Why can't we finish our drives?

[MDstar08]

Wow another JC hate thread, how pathetic.

[redskinsgod]

UMMMM...... you do realize that Collins came in the KC game (at halftime) and was only down 3-0, right? If being down 3-0 constitutes the game being already given away with a full half to play, then you obviously don't think very highly of Todd Collins.

Ummm... and do you know who the last QB was who took over for the horrible play of candle to lead us to the playoffs? Nough said.

Plus, was it me or did collins lead us on the only drives of the KC game to score? Hmmm. Funny how that works.

Please, stop supporting JC. He's finished.

[wdcredskins]

Do you not understand what perfect means? He had 100% efficiency on every 3rd down pass he made. And on more than 50% of the 3rd and longs we had throughout the game Campbell converted. Converting 50% of 3rd and longs is not common.

Let's clarify something. Do you think we score any points at all in a game with O-linemen on the field? Do you think we score any points in a game without a QB on the field? Do you think we score any points in a game without a RB on the field? When you decide on answer to these three questions, you will have a better understanding of what the most important position on the field is.

Yeah we didn't score an TD's today. We also missed 2 FG's (1 of which was a short FG attempt). No RB had a TD. Contrary to what you may believe, QB's aren't magicians. They can't just wave their hands and overcome every drive-killing penalty, or every drop by a receiver, or every failed block on a running play.

And by the way, attempting to use the name Jason Candle in a derogatory manner, as if you are making fun of him, just makes you look bad.

he cleraly doesnt understand my post. Just wow. wow

and as for jason candle, i explained this to you in another thread. I guess he didnt read it. but the fact that you are so worried about me calling him jason candle...... must be a family member

[CampbellIsAwesome]

Ummm... and do you know who the last QB was who took over for the horrible play of candle to lead us to the playoffs? Nough said.

Plus, was it me or did collins lead us on the only drives of the KC game to score? Hmmm. Funny how that works.

Please, stop supporting JC. He's finished.

To your first point:

It was JC's first year as a starter. Collins was in Saunders' system for 6 years prior to 2007. If Collins didn't come in and immediately succeed in that offense, then it would've made Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders look incredibly stupid for bringing Collins here as a backup.

To your second point:

You completely disregarded that what I said completely rebutted your original point, but that's okay. For one, Collins didn't lead us on drives (plural). One of our two FG drives was a long run by Portis, and Collins netted us virtually no yards (I don't remember if we gained a few or lost a few yards) on the 3 pass attempts after the long run. The other drive was a relatively long pass from Collins to Moss. Funny though that Collins got the Redskins 0 points in that game. FG's aren't credited to a QB. Regardless, you won't find many people who think that Campbell wouldn't have at least put together 1 drive where we scored 3 points (and I doubt you could actually find anyone other than possibly yourself to say that).

To your third point:

I'll support whoever I damn well please. Who do you think you are to tell any fan who they should or shouldn't support? Grow up.

[CampbellIsAwesome]

he cleraly doesnt understand my post. Just wow. wow

and as for jason candle, i explained this to you in another thread. I guess he didnt read it. but the fact that you are so worried about me calling him jason candle...... must be a family member

No I stopped reading your replies in other threads once it became apparent that you lacked an ability to talk about a player without attempting to degrade him with every post you made. But thank you for bringing it to my attention again because I will gladly return to ignoring your ignorance.

[wdcredskins]

No I stopped reading your replies in other threads once it became apparent that you lacked an ability to talk about a player without attempting to degrade him with every post you made. But thank you for bringing it to my attention again because I will gladly return to ignoring your ignorance.

degrade who what where? tell that to the guy who made that commerical. i still think its hilarious. but the fact is, you constant concentration on that more than the ability to analzye numbers leads me to think that you are related to candle.

dont know the guy, dont care what he does in his own time. all i know is that this guy gets millions and sucks at what he does. lets not have too much pity for a millionaire huh

[harvey57]

We have jason Campbell, Old running backs, midget receivers, old lineman and undrafted rookies and a guy who called bingo calling plays and a coach with no coaching experience.

[redskinsgod]

To your first point:

It was JC's first year as a starter. Collins was in Saunders' system for 6 years prior to 2007. If Collins didn't come in and immediately succeed in that offense, then it would've made Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders look incredibly stupid for bringing Collins here as a backup.

To your second point:

You completely disregarded that what I said completely rebutted your original point, but that's okay. For one, Collins didn't lead us on drives (plural). One of our two FG drives was a long run by Portis, and Collins netted us virtually no yards (I don't remember if we gained a few or lost a few yards) on the 3 pass attempts after the long run. The other drive was a relatively long pass from Collins to Moss. Funny though that Collins got the Redskins 0 points in that game. FG's aren't credited to a QB. Regardless, you won't find many people who think that Campbell wouldn't have at least put together 1 drive where we scored 3 points (and I doubt you could actually find anyone other than possibly yourself to say that).

