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Do you have a favorite play?(Looking forward to year II of Zorn's offense)

darrelgreenie

By darrelgreenie
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eljeasel

eljeasel

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I don't like hitches and comebacks for the same reason. The receiver has to bring his momentum to a stop, turn around, catch the ball, then turn around and start running again. It's all very slow-developing with very little chance of serious yardage gains.

I see what youre saying. How do you feel about deep comebacks? I personally really like comebacks but only when they are for 1st down or bigger yardarge (like on 2nd and 6 you run a 7 yard comeback or a deep comeback for 20+)

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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I see what youre saying. How do you feel about deep comebacks? I personally really like comebacks but only when they are for 1st down or bigger yardarge (like on 2nd and 6 you run a 7 yard comeback or a deep comeback for 20+)

Well, deep comebacks are about the hardest play to execute: they take a long time to set up, so the blocking has to be immaculate. The WR has to have great burst and brakes, so they have to get up the field, sell the deep fade (or equivalent) then stop and come back. And the QB has to have a GUN and be accurate and timely with the ball, or it's getting knocked down on picked off. If executed properly, they are a great compliment to other routes, because it gives the DBs more to think about.

I still don't like routes that cause the receiver to stop. I just don't like them. Now, I think they have their place. You call them to keep the defense off balance. If you're only doing one thing, they pick up on those trends. You can't use stop-n-go type moves if you never set them up by running a few comebacks.

So, I'm not advocating for NEVER running them. But in your example, of a 7 yard come back on and and 6, the defense KNOWS that you need 6 yards and are going to be huddled around the 1st down marker. And if you run the route 1 yard off, or if the throw is 1 yard off, then you're short of the 1st down at the time of the catch, and the receiver is facing/going in the wrong direction to make up for that. I would much prefer to see the ball in the hands of the receiver while he is running either sideways or (preferably) forward in that situation. At least he can make a move, out run somebody, run over somebody, something, because he's moving. If he's stopped, he can really just get tackled.

This is just an opinion. I just personally hate to see a WR stopped after the play starts. And especially in the WCO, where there are fewer shots down field by design (in general) and the premise is to get the ball to the recievers quickly and on the move to rack up the RAC. You can't do that if the guy catching the ball is standing still facing the wrong way.

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darrelgreenie

darrelgreenie

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I see what youre saying. How do you feel about deep comebacks? I personally really like comebacks but only when they are for 1st down or bigger yardarge (like on 2nd and 6 you run a 7 yard comeback or a deep comeback for 20+)

I don't like hitches and comebacks for the same reason. The receiver has to bring his momentum to a stop, turn around, catch the ball, then turn around and start running again. It's all very slow-developing with very little chance of serious yardage gains.

Finally, something we at least half-way disagree about.

I think deep comebacks are a good way to gain chunk yardage.

It works well against Man and is still somewhat effective against Zone.

At the catch a deep comeback can easily gain 10-20 yards and if the WR can break a tackle or juke the defender its a race to the endzone.

But its a high risk high reward play.

It could also end in a sack, and a sack on a 5/7 step drop is hard to overcome.

And there are good zone coverage that take away the deep comeback just ask Tony Romo sits to pee and Chris Horton.

The pass protection has to be good.

The QB has to be very smart with the ball and recognize when a DB wins the match-up with the WR.

The QB also has to maintain helmet/eye discipline not to look at the receiver too soon because the a Zone defense will shift in that direction the QBs helmet and shoulders lead them.

I don't like the quick hitch because its a low reward/high risk play imo.

I like it as an audible against off coverage.

If the DB makes the tackle at the catch it as good as a run and it does set up the hitch-n-go.

When the timing between the QB and the WR is good the WR a chance to set the defender up for a move or break a tackle.

But, it is a nightmare against Cover 2 Zone/Press man the CBs are right there waiting because they have safety help and the DBs often have inside postion to begin with so if they read the play it could be a pick/pick 6.

