All Hail Redskins .. A sad but true articles on our WR history

[Missin Meast]

I came across this article today and it made me upset but excited for this year. After reading this I really want Thomas and Kelley to step it up, but with our history, it might just be a lost cause ..

http://allhailredskins.com/2009/05/27/redskins-and-the-nfl-draft-turning-a-blind-eye-to-talent-at-the-wr-position/

Let me know what you guys think ...:dallasuck

[TheLongshot]

My response? Past performance doesn't reflect what will happen in the future.

[Annonymous Source]

My responce

"Error establishing database connection..."

but we did draft Art Monk

[clarkskin]

Not that it matters, but it faiils to mention that they drafted Keenan McCardell in the 12th round in 1991. Not a bad pick. But who cares anyway? Picking wideouts is always a crap shoot. All of the ones they drafted showed promise, but just didn't work out. This article has no bearing on the (hopeful) success of Kelly and Thomas.

[Yeen80]

The selection of Desmond Howard cursed us. We haven't had anyone good since the late 80's.

And Albert Connell had one good season here...

Cliff Russell was a 3rd round pick?!?!?!

[Annonymous Source]

Hooray the link worked.

This article is why I dont like taking WR high in drafts. Sure you sometimes get a star, but it is the one position in football that is most dependent on other talent on the field.

WR can be busts because of scheme, work ethic, lack of a good QB/Offensive Line/Running game, Lack of adequate coaching, any significant leg injury, etc.

the basic problem is that unless you have a superstar athelete at the position it is a very difficult transition. Good College recievers match up against NFL ready DB's maybe 2 times a year. The playbooks are simpler in college and they are not asked to do much more than run past the other team. In the NFL the WR that is used to being all everything suddenly has to cope with being average, and it is next to impossible to analyze work ethic.

That is why IMO unless you have a Calvin Johnson or a Larry Fitzgerald there is really no point to drafting WR in the first few rounds. That is why everyone criticized the Heyward-Bay pick, because he is not dominant enough athletically (still good reciever potentially tho)

[terrifNick21]

My response? Past performance doesn't reflect what will happen in the future.

100% true.

[usapatriot]

I think Thomas has a bright future. I really like him and think he can do something. I haven't seen Kelly on the field long enough to make any kind of judgement on him. I think they still need at least a year before we see them take a major role.

[Adam291]

This article is why I dont like taking WR high in drafts. Sure you sometimes get a star, but it is the one position in football that is most dependent on other talent on the field.

WR can be busts because of scheme, work ethic, lack of a good QB/Offensive Line/Running game, Lack of adequate coaching, any significant leg injury, etc.

Man, people say that about every position. "Oh, don't draft a ____ with a high pick, you can get a good one of those in the later rounds for better value." Fact is, the good players in this league, the ones who play at a high level for years, are the high draft picks. Yes, teams routinely get good players in later rounds, but how many starting WRs or RBs or QBs or OTs who play for 5 or more years were taken in the 3rd or 4rd round or later? I'd bet it's not many.

All these prognostications about this team and others is getting silly. Articles like this are basically writing off the careers of Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly and even Marko Mitchell before they really even started. I'd bet of those 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders around the league, many, maybe even most of them, didn't blow everyone away in their rookie seasons. If our players don't pan out, then they don't pan out, but lets at least wait until they, you know, play.

[terpskins10]

This article has a real impatient tone to it.

Oh no! Jackson and Royal produced and Thomas and Kelly didn't! So? Every player gets put into a different situation. Royal and Jackson were needed right away to contribute, while Kelly and Thomas were behind a relatively solid vet duo (albeit one that could be improved upon).

Kelly and Thomas, Thomas moreso, were considered to be guys that needed a little seasoning before they could contribute. WR is probably the most difficult transition into the NFL after QB, and no one can EXPECT a rookie WR to be great. You have your cases of Boldin, Moss, Colston, but they are the exceptions rather than the rule.

Plenty of guys, like Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, and Reggie Wayne, had lackluster rookie seasons and ended up being consistently great receivers. I've seen people on this board that consistently point to Jackson and Royal as reasons why we made the wrong picks, but Jackson and Royal didn't fit what we needed. Give Thomas and Kelly another year or two to develop and I think we'll be pleasantly surprised with one or both of them.

