JP: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

[Mickalino]

The difference here is that Israel would be very happy if just left alone. Instead, they are used by many 'Arab-world' leaders as a scapegoat for their own ineffective and often corrupt governments. The same thing is done to the US.

Iran, on the other hand, wants very much to be the only power in the region. They use inflammatory tactics to focus on Israel as the enemy that needs to be destroyed. Before they have Nukes, that is a pretty hollow boast. Once they get Nukes, it becomes a reality.

Good assessment.

[jpyaks3]

The difference here is that Israel would be very happy if just left alone. Instead, they are used by many 'Arab-world' leaders as a scapegoat for their own ineffective and often corrupt governments. The same thing is done to the US.

Iran, on the other hand, wants very much to be the only power in the region. They use inflammatory tactics to focus on Israel as the enemy that needs to be destroyed. Before they have Nukes, that is a pretty hollow boast. Once they get Nukes, it becomes a reality.

A lot of Israeli citizens would be happy to be left alone. Some political leaders, not so much. I think the conservative side is still trying to expand Israel through settlements and other expansionary tactics. Israel needs to recognize that it would be better off if the Palestinians had an economically and politically viable state. I may seem to be picking on the Israeli's here but they are the ones in a position to change that situation.

I entirely agree on the Arab leaders scapegoating Israel to control their own populations. It is a problem but I think the bigger problem our involvement in the region through client states. We allow people like Mubarak to oppress the Egyptian population and the Egyptian political system with our aid and our policy towards Egypt. I think that is more enabling for these leaders then the Israeli scapegoat. But both need to be addressed.

Iran certainly wants to be a hegemon in the region but I do not think they would use a nuclear weapon offensively. I think they would use it as a way to deter some Israeli or Arab actions and to basically level the military playing field between them and Israel. The regime in Tehran is not suicidal, however, a nuclear Iran is not in the United States best interest because we would lose some significant leverage in the region and it also might start an arms race in the Arab countries which would not be good at all.

[December90]

Netanyahu is an expansionist to the tee. He believes that they should gain whatever land they can however they can. That by definition in Israel is an extremist position in the political scope. Him and Lieberman are both extremists and have some pretty nasty/repulsive statements about the Palestinians.

Who said a damn thing about Jews walking into gas chambers? Oh thats right you did because you can't have an intellectually honest discussion instead you have to throw out ridiculous **** like that.

Who is appeasing anyone? What the hell are you talking about?

Just a guess. You are not Jewish.

Another Guess. You are not Christian.

One more Guess. You don't think Israel has a right to the land of Israel, and you don't think that Israel should defend itself against the surrounding threat.

Final Guess. You don't realize that Israel is roughly the same size as New Jersey, surrounded by enemies as large as the rest of the U.S.

[December90]

A lot of Israeli citizens would be happy to be left alone. Some political leaders, not so much. I think the conservative side is still trying to expand Israel through settlements and other expansionary tactics. Israel needs to recognize that it would be better off if the Palestinians had an economically and politically viable state. I may seem to be picking on the Israeli's here but they are the ones in a position to change that situation.

You do realize that the largest stumbling block to creating a "Palestinian state" is the Arab world's refusal to simply agree that Israel has the right to exist.

[Ghost of]

I said what I said because that's the attitude some people apparently have. Don't fight, don't resist, don't be strong or proud or obstinate in the face of evil or at least, in the face of your annihilation.

Just go meekly marching in your striped pajamas, to the showers, take them off and stand while you're exterminated.

And now, meek submission isn't just for Jews anymore. Now we ALL should according to the political/social calculus of some I've encountered.

[JMS]

Not defending deliberately misspelling his name but I have seen that done dozens of times with Ahmadinejad and you haven't piped up about that.

In my own defense, If I were accused of hating everybody's name I mispelled, I don't think I would find a friend on planet earth.

Mispelling on my part isn't so much a deliberate act of defiance as a way of life.

[JMS]

Actually, I wouldn't be shocked if it is an accident. JMS is an AWFUL speller and rarely makes an effort to get difficult names correct.