To your third point:

I'll support whoever I damn well please. Who do you think you are to tell any fan who they should or shouldn't support? Grow up.

You don't get it. Portis was able to run 70 yards because KC had to fear a REAL QB, not candle. See, having a good QB in the backfield helps your running game (and vice versa) and its not a surprise it was the only game where Portis ran for 100 yards. And again, you completely ignored my post because the word was a WHOLE game. Not a half. That means 100% of practice and the game.

And even though 2007 was his first year starting, he hasn't improved much since then. If anything, he has back peddled into a pocket panic QB. And, his accuracy hasn't gotten better neither. Good try though.

And, I don't care who you support but its obvious your support for campbell is down right fanatical based on what the guy has really produced the last 3 years. Your acting like he's Tom Brady. LOL.

Oh, and I'd change your userID. That would probably make your life a little easier when JC is booted from DC this off season.

[Lock4canton]

what qb do yall want jay cutler the league leading int wow im glad we already wasted our second round pick on jason taylor "bum" I don't see no qb coming in and winning,tell me how can u win when ur coach won't let u throw pass 10yrds or audible out a play when the def. comes with a blitz.OH i forgot 15sec left before halftime on the 21yrd line and pull the off out to kick a field goal wow were really up big now the cowgirls will never score over 6pts.IDIOT!!!

[pilsburypgh]

Cause JC aint good. Hes good enough to complete more open passes in between the redzone, But in the redzone you have to be more accurate which he aint. He knows this, thats why he doesent attempt risky passes that would depend on his accuracy. So what happens is the Oline collapses and he gets rushed. Which makes it seem like hes not the problem, when he is.

[pilsburypgh]

You don't get it. Portis was able to run 70 yards because KC had to fear a REAL QB, not candle. See, having a good QB in the backfield helps your running game (and vice versa) and its not a surprise it was the only game where Portis ran for 100 yards. And again, you completely ignored my post because the word was a WHOLE game. Not a half. That means 100% of practice and the game.

And even though 2007 was his first year starting, he hasn't improved much since then. If anything, he has back peddled into a pocket panic QB. And, his accuracy hasn't gotten better neither. Good try though.

And, I don't care who you support but its obvious your support for campbell is down right fanatical based on what the guy has really produced the last 3 years. Your acting like he's Tom Brady. LOL.

Oh, and I'd change your userID. That would probably make your life a little easier when JC is booted from DC this off season.

Nice post. I agree with you bigtime. You know I feel sorry for the Oline cause they Probably will get blitzed 24/7 just because of who the QB is. Its not even the running game, Its the passing game thats holding this offense back. Theres like no serious threat at all.

[Rufus T Firefly]

We watch the games. I even gave Campbell credit for making some plays today. The point is a team cannot rely on constant 10 or 12 play drives. We do not make explosive plays. That is not all Campbells fault, but I believe he is the major reason. He is inaccurate down the field and throws a completely too flat and inaccurate long ball. I will agree with the play calling. Our 3rd and short and 4th down plays are horrible. We should not be running stretch plays and delayed draws in those circumstances. It was interesting that we learned that Sherm Lewis does not call the running plays. Sherm Smith does.

Well, CLEARLY the reason we didn't score more today was because Campbell didn't have enough long pass plays.

BTW, here are the longest pass plays of the day by three QBs who's teams scored over 30 points this week:

Matt Ryan 28 yards

Brett Favre 25 yards

Philip Rivers 24 yards

Campbell had pass plays of 36, 29 and 26 yards today.

Proof positive.

[Maxwarrior]

Campbell threw the ball maybe 10 yards on those plays. That yardage was made by the receivers with great efforts. I think Campbell is average at best, but did play decent today. He was still inaccurate and didn't throw anything long, but for once he made some plays when there was nothing there. A rare thing for him.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Campbell threw the ball maybe 10 yarsds on those plays. That yardage was made by the receivers with great efforts.

Irrelevant. Read what I posted and what I was responding to again. Campbell was 12 for 12 on 3rd downs. Our drives that ended in FG attempts were ended by running plays or Zorn's "kick on 3rd down" decision. If someone wants to tell me it's still Campbell's fault because of "not enough big pass plays", in spite of plenty of big pass plays, then it doesn't matter if those came on shovel passes.

