had a place when it was implemented, but it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that minorities can win, and that is what drives the 32 people making the decisions.

The NFL head coaching job is not comparable to anything you may face out here with the rest of us. The problems in the real world just don't apply here. These are elite jobs filled by men who already have elite jobs in the assistant ranks. If they can win, they'll get the job. Mike Tomlin, Lovie Smith, Tony Dungy and now Jim Caldwell have emphatically proven it in a very short period of time.

And that kind of proof is all the owners need to see to realize the best man should get the job, regardless. In the history of integration in the league, from players on up, success is what kicks down the door. One team takes a chance, and after everyone else sees the success of a Marion Motley or a Jim Brown or a Steve Van Buren , the door is flung wide open by all teams except by the ignorant few who put race ahead of winning,, noted racist George Preston Marshall was a loser for a loooong time. Bobby Mitchell and Charley Taylor were very instrumental in changing that, and as Marshall illustrates, even in times of institutional ignorance, winning forces even the most stubborn of narrow minds to relent. These days are not comparable to those days, and the rewards for winning are much much higher. I believe the best men do get interviewed now. If a coach shows ability, he gets noticed.

~Bang

[fansince62]

Wasn't Pittsburgh dead set on hiring Grimm as their head coach after Cowher retired? And wasn't it solely due to the Rooney Rule they decided to interview Tomlin, where he was so impressive that they couldn't NOT hire him. Now they've got yet another super bowl because of him.

not so fast. how do you think they got around to asking Tomlin? why him and not just any check-in-the-block minority? I remember Holmgren saying last week that he always keeps a list of promising assistants/coaches. I suspect all good teams do. like any profession...the word gets around in professional and social circles about who has "it" and who doesn't. Indianapolis snapped up Dungy pretty quickly if memory serves.

your idea forces one to assume that the Steelers had no prior insights to how capable Tomlin was...that somehow his abilities were a well kept secret. and that...even knowing this...they would not have interviewed ANY minority candidates were it not for the Rooney rule. ha! The team whose owner the rule is named after not interviewing a minority candidate!....that's pretty funny actually.

btw...Tomlin coached the team to a SB...credit where credit is due. but that Steeler organization has been set up for success for a long, long time. Tomlin walked into a good situation - a team that had won the SB just a few years previously.

[chipwhich]

btw...Tomlin coached the team to a SB...credit where credit is due. but that Steeler organization has been set up for success for a long, long time. Tomlin walked into a good situation - a team that had won the SB just a few years previously.

See Indy Colts current coach.

[Monrovia_Redskin]

Maybe the hispanic, asian, white and middle eastern players should get together and claim racism in the NFL. Why are there so many black players in the game compared to other races? Why does a team with a white coach have to coach so many black players? You could g both way with the questions. I don't see any racism in the NFL in terms of coaches. The best coach will get the job. Throw the Rooney Rule in the garbage dump fr all I care. Its no longer needed. As a white man I'm offended that I never see any white CB's in the league ! blah

[dy44]

The Rooney rule did have good intentions! It was also a way for Mr Rooney whos family is the biggest white trash rednecks I have ever met to get loyalty from the black man. I am 1/16 cherokee and the rest white and I grew up in the hood. Teams should not be forced to interview someone because of their race. Its 2010 and we still have rednecks wearing hoods and we still have black folks that dont like white people. You cant force the two to be involved with one another. Its like forcing every team to have a black and white qb. Dont force it let the best man win regardless of race. How about we make teams interview a native american, Oh thats right there are not many of us left cause they were killed and robbed of there land. This country was built on a bunch of crap. Everyone of a darker skin that was involved in this nations beginings was lied to. By the way, I do not find redskins offensive because I have never seen a red person.

[fansince62]

See Indy Colts current coach.

no argument here. one reason why if shanahan succeeds - it will be all the more impressive.....

[fansince62]

The Rooney rule did have good intentions! It was also a way for Mr Rooney whos family is the biggest white trash rednecks I have ever met to get loyalty from the black man. I am 1/16 cherokee and the rest white and I grew up in the hood. Teams should not be forced to interview someone because of their race. Its 2010 and we still have rednecks wearing hoods and we still have black folks that dont like white people. You cant force the two to be involved with one another. Its like forcing every team to have a black and white qb. Dont force it let the best man win regardless of race. How about we make teams interview a native american, Oh thats right there are not many of us left cause they were killed and robbed of there land. This country was built on a bunch of crap. Everyone of a darker skin that was involved in this nations beginings was lied to. By the way, I do not find redskins offensive because I have never seen a red person.

actually...the country was built on a Constitution and Bill of Rights that operated to rectify injustice as defined (not interpreted) by those documents. unlike....say....the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, etc., etc.

[#98QBKiller]

The Rooney Rule is BS. It's unnecessary red tape in this day and time and the best man is going to win the job even if he's not a minority. Stipulating a team to interview a minority coach that isn't really in their consideration is a waste of time for everyone involved.

[Fergasun]

I disagree that it is a sham. I only read the first 40 pages on page 1, so forgive me if someone covered this between post 41 and 89.

One advice people have gotten regarding jobs is "practice, practice, practice" as in practice on your interview skills. The Rooney Rule will allow a minority 1 more opportunity to practice on their interview skills. Additionally, they will have an opportunity to get in front of an NFL owner; and a positive interview might generate positive verbal communication within the NFL ownership group. You never know with the NFL as well; today's hiring of Pete Carroll in 2 years could turn into the firing of Pete Carroll, and Leslie Frazier will have a leg up with familiarity of interviewing Paul Allen already.

I absolutely think it helps... even getting the name Jerry Gray in the news as someone interviewing with the Redskins, perhaps there will be another team around who is interviewing a coach, and they think; Jerry Gray interviewed, maybe I'll think of him. Or hey, I thought that guy was a great CB... didn't realize he was interested in coaching as well.