And attacking a cover 2 doesn't mean freakin' running at it. Which is an ok tactic some of the time. You just can't do it ALL of the time. If they are playing cover 2, you have to be able to attack the damn thing. There are a million "cover 2 busters" out there.

I remember 2 years ago when TO and Garrett gameplanned against our Cover 2 and torched it. *(Aikman mentioned on NFL replay that Garrett had put in plays for TO against Cover 2)

Attacking in the RZ was one of the most peculiar things that they didn't do. I don't know why. But they need to do something more aggressive. Or maybe, just have more variety so everything works better.

100% We have the plays, Zorn just needs to dial them up.

Unfortunately, last year Cooley played backup right tackle the entire season. Literally playing right behind the behind of the right tackle. Which makes using him as a weapon very difficult. That's why we saw all fo the screens and dumpoffs, and why his TD number was so pittiful.

Good point, Cooley's receiving production is linked to the OL ability to pass block.

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eljeasel

eljeasel

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Well, deep comebacks are about the hardest play to execute: they take a long time to set up, so the blocking has to be immaculate. The WR has to have great burst and brakes, so they have to get up the field, sell the deep fade (or equivalent) then stop and come back. And the QB has to have a GUN and be accurate and timely with the ball, or it's getting knocked down on picked off. If executed properly, they are a great compliment to other routes, because it gives the DBs more to think about.

I still don't like routes that cause the receiver to stop. I just don't like them. Now, I think they have their place. You call them to keep the defense off balance. If you're only doing one thing, they pick up on those trends. You can't use stop-n-go type moves if you never set them up by running a few comebacks.

So, I'm not advocating for NEVER running them. But in your example, of a 7 yard come back on and and 6, the defense KNOWS that you need 6 yards and are going to be huddled around the 1st down marker. And if you run the route 1 yard off, or if the throw is 1 yard off, then you're short of the 1st down at the time of the catch, and the receiver is facing/going in the wrong direction to make up for that. I would much prefer to see the ball in the hands of the receiver while he is running either sideways or (preferably) forward in that situation. At least he can make a move, out run somebody, run over somebody, something, because he's moving. If he's stopped, he can really just get tackled.

This is just an opinion. I just personally hate to see a WR stopped after the play starts. And especially in the WCO, where there are fewer shots down field by design (in general) and the premise is to get the ball to the recievers quickly and on the move to rack up the RAC. You can't do that if the guy catching the ball is standing still facing the wrong way.

Cool, like your explanation. Theres a time and a place for the deep comeback. You pointed that out pretty well using my example. Another example of why comebacks are good when they are appropriate and not telegraphed. Good breakdown

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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Finally, something we at least half-way disagree about.

I think deep comebacks are a good way to gain chunk yardage.

It works well against Man and is still somewhat effective against Zone.

At the catch a deep comeback can easily gain 10-20 yards and if the WR can break a tackle or juke the defender its a race to the endzone.

But its a high risk high reward play.

It could also end in a sack, and a sack on a 5/7 step drop is hard to overcome.

Huh. I thought I had replied to this, and then it's not there. I wonder what happened...

Anyway, I'm not sure that we do disagree. I don't mind deep comebacks if they are used in conjunction with other plays. If you use them to set up a go, fade, post, something else, that's fine. And I'll never scoff at 10-20 yards. However, I think that once the receiver has to stop, turn around and catch the ball, his ability to make a move and make somebody miss from a stopped position is less than if he was moving. So I think that you kindof expect no RAC on the play, and if you get some, great.

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Octane67

Octane67

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My favorite play of last year was the WR reverse seems to be very effective in Zorn's offense.

1. keeps the defense from over pursuing and forces them to stay at home.

2. Takes advantage of our speed @ WR

3. We have some of the best blockers in the business out in the open field.

very exciting play and fun to watch.... check out JC and how far he runs downfield to block.

Here is Devin Thomas scoring his first NFL Rushing TD.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d80ce89a6/WK-13-Can-t-Miss-Play-Redskins-reverse

:D

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