Thanks for defending me Pete... I think.

[JMS]

its just another fear mongering piece from the jpost.

Are you intentionally mispelling piece, (i.e. peace) because you secretly love war and want to take Israel apart?

Just kidding. It's so rarely I get to correct anybody's spelling.

On the broader note, I agree with you. The JP headline is misleading and fear mongering; but it's more than that. It genuinly reflects the fear that exists in Israel over Iran obtaining nukes.

I also think it's no coincidence Netayahu is in Washington DC getting the hard sell from Obama, while this story breaks in the JP. It's all about trying to define the Iranians and their intentions and further to justify bolster, Israel's hard line.

[JMS]

thats laughable, im pretty sure isreal could knock iran out in 6 days...

Actually I don't think either party has the ability to significantly threaten the other conventionally. The Israeli IDF is top notch, but they are a defense force not built to project power 1000 miles distant from their boarders.

Iran's got the largest military in the world with 12 million men under arms. They also have shown to be very industrious and implement well thought out strategies against US style tactics as employed by Israel. ( See Hezbollah in the winter war, or Hamas in Gaza ). But Iran's forces are not very sophisticated and don't possess the means to really threaten Israel conventionally either.

Also Nobody in the region ( Saudi, Jordan, Iraq or even Syria ) will allow either of them fly over permission to get at the other.

[JMS]

Wait, wait, wait... Iran thinks it could defeat Israel? And do it in eleven days?

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Best comedy since Baghdad Bob.

I too would be more worried if Iran said they could wiipe Israel out in ten minutes. Some sort of implied first strike threat, Like I'madinnerjacket (sic) statement about Israel being consumed by fire a few years back.

Eleven days seems to imply conventional weapons. I don't think Iran or Israel for that matter could even reach the other's boarders in eleven days. Not with 130,000 Americans in Iraq.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

No one, including Israel, acts responsibly in the middle east. That's pretty much the bottom line of all this. We should just leave and let them all blow each other up.

[jpyaks3]

Just a guess. You are not Jewish.

Another Guess. You are not Christian.

One more Guess. You don't think Israel has a right to the land of Israel, and you don't think that Israel should defend itself against the surrounding threat.

Final Guess. You don't realize that Israel is roughly the same size as New Jersey, surrounded by enemies as large as the rest of the U.S.

I am not going to define my religion here.

But I will address your talking points.

I do recognize that Israel exists and it should continue to exist along the 1967 lines. I realize exactly how big Israel, however, you don't seem to be able to differentiate between enemies and friends. Egypt has a peace deal with Israel as does Jordan. Syria is very close to getting a peace deal done. Turkey is a staunch Israeli ally.

Here is a guess of my own you don't know a lot about the region and/or you are being intellectually dishonest.

[JMS]

Netanyahu's an extremist for standing up for his people and being a member of a civilized society.

Right.

Why are Jews still expected to walk meekly to the gas chambers?

And when did the West forget the concept of self-defense and the lessons learned from appeasement?

Netanyahu's an extreamist because his views represent the extreme right of the Israeli political spectrum. Ariel Sharon was more centrist than Netanyahu and Sharon was accused of three war attrocities and convicted of two in Israeli courts!

The only way Netanyahoo can claim to not be an extreamist is because he's included folks further to the right in his own government like Leiberman.

[jpyaks3]

You do realize that the largest stumbling block to creating a "Palestinian state" is the Arab world's refusal to simply agree that Israel has the right to exist.

How so? Has Egypt attacked Israel (there is a peace deal in place) in the last 20 years? How about Jordan (who has a peace deal with Israel)? Syria? Morocco? Libya? Syria? How has the Arab world prevented Israel and Palestine from coming to a reasonable solution?

The problem is that both the Palestinians and the Israeli's have been unable to come to an agreement on a host of issues. The heart of that is both sides unwillingness to try to help out the other side.

[Commander PK]

If they honestly believe they could beat Israel in any kind of straight up fight, the Iranian leadership really is nuts, there is no question. If the objective is for Israel to destroy, and go home, that would be it.

