Adam291 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I just read this thing on PFT (yeah yeah, Florio sucks) and it quotes Sean Payton saying that they have a whole lot of their playbook in already: “We could play a game today,” Payton told reporters. “All of our goal-line, short-yardage, two-minute, third down, red zone – all that stuff is in offensively and the kicking game. In training camp we’ll have a chance to go right from the beginning and obviously get more reps at it.” That sounds kind of impressive, so I'm just wondering how far the Skins are from getting to that point. The coaches seem optimistic, but we never hear any kind of detail. All the stuff Payton listed are things we really needed to work on, so I'm hoping that it's been 'installed' and by training camp it's more about getting reps and experience rather than first learning things. Being just the second year for both this offensive scheme and for Zorn, it might be pushing it to think we have most of the playbook in, but obviously the sooner we do it the better off we'll be. The good news seems to be that just about every starter (save for one well-publicized absense) was here for minicamp and OTAs, so there shouldn't be anyone too far behind. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Well, Zorn said they were 30% further along than at this point last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honejc Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 which means we only have 70% left to go!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer5500 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 They have also been in their system multiple years right? We are in year 2. It probably won't be like that for us until 2010 at the earliest and that's only if Zorn lasts that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd421 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 They have also been in their system multiple years right? We are in year 2. It probably won't be like that for us until 2010 at the earliest and that's only if Zorn lasts that long. Call me crazy but I hope Zorn Makes it through this year man....I really like the guy. I hope he can be our next great coach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGREENHULK Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Call me crazy but I hope Zorn Makes it through this year man....I really like the guy. I hope he can be our next great coach! +1...remember with 0 percent in this time last year we started 6-2.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECU-ALUM Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 +1...remember with 0 percent in this time last year we started 6-2.... +2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 +1...remember with 0 percent in this time last year we started 6-2.... Much of that can be attributed to the fact that the opponents new 0% of what to expect as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aston Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 When asked how far along his defense was, Sean Payton told reporters "Well, it's, uh, basically all done, you know, it's still, you know. What?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodOnPaper Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 When asked how far along his defense was, Sean Payton told reporters "Well, it's, uh, basically all done, you know, it's still, you know. What?" This. There's a reason why the Saints offense is awesome... that's all Payton spends his time on improving. Of course, Gregg is there now so it may improve but based on what he did with the jags last season it might take a while for them to come around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I just read this thing on PFT (yeah yeah, Florio sucks) and it quotes Sean Payton saying that they have a whole lot of their playbook in already: “We could play a game today,” Payton told reporters. “All of our goal-line, short-yardage, two-minute, third down, red zone – all that stuff is in offensively and the kicking game. In training camp we’ll have a chance to go right from the beginning and obviously get more reps at it.” That sounds kind of impressive, so I'm just wondering how far the Skins are from getting to that point. The coaches seem optimistic, but we never hear any kind of detail. All the stuff Payton listed are things we really needed to work on, so I'm hoping that it's been 'installed' and by training camp it's more about getting reps and experience rather than first learning things. Being just the second year for both this offensive scheme and for Zorn, it might be pushing it to think we have most of the playbook in, but obviously the sooner we do it the better off we'll be. The good news seems to be that just about every starter (save for one well-publicized absense) was here for minicamp and OTAs, so there shouldn't be anyone too far behind. Thoughts? This is the start of year 2 of a completely new offense that Zorn is bringing in that is quite unlike anything the Redskins had run in at least the tenure of every offensive player on the team. Pete Carmichael, Jr, who is the new OC of the Saints, was their QB/passing game coordinator since 2006. There has been a continuation of the basic offense and game plan since that time. You really can't fairly compare the two situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 This is the start of year 2 of a completely new offense that Zorn is bringing in that is quite unlike anything the Redskins had run in at least the tenure of every offensive player on the team. And if it doesn't work, this is all on the FO. They brought in a square peg and tried to force him to lead a team full of round holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Much of that can be attributed to the fact that the opponents new 0% of what to expect as well. Yeah they had no idea the Skins were going to run, throw and try to score points. This is not pee-wee football. Zorn had to lay off the second half because the line dictated it. If you can't run, you can't throw, you can't score. It all starts with blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Yeah they had no idea the Skins were going to run, throw and try to score points. This is not pee-wee football. Zorn had to lay off the second half because the line dictated it. If you can't run, you can't throw, you can't score. It all starts with blocking. It could also be said that defenses eventually learned that their was no true deep threat on the other side of the ball and were able to stack the box, which lead to their inability to run, throw, and score. You don't think there is any element of surprise in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
communion5 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 +2 +3................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 And if it doesn't work, this is all on the FO.They brought in a square peg and tried to force him to lead a team full of round holes. Wow, ready....:saber: Those pegs were fitting in pretty good in the first half for a new coach. Now don't get me wrong, Zorn did not remain flexible and creative in the second half, but as stated the line broke down. It was like dirt trying to stop the Preakness from running out there. Blocking was atrocious. Let's see what this line looks like before we fold up the tent on the '09 Redskins. The other factor in all this is experience, Zorn and Campbell should be improved this year. The newbie wideouts we so desparately needed in the RedZone will probably contribute this year, that changes everything. How many series did the Redskins look like they were going in for six and instead stalled, then sent Suisham out for three last year? \ They could not close games out because the run game broke down, the Skins need another back to spell Portis. I think they find him this year, he is already on the team. Again though blocking is key. I have given you several reasons to re-consider your negative view of this offense and the possibilities. Now you can just blame the FO all you want to, but I have yet to see Vinny and Snyder line up on third and long and stop a sack from happening. But give what they have done a chance to fail before mailing it in. Otherwise join a knitting group and make some mittens for you and your family, they will need them as nail protectors while rooting for these Skins. Please just imagine the Zornability and have a Bud Light. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxford Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Bingo!! The game is truly won in the trenches. Just like Fred Smoot said Fat boys wins the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 It could also be said that defenses eventually learned that their was no true deep threat on the other side of the ball and were able to stack the box, which lead to their inability to run, throw, and score.You don't think there is any element of surprise in the NFL? The surprise was out of the bag, the Redskins could not block to surprise anyone with anything. And yes when only Moss and Cooley represent any true threat down the field, you pretty much out of tricks. It is the ability to be able to run simple, but effective plays that set up mis-direction and gadget plays. I have high hopes for this year. I think Zorn being a former QB will be flexible with Campbells strengths and weaknesses. I think Campbell is a hard worker and is no fool. He knows he must perform better this year, but when all is said and done the line must still block well. Doug Williams in Tampa ran for his life, DW in DC had a line, same with Ryp, same with Joey T....same with Dilfer in Balt. vs. when he was in Tampa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Yeah they had no idea the Skins were going to run, throw and try to score points. This is not pee-wee football. Zorn had to lay off the second half because the line dictated it. If you can't run, you can't throw, you can't score. It all starts with blocking. The inability of the passing game to do **** dictated it. You can't run when opponents know that's ALL you have as a weapon, and stack the box accordingly, take that threat away, and challenge you to beat them in the passing game. Throw in the fact Clinton was totally beat up from carrying the offense, and it's not hard to see how the second half went offensively, aside from the line, which had it's fair share of faults too. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsCrushCowboys Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 time for Kelly, Thomas and Davis to contribute. Granted they were rookies, but showed up not ready to play. They add the "big" target that Jason needs and get the double teams off of Santana and Cooley. The Oline did what it could being very banged up last year and needs to stay healthy. It is also time for the QB to become the leader and step up his game, make decisions quicker and do not hesitate. As far as "how far along are we", second year of the system and should open up some. If the first three I mentioned can get up to speed, it opens up both the running game as well as the playbook for Zorn. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 The inability of the passing game to do **** dictated it. You can't run when opponents now that's ALL you have as a weapon, and stack the box accordingly, take that threat away, and challenge you to beat them in the passing game.Throw in the fact Clinton was totally beat up from carrying the offense, and it's not hard to see how the second half went offensively, aside from the line, which had it's fair share of faults too. Hail. I agree with everything you said but the first sentence. A QB must have time to look at more than one wideout to have a passing game. Campbell had no time to survey the field, instead looking where he felt comfortable, Moss and Cooley primarily. And then Cooley was held back in an attempt to help the line give him sometime. When you can block you can dictate as needed, through the air and on the ground. If the passing game dictates the game, then what happened with the 'Ol ball coach:evilg: and sending five guys out for passes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 time for Kelly, Thomas and Davis to contribute. Granted they were rookies, but showed up not ready to play. They add the "big" target that Jason needs and get the double teams off of Santana and Cooley. The Oline did what it could being very banged up last year and needs to stay healthy. It is also time for the QB to become the leader and step up his game, make decisions quicker and do not hesitate. As far as "how far along are we", second year of the system and should open up some. If the first three I mentioned can get up to speed, it opens up both the running game as well as the playbook for Zorn.HTTR Great sixth post, kudos. I would like to add that in camp we need to identify another back. I'd say the team is ahead of where it should be expected to be for a second year coach. And I am rooting for two horses on the right side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Call me crazy but I hope Zorn Makes it through this year man....I really like the guy. I hope he can be our next great coach! I was like that for a long time with Zorn. I loved the refreshing honesty of the guy, and the fact he was out of the same mould as Coach Gibbs, a family man with a strong faith system. Throw in the fact that he was thrust into the job by default, and I really wanted it to work out for him as much as anything else. But as the year progressed, his stubborn refusal to admit that maybe, just maybe, his predictable scheme may be partly at fault and instead blame everyone but started to get a little irk-some. Which was compounded in his season ending wrap up, when he again saw no fault in the scheme that opposing freaking players were telling ours on the field what we were gona' do, and his refusal to admit he might need help by staying everything with the staff would remain the same. That stubbornness, which borders on arrogance at times, allied to his refusal to at the very least have an open QB competition after the **** poor production year the current starter had just gone through, really started to stop me caring about the guy. Good luck to him, he'll stand and fall by what he believes. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam291 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 This is the start of year 2 of a completely new offense that Zorn is bringing in that is quite unlike anything the Redskins had run in at least the tenure of every offensive player on the team.Pete Carmichael, Jr, who is the new OC of the Saints, was their QB/passing game coordinator since 2006. There has been a continuation of the basic offense and game plan since that time. You really can't fairly compare the two situations. I think you can compare the two situations in the sense that we're talking about NFL teams, and while we might find reasons why one team is better or worse than the other, or why one team is further ahead another, the fact is that if we do not have a good portion of the playbook installed right now, we're behind. I've been as sympathetic towards Zorn, Campbell and the rest of the organization as anyone, but if we're only starting to put in the playbook in training camp, we're at a clear disadvantage. I don't know how far along we are (which is why I started the thread, to see if anyone knew any better), and maybe we do have a lot of this stuff in place, but I hope we're going to be able to start the season with a full spread and not run into the same problems as last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer5500 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Call me crazy but I hope Zorn Makes it through this year man....I really like the guy. I hope he can be our next great coach! I agree. I think Zorn is a great guy and i only want to see him do well here and for that to happen i think he needs 3 years as coach, minimum. Unfortunately i just don't think Snyder will have the patience if we have another .500 year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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