[Maxwarrior]

This thread is about the fact we do not finish drives. Yes, Campbell played better today, but the offense is still ham strung by the lack of a down field threat. We have a QB and coaching staff both unwilling and unable to stretch the field. One game changes nothing, with Campbell as the starter we do not score. The facts speak for themselves. The offense plods along. Even as good as Campbell played today, we need explosive scoring plays. No team can consistently execute long scoring drives. Campbell played better today, but is still a huge part of the problem.

[pilsburypgh]

Irrelevant. Read what I posted and what I was responding to again. Campbell was 12 for 12 on 3rd downs. Our drives that ended in FG attempts were ended by running plays or Zorn's "kick on 3rd down" decision. If someone wants to tell me it's still Campbell's fault because of "not enough big pass plays", in spite of plenty of big pass plays, then it doesn't matter if those came on shovel passes.

Its JC dude. We just dont seem to score when hes the QB. Thats been the case not only this year but since hes been starting. Its been the case even when the Oline was playin OK. JC fans seem to ignore that fact. Just like they ignore that when TC came in few years ago. We started scoring. Seems like everytime JC is the QB there something wrong with the Oline, RBs, WRs, playcalling, or coaches. But its flat out him. Dan if you need someone to point the finger at, there you go. I agree with cris carter, JC reads defenses like a rookie.

[Rufus T Firefly]

This thread is about the fact we do not finish drives. Yes, Campbell played better today, but the offense is still ham strung by the lack of a down field threat. We have a QB and coaching staff both unwilling and unable to stretch the field. One game changes nothing, with Campbell as the starter we do not score. The facts speak for themselves. The offense plods along. Even as good as Campbell played today, we need explosive scoring plays. No team can consistently execute long scoring drives. Campbell played better today, but is still a huge part of the problem.

First off, this thread follows, and is in response to, the game today. Secondly, my posts which you responded to were directly related to today's game and posts about such. So don't try lecturing me on this 'not being about today', please.

Finally, to unravel what you just posted- You are saying, basically, that we don't "finish drives" because we don't score on big plays enough. Or, to put another way, we don't finish drives because those drives exist in the first place.

[Maxwarrior]

This thread is in response to today being a continuing trend. The author looked at this game as a microcosim of our scoring problem. My point is simple. We have more than the Campbell problem, but it not a coincidence that we have struggled his entire time at QB. Now it is time to lecture. When a defense knows your QB does not want to and cannot consistenly throw deep then they can sit on the short stuff and your running game. This forces you to nickel and dime your way down the field. Even the best teams in the league have a hard time consistenly executing drives that take a lot of plays. We need to move the ball in bigger chunks. We need to score more from outside the red zone. Once in the red zone and the defense becomes even more packed, our QB's lack of accuracy shows even more. Again, I will admit that Campbell played better today, but he was still rather inaccurate. He did make some things happen when things broke down, which is not his norm. While I type this, the Eagles and Bears both hit big plays. Something Fedex has been missing for years.

[Rufus T Firefly]

This thread is in response to today being a continuing trend. The author looked at this game as a microcosim of our scoring problem. My point is simple. We have more than the Campbell problem, but it not a coincidence that we have struggled his entire time at QB. Now it is time to lecture. When a defense knows your QB does not want to and cannot consistenly throw deep then they can sit on the short stuff and your running game. This forces you to nickel and dime your way down the field. Even the best teams in the league have a hard time consistenly executing drives that take a lot of plays. We need to move the ball in bigger chunks. We need to score more from outside the red zone. Once in the red zone and the defense becomes even more packed, our QB's lack of accuracy shows even more. Again, I will admit that Campbell played better today, but he was still rather inaccurate. He did make some things happen when things broke down, which is not his norm. While I type this, the Eagles and Bears both hit big plays. Something Fedex has been missing for years.

So many fun little myths in one little post.

1. "Defenses are so unafraid of the deep ball that they sit on the short passes". And yet Campbell is 12th in the NFL in yards per attempt, even though defense are designing themselves to take away the only kind of pass he throws. That's amazing when you think about it.

2. "The running game doesn't produce because of Campbell". Which explains why the running game suddenly produced when we changed RB and two O-Linemen. Clearly it was because of Campbell that the run hadn't worked up till then.

And this "fact" fits in so well with the realization that 5 of the to 8 rushing attacks in the league (in YPA) come from teams who have had QBing that would make anyone wish for Jason Campbell (Tennessee, Carolina, NY Jets, Miami, St Louis). Or with the fact that Indy, Arizona, Houston and San Diego rank at the bottom of the league.

Crystal clear that poor rushing offense can usually be blamed on the QB and vice-versa.

3. "Campbell is bad in the Red Zone" Campbell has thrown 8 TDs in 30 attempts in the red zone. That percentage (26.7% of those throws result in TDs) is better than Peyton Manning (25%) or Tom Brady (18.2%) this year.