[DallasSucks19922010]

"Affirmative action strikes again!!" --Rush Limbaugh

[fansince62]

CP26, you are a 100% correct. I am African American and I have been passed over jobs that I was overly qualifeid for. I work for a company and I was part of the hiring commitee that was doing the interviews for the person that was to become my supervisor. The top 2 candidates were an African American woman and a White woman. During the interview their was toatal bias and discrimation that was done by the director of my company towards the minority candidate. It was so blatant and obvious that many among us that were on the commitee voiced our displeasure. The job in the end went to the white woman, even though the minority candidate had more experience and had the better qualifcations for the position. Needless to say the minority candidate has filed a lawsuit and our department has been investigated. With the investigation brought about some changes in our hiring practices. Such as, all supervisors are required to take classes on how to interview candidates. Considering that I am a HR rep for the company I work for it was good to see some of these changes, but as a company we have a long way to go. The Rooney Rule is a good rule, it does need more bite though. So for all of you people that thinks race doesn't paly a factor, it does. Even in 2010.

yes race does play a factor. and I have seen folks with mixed parentage list racial characteristics when it suited their purposes. and many whites and/or males have lost out on job opportunities based almost exclusively on goals like increasing diversity. and I don't see too many crackers on BET. so what? the dynamic is continually changing. we have passed the point where we need some xxxx regulatory agency controlling behaviour. we have had enough of that. we don't need to legislate goodness. unless, of course, we can also legislate accountability.

[#98QBKiller]

CP26, you are a 100% correct. I am African American and I have been passed over jobs that I was overly qualifeid for. I work for a company and I was part of the hiring commitee that was doing the interviews for the person that was to become my supervisor. The top 2 candidates were an African American woman and a White woman. During the interview their was toatal bias and discrimation that was done by the director of my company towards the minority candidate. It was so blatant and obvious that many among us that were on the commitee voiced our displeasure. The job in the end went to the white woman, even though the minority candidate had more experience and had the better qualifcations for the position. Needless to say the minority candidate has filed a lawsuit and our department has been investigated. With the investigation brought about some changes in our hiring practices. Such as, all supervisors are required to take classes on how to interview candidates. Considering that I am a HR rep for the company I work for it was good to see some of these changes, but as a company we have a long way to go. The Rooney Rule is a good rule, it does need more bite though. So for all of you people that thinks race doesn't paly a factor, it does. Even in 2010.

Don't use the term "African-American" and then turn around in the same sentence and call someone "white."

You'd better start calling them "European-American" or "Caucasian" or start using the term "black" as well.

[P007]

It does out here in the real world, but the NFL isn't comparable to you going for a job among the prejudices that exist on a much greater scale out here. There's only 32 of these jobs on the entire planet. And the reward for winning is HUGE.

The rule had a place when it was implemented, but it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that minorities can win, and that is what drives the 32 people making the decisions.

The NFL head coaching job is not comparable to anything you may face out here with the rest of us. The problems in the real world just don't apply here. These are elite jobs filled by men who already have elite jobs in the assistant ranks. If they can win, they'll get the job. Mike Tomlin, Lovie Smith, Tony Dungy and now Jim Caldwell have emphatically proven it in a very short period of time.

And that kind of proof is all the owners need to see to realize the best man should get the job, regardless. In the history of integration in the league, from players on up, success is what kicks down the door. One team takes a chance, and after everyone else sees the success of a Marion Motley or a Jim Brown or a Steve Van Buren , the door is flung wide open by all teams except by the ignorant few who put race ahead of winning,, noted racist George Preston Marshall was a loser for a loooong time. Bobby Mitchell and Charley Taylor were very instrumental in changing that, and as Marshall illustrates, even in times of institutional ignorance, winning forces even the most stubborn of narrow minds to relent. These days are not comparable to those days, and the rewards for winning are much much higher. I believe the best men do get interviewed now. If a coach shows ability, he gets noticed.

~Bang

I hear what you are saying Bang, but the same good ole boys run this league. How does a constant loser like Wade Phillips or Norv Turner keep getting jobs when there is a very strong possibility that Raheem Morris could lose his job, only after one season? Even with progress being made, the field is still slanted. Even you would have to agree with that.

[fansince62]

I hear what you are saying Bang, but the same good ole boys run this league. How does a constant loser like Wade Phillips or Norv Turner keep getting jobs when there is a very strong possibility that Raheem Morris could lose his job, only after one season? Even with progress being made, the field is still slanted. Even you would have to agree with that.

oh please. jim mora was fired after one season. marty schot - a successful coach - after one season...another after going 14 and 2! jim zorn after two. but lovey smith is still hanging on season after losing season. and Tomlin will be back. and Crennel lasted longer than one losing season. losers are fired. that one seems pretty color blind to me.

how long has marvin lewis been in cinci?

[CAPT_CHAOS47]

I am a minority and I see it as racism. "Look, our minority coaches aren't good enough to interview for HC jobs so lets force teams to do it"

I dont think there's racism anywhere in the ownership and FO ranks in the NFL. The best coach will get the job, whether he's black, white, red, blue or brown.

I agree...The rule is a insult..I myself am a minority.:saber:

[fansince62]

the key...if we have to walk down this road....is getting minority DCs and OCs who can then demonstrate excellence (like Tomlin did). that appears to be the pool most often dipped into for new talent. the college ranks route hasn't panned out all that well.

[Dark Acre]

It's one thing to hire a proven Super Bowl winner -- how can that be racism??? -- and it's another to hire a white retread loser b/c of the "coaching fraternity". I have no doubt that if Snyder believed a black coach could win the SB, he'd hire him.