If we draft a QB we can sit him his first year

[SkinsHokieFan]

Forget Jason Campbell strong, his arm isn't even Campbell Brown from CNN strong. He's also 100% shotgun, and has no experience in a pro-style offense. Those are the things that IMO make Clausen a better prospect.

Bah, I have argued for Bradford too much and argued these same points too much

Just read this thread

[Redskinzfan30]

You will be. His release, smarts and ability to throw on the run will be a perfect fit for Shanny.

His arm isn't Jason Campbell strong, but thats not nearly as important as being an on time very accurate passer in the 21st century NFL

Just give up SHK we'll never convince them that QB or Bradford is right. I'm just giving up for tonight. We'll all see in April.

[Chopper Dave]

1) The rookie scale will be phased in, according to reports from people like Mort. You won't go from 40 million dollar bonuses to 10 million dollar bonuses over night

2) Who knows where we will be picking next year and who the prospects are. When you have a guy like Bradford who has the pin point accuracy, quick release, and intelligence, you grab him when you got the chance

3) No reason for 1st round tenders in FA. This is where the scouting dept needs to find the right fit for the Shanahan offense

Ok. Third round tenders, then. Great.

Maybe you're right about the rookie scale, but between not picking top 5, and having some sort of pay scale, I'd rather take a QB next year, especially if we have a shot at Jake Locker.

Also, Jake Locker aside, it's not so much what we can get next year at QB as much as it is what we can get this year everywhere else. We can trade down to the middle of the first, pick up a second, and because of the depth at every other position than QB, we can end up with a top 5 talent on the line and a first round talent at some other position.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Just give up SHK we'll never convince them that QB or Bradford is right. I'm just giving up for tonight. We'll all see in April.

Na, its a fun debate to have which I look forward to throughout the offseason

Like many draft picks though, when you have this kind of forum they get typecasted

Bradford's "typecast" for the critics is "weak armed, gimmick offense, always in shot gun and brittle as glass"

It'll take a little time, so I'll just keep pulling video and facts when I am not as lazy as I am tonight

[Chopper Dave]

Bah, I have argued for Bradford too much and argued these same points too much

Just read this thread

Maybe you're right. I'm disinclined to believe so, but it's irrelevant; the bottom line is we're going to have to pay a ****-ton to roll the dice on Bradford (or Clausen, or anyone else) at #4. We should trade down. If Bradford is there, take him then (though I'd prefer someone else).

[SkinsHokieFan]

Also, Jake Locker aside, it's not so much what we can get next year at QB as much as it is what we can get this year everywhere else. We can trade down to the middle of the first, pick up a second, and because of the depth at every other position than QB, we can end up with a top 5 talent on the line and a first round talent at some other position.

Here is the one thing we as a fan base have forgotten, or simply ignore

The 21st century NFL is a QB driven leauge. By far. The best teams year in year out have the best QB play. Look at the Colts with Manning and without Manning, as an example

As much as I wish it was like the 1980s and 90s, where you could stick Mark Rypien behind a sentential o-line, it no longer is.

Thats why the sooner we get our guy, the better as he will have more time to develop under Shanny

This team has so many holes and issues, it'll take at least 2 offseasons to get us back to competitive

[Chopper Dave]

Na, its a fun debate to have which I look forward to throughout the offseason

Like many draft picks though, when you have this kind of forum they get typecasted

Bradford's "typecast" for the critics is "weak armed, gimmick offense, always in shot gun and brittle as glass"

It'll take a little time, so I'll just keep pulling video and facts when I am not as lazy as I am tonight

I guess another word for typecast is scouting report .

Even if the "typecast" isn't true, he's not an elite enough prospect to justify the money we'd have to pay and the draft equity we would be giving up by taking him at #4. Few are in a draft this strong. I don't even know that the two top 5 QBs last year would be worth it.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I guess another word for typecast is scouting report .

Even if the "typecast" isn't true, he's not an elite enough prospect to justify the money we'd have to pay and the draft equity we would be giving up by taking him at #4. Few are in a draft this strong. I don't even know that the two top 5 QBs last year would be worth it.

Its a tough decision, I agree with you. If for example the 49ers are trading both first round picks to move up, you gotta seriously consider it.

Lots of stuff to think about between today and the draft

BTW, good to see you back on the board posting regularly.

[Chopper Dave]

Here is the one thing we as a fan base have forgotten, or simply ignore

The 21st century NFL is a QB driven leauge. By far. The best teams year in year out have the best QB play. Look at the Colts with Manning and without Manning, as an example

As much as I wish it was like the 1980s and 90s, where you could stick Mark Rypien behind a sentential o-line, it no longer is.