[Annonymous Source]

Man, people say that about every position. "Oh, don't draft a ____ with a high pick, you can get a good one of those in the later rounds for better value." Fact is, the good players in this league, the ones who play at a high level for years, are the high draft picks. Yes, teams routinely get good players in later rounds, but how many starting WRs or RBs or QBs or OTs who play for 5 or more years were taken in the 3rd or 4rd round or later? I'd bet it's not many.

All these prognostications about this team and others is getting silly. Articles like this are basically writing off the careers of Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly and even Marko Mitchell before they really even started. I'd bet of those 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders around the league, many, maybe even most of them, didn't blow everyone away in their rookie seasons. If our players don't pan out, then they don't pan out, but lets at least wait until they, you know, play.

I dont disagree with you, it is just that the WR position is one that is uniquely dependent upon the skills of the players around you.

RB- this is the position with the easiest transition from college because if you are a good runner then you will be a good runner. Sucess directly translates.

OL- There are some cases where players rely solely upon their athleticism in college, but for the most part the high round picks here are able to transfer their sucess to the NFL.

QB- If they have the physical tools then their biggest worry is memorizing the playbook. This is no easy feat for a rookie, which is why most rookies hold a clipboard. The measurables like arm strength and quick release directly link to sucess tho.

WR- This position is the most difficult to draft in terms of a polished athelete because they are 100% reliant on the QB to get them the ball. Unless they are such a dominant athletic specimen that they can be coached into anything then all WR picks are risks.

this doesnt mean that I wouldnt take a Larry Fitzgerald with a high first round pick (I would). It just means that there are very few players that fit into that dominant mold in my mind.

They need Size (at least 6'3")

They need Speed (preferably a 4.4)

They need a long frame to help them catch the ball with their hands instead of their body

They need superior athleticism in strength, agility, and quickness (to be able to beat double teams)

They need to have a tough mentality to go over the middle of the field and get the ball

They need to be willing to work on their technique off the line to beat press coverage

They need good route running to have an immediate impact in this leauge

They need good immeasurables like work ethic and competitiveness

when one of these types of recievers enters the leauge a monster is born.

If a reciever is missing any two of the above traits then they literally come a dime a dozen in the draft.

That is why we see WRs like Santana Moss and Steve Smith falling down the boards on draft day. They turned into outstanding NFL recievers, but they will never be a complete package at the position like a Larry Fitzgerald.

but as for your point that this article is designed to jinx the careers of our current young recievers, I applaud you and couldnt agree more.

[No_Pressure]

One thing has really bothered me about this team for a while. We keep putting in mediocre players and saying we're "developing" somebody or something like that. Like if we keep Devin Thomas on the sidelines for 90% of the snaps he's going to magically step into games next season and catch for 1200 yards. I'll bet you in week 1 our #2 WR is still freaking Antwaan Randle-El.

We get these offensive players in the draft and YES there is something to be said for allowing a player to develop, but it's like we're afraid to ever let a player STOP developing. I mean holy **** how is Devin Thomas ever supposed to develop when he goes in for 5 passing plays per game and Campbell tosses it his way once or never? Damn at least guys like Eddie Royal and DeSean Jackson were out there from week 1 onward on most of the offensive snaps getting experience...

Don't tell me Thomas is a liability with route running either. I refuse to believe that a guy who could run routes in college can't go out there in the NFL and do SOMETHING. I mean I know that it's difficult to learn how to time and adjust routes while getting used to faster cornerbacks, more complex defenses, and about 10 times the number of plays but seriously, how is anybody supposed to learn anything if you never give them a chance???

Look at mistakes we've made in the past few years. Taylor Jacobs saw the field how often? I think he sucks but he had 7 starts in 3 years with the Redskins. I understand the idea that you have to earn your spot in practice but holy crap couldn't we have at least played him a couple of games, tried to give him the ball 10 times per game a few occasions and see what happened? The same goes for Cliff Russell...he was a 3rd round pick and in 2 years with us he had 0 starts and appeared in 3 games. Seriously what the hell is that?