[Maxwarrior]

You are quoting some stats that are not indicative of the facts.

1. Defenses are not always built to take away all that an offense does. That take away the favorite and contain the rest. Our defense is a great example. We have a top 10 defense. Why, because we have been able to force teams to have to make long drives. We gave up big plays last week, but otherwise the entire idea is to force teams into multi 3rd downs to score. Even if you have a 66% 3rd down rate, if you have to make 4 or more to score. You don't. Our lack of success and attempts to throw deep makes it easier for the defense to make this happen. We are 23rd in the league in Pass yards per completion while being 9th in completon %.

2. I never said the running game doesn't produce due to Campbell, but it is more difficult if the other team can commit the extra player to stop it more often. Did you watch Dallas, they had the safety walk up a ton of times. Rock had a few good plays, but the running game was far from consistent. Plus, changing the OL hasn't helped short yardage. Between the OL and play calls we are unsuccessful. No push and slow developing plays.

3. Again, misleading stats. It shows he may be somewhat more efficient, but we also get to the red zone less. The Skins are 22nd in Red Zone attempts per game. This again shows that our drives are not successful. The above yards per completion stats again show why we get to the Red Zone less. The ploding keeps us from scoring high.

[CampbellIsAwesome]

You don't get it. Portis was able to run 70 yards because KC had to fear a REAL QB, not candle. See, having a good QB in the backfield helps your running game (and vice versa) and its not a surprise it was the only game where Portis ran for 100 yards. And again, you completely ignored my post because the word was a WHOLE game. Not a half. That means 100% of practice and the game.

And even though 2007 was his first year starting, he hasn't improved much since then. If anything, he has back peddled into a pocket panic QB. And, his accuracy hasn't gotten better neither. Good try though.

And, I don't care who you support but its obvious your support for campbell is down right fanatical based on what the guy has really produced the last 3 years. Your acting like he's Tom Brady. LOL.

Oh, and I'd change your userID. That would probably make your life a little easier when JC is booted from DC this off season.

Your second sentence is completely laughable. You think KC feared a career backup who once in his career stepped in and won 5 games in a system that he learned for 6 years, and now doesn't even play in that system? And you think I am "fanatical"? Again, laughable.

To your second paragraph.

2007 completion percentage - 60% (YPA 6.5)

2008 - 62.3% (YPA 6.4)

2009 - 66.0% (YPA 7.3)

His completion percentage has improved every year and so far this year his YPA has jumped nearly a full point. I.e. his accuracy IS improving and he is getting us more yards per drop back than he has ever given us in the past.

Note - Jason Campbell is 13th in YPA among QB's who have thrown more than 96 passes this year.

So your claim in paragraph 2 is patently false.

To your third paragraph:

One, I wouldn't compare anyone to Tom Brady, because frankly Brady isn't that good. Brady is on a team with players near the top of their field at virtually every position. Brady wasn't great in college, and we've already seen what a pretty bad backup can step in and do with the talent around Brady (keep in mind Cassell hadn't started a game since high school).

Two, I'm not going to sit here and go back forth with "I'm not fanatical", "Yes you are" blah blah blah. If you can't handle that I like a player that you don't; that I think a player is better than you think he is; than don't even bother replying because there is no point in debating anything with you.

To your fourth paragraph:

My screen name is and always will be whatever I damn well please. If people like you are going to pass judgment on a person because of what they chose as their screen name, without at least having a context, then again don't bother responding to this post because you are not a person I would associate with.

[CampbellIsAwesome]

Well, CLEARLY the reason we didn't score more today was because Campbell didn't have enough long pass plays.

BTW, here are the longest pass plays of the day by three QBs who's teams scored over 30 points this week:

Matt Ryan 28 yards

Brett Favre 25 yards

Philip Rivers 24 yards

Campbell had pass plays of 36, 29 and 26 yards today.

Proof positive.

Game over.

[powerANDgut]

Game over.

J.Campbell pass short middle to R.Cartwright to DAL 42 for 29 yards (A.Spencer) [K.Brooking].

J.Campbell pass deep (finally!) right to D.Thomas to WAS 47 for 26 yards (P.Watkins). Pass complete after avoiding rush by Ware.

(Shotgun) J.Campbell pass short left to M.Kelly pushed ob at DAL 19 for 36 yards (A.Ball). Penalty on DAL-B.Carpenter, Defensive Holding, declined.

Yep he really slung it down the field against Dallas with those completions. Or was it the receiver with YAC? Hmm

Just reading the game play-by-play will make you go insane:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=291122006&period=0

EVERY PASS is short left, short middle, short right. Two shots down the field all game.