Thats why the sooner we get our guy, the better as he will have more time to develop under Shanny

This team has so many holes and issues, it'll take at least 2 offseasons to get us back to competitive

I agree fundamentally. I just don't think Bradford is the guy. Plus, even if there isn't anyone next year who is head and shoulders better, the quality available at every other spot in next year's draft will certainly be lower. We should worry about quantity in this draft, because no matter where we pick the quality will be there. That might not be the case next year. It might be worth it to package picks next year to move up and get someone like Locker.

[ciscofan]

It'll take a little time, so I'll just keep pulling video and facts when I am not as lazy as I am tonight

As much as I hate to say it, you have made me a Bradford fan. I'm not a BoB, because I don't like the nickname, but I do support the team drafting him.

I would still be more than content if they drafted Claussen as well.

[skinsfan190]

Yes you can sit him the first year. I know the QB would get 30 million guaranteed, but you can't put him out there with the sorry offensive line we have. Guys like Carson Palmer, Rivers, and Rodgers sat. Obviously 2 of the 3 have a really good QB in front of them.

I posted this in another thread, but it fits in this discussion also

Here is my plan

Here is the Blueprint:

This is if no CBA is reached. This approach cant really include FA as much because the class is much weaker.

Hire Shanahan

I think he will draft his QB whether it's Clausen or Bradford 4th Overall

Keep Jason Campbell to start this season

Trade Laron Landry for a 2nd and 5th

Need draft picks are Laron isnt the playmaker we all hoped. He is just a hard hitting strong safety. Personally I'd perfer a better tackling Horton at SS and a 2nd and 5th round pick.

Trade Carlos Rogers for a 3rd round pick

He will be a Restricted Free Agent so hopefully a team will give up a 3rd to sign him. We might could get more, but for now I wont be greedy.

Keep Chris Cooley. Tough decision here, but I think Shanahan can really utilize both TEs.

Resign Reed Doughty, Rocky Mac, Hunter "the punter" Smith, Kendric Golston

Release Randel El, Todd Collins, Clinton Portis, Randy Thomas, Cornelius Griffin, Mike Sellers

The no cap really lets us dispose of these high priced guys

Overall some of the team Cancers and old Veterans got to go.

Now as far as the Draft now we have plenty of picks to work with.

O yeah another point about Shanahans scheme. He doesnt draft oline that high because their normally undersized. around 290 to 310. Agil and quick feet. Guys like a Jeremy Zuttah in 2008 slipped to the 3rd because he is primary a zone blocking guy. A very good one too.

1. Jimmy Clausen/Sam Bradford

2. Javhid Best RB Cal

2. Charles Brown OT USC (could drop because his size/Bryan Bulaga OT Iowa (JR-could drop like Britton did last year)

3. Mike Johnson OG Alabama/Rodney Hudson OG FSU

4. Selvish Capers RT West Virginia

5. Eric Olsen, C, Notre Dame

5. Jacoby Ford Wr Clemson/ DeMarco Murray RB Oklahoma

7. Patrick Trahan Olb Ole Miss

I know some may think I crazy with some players falling to us, but it happens every year. Who though Macho Harris would go in the 5th. Steve Slaton late 3rd. Carl Nicks late 5th. Teshard choice 4th round.

Obviously yall get my drift here. Young at offensive skill positions and offensive line.

In addition to this, we pick up low priced, veteran role players.

What ya'll think

[Oldskool]

The facts don't back up drafting a QB without the OL first.

http://extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=7184792&postcount=193

Sorry peeps.

[Chopper Dave]

Its a tough decision, I agree with you. If for example the 49ers are trading both first round picks to move up, you gotta seriously consider it.

Lots of stuff to think about between today and the draft

BTW, good to see you back on the board posting regularly.

You'd have to. It's just too much to give up. I guess if you're convinced Bradford is the guy, it's one thing; I'm not, and I don't think many people in the league are. Now, again, if he comes out and wows people at his workouts, things could change. But as it stands now, it's just not worth it. Forget two firsts, even with a first and a second it's worth moving down.

And yeah, it's good being back on more frequently. Having graduated and not yet moved on to graduate/law school yet, I have much more free time.

[Redskinzfan30]

The facts don't back up drafting a QB without the OL first.

http://extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=7184792&postcount=193

Sorry peeps.

We all get you need an O-Line but again if we sit the rookie I don't see how he's going to get killed sitting on the bench.

[Oldskool]

We all get you need an O-Line but again if we sit the rookie I don't see how he's going to get killed sitting on the bench.

6 draft picks in 2010, missing 4 starters on the OL, limited FA due to the CBA being gone and multiple holes to fill.

How does any of that say "take QB" to you? That's the point.

[Chopper Dave]

Yes you can sit him the first year. I know the QB would get 30 million guaranteed, but you can't put him out there with the sorry offensive line we have. Guys like Carson Palmer, Rivers, and Rodgers sat. Obviously 2 of the 3 have a really good QB in front of them.