Now Rod Gardner we tried getting the ball to a LOT and in 2002 with his 1,000 yards and 8 TD's it looked like he was going to be pretty decent but he was 50/50 for a reason and we made him a #2 and eventually parted ways with him for a reason. Still at least we tried and we DID get some production out of him (surprise).

Here's another question: Why do we have Ladell Betts on this roster. He's a slightly slower Clinton Portis that doesn't break tackles, can't find the endzone, and has a fumbling problem. Why is it such a blasphemous idea to cut his ass and sign a guy like Marcus Mason to take carries? Runningbacks are a dime a dozen, you get someone who can run fast and follow blockers and you have a 1,000 yard back.

Here's another player we are waiting too long to put into action: Chad Rinehart. He's a freaking 6'5 311 pound guard we picked up in the 3rd round last year. Does anybody remember that? Does anybody in management remember he's on the team? Why doesn't anybody talk about him? Does he suck that badly? Is he a complete failure? He's 24 years old, what are we doing? I know Randy Thomas is good, but good teams replace even their great players BEFORE they break down on them.

It's like selling a car you know will have transmission problems BEFORE the transmission dies on you in the middle of nowhere. Would we rather have an inexperienced player learn how to play from training camp through the season, or would we rather have an inexperienced player take a majority of 2nd team reps all training camp, 8 games into the season and then throw him into the lineup in the middle of the game because the old guy you knew was injury prone ended up *gasp* getting injured.

Rant over.

[terpskins10]

One thing has really bothered me about this team for a while. We keep putting in mediocre players and saying we're "developing" somebody or something like that. Like if we keep Devin Thomas on the sidelines for 90% of the snaps he's going to magically step into games next season and catch for 1200 yards. I'll bet you in week 1 our #2 WR is still freaking Antwaan Randle-El.

.................(not quoting big blocks of text! )........................

Rant over.

I'll buy that. We rely too much on aging vets and try to keep young guys in the wings to develop but never let them realize their potential.

I've gone on record saying that Marques Colston, Jahri Evans, Jason Peters, etc. would have never happened on the Redskins. Chris Horton is the exception to that, and that happened due to injury.

[mnb123]

Rant over

I agree with pretty much everything you say, except the part about Devin's route running. It was well known that he was pretty raw in that area coming in, among others.

But it does seem like we never give young players a chance to step up through baptism by fire.

Oh, and in regards to the OP, we passed over Mike Williams for 'Los (which everyone here was pissed about, BTW), so we have made some good moves, too. Kudos on that.

[No_Pressure]

I'll buy that. We rely too much on aging vets and try to keep young guys in the wings to develop but never let them realize their potential.

I've gone on record saying that Marques Colston, Jahri Evans, Jason Peters, etc. would have never happened on the Redskins. Chris Horton is the exception to that, and that happened due to injury.

Exactly, on defense its a completely different thing. We usually DO find useful players and have good depth on defense...though I think we could do a little better in that department with the linebacker position (very little in terms of great starting talent home grown there since Pierce) we usually do a good job of letting our rookies see the field at the right time on defense and turning them loose...ironically, our defense has been in the top 15 in the league 6 times since 2000, our offense has been in the top 15 1 time since 2000.

[Outlaw Torn]

Im not big on taking WRs early in the draft seems like that position is the riskiest on draft day.

[Annonymous Source]

Rant over.

Never apologize for your rants. If it werent for ranting there would be no real discussion on this site:D

[No_Pressure]

Seriously though it just makes me so frustrated...I mean sometimes I'm sitting there watching a game and I'm thinking holy crap, Randle-El is not a #2 and Thrash doesn't belong on the field with the offense. I don't care how bad Devin Thomas is with routes and plays, put him out there and force the freaking ball to him...just see what he does I mean what do we have to lose? We could do it in games where we're down by a good amount like the losses to Pittsburgh, New York (at home), and Baltimore last year. What do we have to lose????

[Yeen80]

Very good points The-Rock. I'll back you with your analysis anytime, but I do think Thomas has questionable route running skills. He's just sloppy IMO. Once he thightens that up I think he'll be fine.