I posted this in another thread, but it fits in this discussion also

Here is my plan

Here is the Blueprint:

This is if no CBA is reached. This approach cant really include FA as much because the class is much weaker.

Hire Shanahan

I think he will draft his QB whether it's Clausen or Bradford 4th Overall

Keep Jason Campbell to start this season

Trade Laron Landry for a 2nd and 5th

Need draft picks are Laron isnt the playmaker we all hoped. He is just a hard hitting strong safety. Personally I'd perfer a better tackling Horton at SS and a 2nd and 5th round pick.

Trade Carlos Rogers for a 3rd round pick

He will be a Restricted Free Agent so hopefully a team will give up a 3rd to sign him. We might could get more, but for now I wont be greedy.

Keep Chris Cooley. Tough decision here, but I think Shanahan can really utilize both TEs.

Resign Reed Doughty, Rocky Mac, Hunter "the punter" Smith, Kendric Golston

Release Randel El, Todd Collins, Clinton Portis, Randy Thomas, Cornelius Griffin, Mike Sellers

The no cap really lets us dispose of these high priced guys

Overall some of the team Cancers and old Veterans got to go.

Now as far as the Draft now we have plenty of picks to work with.

O yeah another point about Shanahans scheme. He doesnt draft oline that high because their normally undersized. around 290 to 310. Agil and quick feet. Guys like a Jeremy Zuttah in 2008 slipped to the 3rd because he is primary a zone blocking guy. A very good one too.

1. Jimmy Clausen/Sam Bradford

2. Javhid Best RB Cal

2. Charles Brown OT USC (could drop because his size/Bryan Bulaga OT Iowa (JR-could drop like Britton did last year)

3. Mike Johnson OG Alabama/Rodney Hudson OG FSU

4. Selvish Capers RT West Virginia

5. Eric Olsen, C, Notre Dame

5. Jacoby Ford Wr Clemson/ DeMarco Murray RB Oklahoma

7. Patrick Trahan Olb Ole Miss

I know some may think I crazy with some players falling to us, but it happens every year. Who though Macho Harris would go in the 5th. Steve Slaton late 3rd. Carl Nicks late 5th. Teshard choice 4th round.

Obviously yall get my drift here. Young at offensive skill positions and offensive line.

In addition to this, we pick up low priced, veteran role players.

What ya'll think

Unrealistic. We may get a 3rd for Rogers, but we kinda need him at CB, and a 3rd rounder or whomever he has behind him won't make up for his lost presence. There's no way we get a 2nd and 5th for Landry. Maybe a 3rd. Maybe. There's a reason you don't see trades like that in the NFL; it's hard to value players because no one is ever willing to give a team the equivalent draft pick for the player. Therefore, teams are rarely willing to trade the players, because they're not getting fair value. It's a vicious cycle.

My ideal offseason would see us trading down to the middle of the first and picking up a second rounder, then taking BPA at every pick, filling holes on the line, at RB, at DB, and maybe even at QB.

[Chopper Dave]

6 draft picks in 2010, missing 4 starters on the OL, limited FA due to the CBA being gone and multiple holes to fill.

How does any of that say "take QB" to you? That's the point.

Add in the fact that this draft is the strongest in a long time at Oline, DB, RB, etc., and you hit the nail right on the head.

[Chicken Fried]

Drafting a QB to sit is a waste, considering we need to draft OL to protect him. Not to mention that Campbell may not be the long term answer but he's put up career numbers playing behind the 29th worst OL in the league.

Campbell haters cannot refute that. Those that want to draft a QB cannot refute that. Drafting a QB when you have a QB with 51 starts, under contract and no offensive line is a wasted pick.

The whole point of the thread is that it would take 2 years to rebuild this line, and the rookie doesn't have to play until it's ready. It takes longer for a QB to develop than an OLman, so let's start now and give him time. Drafting a QB to sit is a waste, you say? It's never a bad idea to let a rookie QB sit a year or two and learn the ropes before being thrown to the wolves.

Just because JC has 51 starts doesn't tell me that he's a good option like you imply. In fact, think about it. Does a guy who has had 51 starts and is still not solidified as a super option really instill confidence in you?

By the way, we have other picks besides the first to address OL. We'll have to keep building next year, too because this isn't a one-year project. Anyway, great OLs are not built by many first rounders. Someone recently did a thread about how they are usually made of no-name, late round picks yet their QBs are elite guys, and most elite QBs are taken in the first. A thread was also done on this topic of when to take a QB. You have to go first if you want a decent shot at him turning into something good.

[Chicken Fried]

Add in the fact that this draft is the strongest in a long time at Oline, DB, RB, etc., and you hit the nail right on the head.