But I completey agree we baby our WR's too much. It's like we are trying to hide them or something

[Slant666]

Not that it matters, but it faiils to mention that they drafted Keenan McCardell in the 12th round in 1991. Not a bad pick. But who cares anyway? Picking wideouts is always a crap shoot. All of the ones they drafted showed promise, but just didn't work out. This article has no bearing on the (hopeful) success of Kelly and Thomas.

AHR also omitted Charlie Brown, the eighth round pick in 1981 who had Pro Bowl seasons in 1982 and 1983. It may be convenient to confine the argument to the first three rounds, but does that really tell the complete picture does it? Why is the Gibbs1 era even in the discussion though? The receiving talent that came through the Redskins at that time was absolutely ridiculous. I'd respect the argument a little more if AHR focused on what happened after he first retired.

Also, in typical draft honk fashion, AHR assumes that high picks are not a crap shoot to begin with; for every Art Monk drafted (#18) there isn't also a Johnny Lam Jones (#2) to even things out.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

We all hang onto the glory years too much around here. Fact: the skins have been irrelevant since 1991. The WR's drafted have been total busts. Rod Garner, Westbrooke, Howard... All first rounders. All blew.

[MWCREDSKINS]

This is an article that is true. But this will be big for Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly. Let's see how they respond to an NFL offseason. Both have said the right things. I question Thomas' toughness last season but hopefully he's hitting the weights. Who knows look at White in Atlanta. Complete bust his first couple seasons and last year goes to the Pro Bowl, it can happen. But I don't want Taylor Jacobs and Rod Gardner all over again

[RiggosMohawk]

They need Size (at least 6'3")

They need Speed (preferably a 4.4)

They need a long frame to help them catch the ball with their hands instead of their body

They need superior athleticism in strength, agility, and quickness (to be able to beat double teams)

They need to have a tough mentality to go over the middle of the field and get the ball

They need to be willing to work on their technique off the line to beat press coverage

They need good route running to have an immediate impact in this leauge

They need good immeasurables like work ethic and competitiveness

when one of these types of recievers enters the leauge a monster is born.

If a reciever is missing any two of the above traits then they literally come a dime a dozen in the draft.

One of my all-time faves - Marvin Harrison - not big, 4.4 speed, not a 'long frame', not a superior athlete. He runs excellent routes. He got this ability through the only important item on your list - WORK ETHIC. Put the stopwatch & tape measure down and find out how a WR works on his game. Marvin got to the point where all his routes look exactly the same to a DB. Any idea how hard that is to defend? There are no tells on film, no giveaways. The CB is at a complete disadvantage in his backpedal. Still, that great route running only comes through hard work.

[Slant666]

We all hang onto the glory years too much around here. Fact: the skins have been irrelevant since 1991. The WR's drafted have been total busts. Rod Garner, Westbrooke, Howard... All first rounders. All blew.

Not hanging on to anything, AHR based their insight on receivers drafted over the last 30 years. I am just saying that other teams have less to show while using more high picks. Look at our division rivals during this time frame: The Cowboys are the only other team that has drafted a hall of famer (Irvin), and there aren't many outside of Toomer, Hilliard and Alvin Harper that had overly successful careers with their draft teams (Jimmy Smith was drafted by Dallas but made his mark in Jacksonville) . For every 50-50 Rod Gardner, I'll raise you a Freddie Hands Mitchell, the other S. Moss and the Giant version of Steve Smith.

[Adam291]

Large block of text.

I agree with pretty much all of this. ARE probably still will be the #2, unless they start with a 3 WR set and ARE is in the slot. I'd be happy with that, and that's how it should be. But also remember with Devin Thomas, that he was getting a lot of offensive pass interference calls.It wasn't just that Thomas was bad at route running or couldn't get open, he was moving us backwards a few times. I think that's probably one of the first things he's worked on, and I'd hope he can get on the field for most plays. And also, even if ARE stays as #2, Thomas has to be #3. Thrash seems like a good guy, but there's no way Thomas could be worse than him.

As for Ladell Betts, the Redskins organization seem to have a strong loyalty towards him. Even when Larry Michael gets questioned about it on RN, he defends him. Maybe it's cause Betts chose to stay here after that 1000yd season instead of getting paid elsewhere, but I don't see why anyone would objectively think he's the best option we have as 2nd RB when we could have Mason, Aldrige or Dorsey.