Yeah, so a lot of talent will be pushed down which we can grab in rounds other than the first. Its a win-win.

[Redskinzfan30]

6 draft picks in 2010, missing 4 starters on the OL, limited FA due to the CBA being gone and multiple holes to fill.

How does any of that say "take QB" to you? That's the point.

Because it's not often that you pick in the top 5 of the draft and when you do you get the guy that will help you win the most. That guy being a franchise QB. Add that to JC not being a franchise QB and you have your answer of why it says take a QB. Also not all OL will be RFA and with it being an uncapped year some teams may cut guys that are overpaid. Shanahan uses a zone blocking scheme which requires smaller linemen. Some of them can be had later in the draft. We could trade back with our 2nd pick and acquire 2 2nds or a 2nd and a 3rd. I'm all for getting our franchise QB. I feel good that our FO will make the right choices now. If it was Cerrato making the choices then I could see you not wanting a QB. If Cerrato was still here he was going to go QB 1st round and RB 2nd round.

[skinsfan190]

Unrealistic. We may get a 3rd for Rogers, but we kinda need him at CB, and a 3rd rounder or whomever he has behind him won't make up for his lost presence. There's no way we get a 2nd and 5th for Landry. Maybe a 3rd. Maybe. There's a reason you don't see trades like that in the NFL; it's hard to value players because no one is ever willing to give a team the equivalent draft pick for the player. Therefore, teams are rarely willing to trade the players, because they're not getting fair value. It's a vicious cycle.

My ideal offseason would see us trading down to the middle of the first and picking up a second rounder, then taking BPA at every pick, filling holes on the line, at RB, at DB, and maybe even at QB.

Anytime a team would give up a 2nd and a 6th for Jason Taylor, I know we can get that for.... wait :doh:

I know Vinny Ceratto isnt the GM for any other team, but Laron was a top 10 pick. He is very gifted athlete. Hopefully the team wont fully know how immature he is until after the trade. He is a SS, so hopefully the team will no that and ignore the fact that he misses many tackles, get beat on double moves often, launchs himself at opponents and normally misses.:doh:

Hopefully they will just see his potential.

[Chopper Dave]

The whole point of the thread is that it would take 2 years to rebuild this line, and the rookie doesn't have to play until it's ready. It takes longer for a QB to develop than an OLman, so let's start now and give him time. Drafting a QB to sit is a waste, you say? It's never a bad idea to let a rookie QB sit a year or two and learn the ropes before being thrown to the wolves.

Just because JC has 51 starts doesn't tell me that he's a good option like you imply. In fact, think about it. Does a guy who has had 51 starts and is still not solidified as a super option really instill confidence in you?

By the way, we have other picks besides the first to address OL. We'll have to keep building next year, too because this isn't a one-year project. Anyway, great OLs are not built by many first rounders. Someone recently did a thread about how they are usually made of no-name, late round picks yet their QBs are elite guys, and most elite QBs are taken in the first. A thread was also done on this topic of when to take a QB. You have to go first if you want a decent shot at him turning into something good.

While it's true that most elite offensive lines are not comprised of 1st rounders, it is a fact that the most elite offensive linemen ARE 1st rounders. And your whole pattern of causation is skewed; just because a QB is taken in the 1st doesn't mean he will be elite. You probably know that. But when you need QB and OL, and there is a clear elite OL available, and no clear elite QB, you don't take a QB early in the 1st just because the teams that happen to be successful recently have 1st round elite QBs. Hell, of the 12 QBs in the playoffs this year, how many are early 1st rounders? McNabb, Manning, Palmer, Rivers, and Sanchez. So like half, basically. That's not really a ringing endorsement.

[Chopper Dave]

Anytime a team would give up a 2nd and a 6th for Jason Taylor, I know we can get that for.... wait :doh:

I know Vinny Ceratto isnt the GM for any other team, but Laron was a top 10 pick. He is very gifted athlete. Hopefully the team wont fully know how immature he is until after the trade. He is a SS, so hopefully the team will no that and ignore the fact that he misses many tackles, get beat on double moves often, launchs himself at opponents and normally misses.:doh:

Hopefully they will just see his potential.

Let's hope, lol. Come on. Be realistic.

[Chopper Dave]

Yeah, so a lot of talent will be pushed down which we can grab in rounds other than the first. Its a win-win.

Yep. Rounds which we can get picks in by trading down.

[Redskinzfan30]

Yep. Rounds which we can get picks in by trading down.

I don't know how many teams would want the 4th overall pick. It's going to be difficult to trade down. Which is why I see us trading down in the 2nd and acquiring a later 2nd and maybe a 2nd 2010 1st. Just like the Seahawks and Broncos did this year.