The problems would come if Israel tried to occupy Iran.

[JMS]

Interesting how the ancestors of Babylon still are fighting with the people of Kanaan. This conflict is ancient, and should be left in the past.

Actually the king of Persia, Cyrus the Great conquered the folks who had conquered Israel and Judea. ( Ancient Israel split in two Israel and Judea around 980bc and each half thus weakenned fell to different threats )... Cyrus allowed the ancient Israeli's to return to their lands and ended the first Diaspora. The King of Persia, Cyrus is the only gentile to be reffered to as messiah or divinely-appointed king, in the Tanakh (Isaiah 45:1-6).

Tanakh is the Jewish Bible.

The troubles of modern Israel are not ancient. They at most date back to 1948 when modern Israel was founded. At least they date back to 1999 the last year when no Israel died due to terrorism when active peace talks were on going.

[Thiebear]

As was said before: Israel would fit nicely in Montana.

Pay into the ponzi scheme to keep it going another 20 years.

"Haulin House' is on all the time...

[Mickalino]

Iran's got the largest military in the world with 12 million men under arms.

Bigger than China ?

[Mickalino]

If we are talking about regimes then sure we wiped the Taliban regime off the map. We wiped Saddam Husseins regime off the map. There is a very distinct difference between wiping a nation of people off the map or a regime off the map. Fun side note on wiping people off the map. There is no such idiom in Persian Ahmadinejad could not have possibly said that. He instead said something along the lines of:

The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem must [vanish from] the page of time.

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translates the phrase similarly, as "be eliminated from the pages of history."

According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian". Instead, "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#.22Wiped_off_the_map.22_or_.22Vanish_from_the_pages_of_time.22_translation

Thats the interesting thing with language you can twist it in so many ways.

If we assume what you're saying is true about the translation, and that there is no such Persian idiom as "wiping a nation off the map" the problem is that the English language has a term for the interpretation you provided, or else you would not have been able to interpret it that way.

If Ahmadinejad was truly saying that he wished that the current regime in Jersualem would collapse, then why didn't the interpreter phrase it that way, since apparently we CAN say in English "that the regime would collapse" ??

[JMS]

Bigger than China ?

Yep. China since the first gulf war has been modernizing. They saw the way we undressed the Iraqi's military with a force of 1/10th their size during Dessert Storm. Iraq actually had the fourth largest army in the world back in 1990. The so called million man army. Only 600,000 guys reported back for duty after we kicked them out of Kuwait.

Since the 90's China has reduced their men under arms and opted for a tighter more modern western style military. By active troops China is still #1 with about 2.2 million troops under arms. The United States is #2 with 1.4 million full time active troops.

But when you throw in reserves and militia's nobody competes with Iran's 12 million man militia by a long margin.

[December90]

At the emergency meeting of the UN regarding another conflict in the Middle East, the floor has been given to the Israeli Consul.

The Israeli Consul began, "Ladies and gentlemen before I commence with my speech, I wanted to relay an old story to all of you... ...When Moses was leading the Jews out of Egypt he had to go through deserts, and prairies, and even more deserts... The people became thirsty and needed water.

So Moses struck the side of a mountain with his cane and at the sight of that mountain a pond appeared with crystal clean, cool water. And the people rejoiced and drank to their hearts' content. Moses wished to cleanse his whole body, so he went over to the other side of the pond, took all of his clothes off and dove into the cool waters.

Only when Moses came out of the water he discovered that all his clothes had been stolen... And I have reasons to believe that the Palestinians stole his clothes."

Yassir Arafat, hearing this accusation, jumps out of his seat and screams, "This is a travesty...It's A lie ! It is widely known that there were no Palestinians there at the time!!!"

"And in agreement with Chairman Arafat," said the Israeli Consul, "let me begin my speech..."

[jpyaks3]

If we assume what you're saying is true about the translation, and that there is no such Persian idiom as "wiping a nation off the map" the problem is that the English language has a term for the interpretation you provided, or else you would not have been able to interpret it that way.

If Ahmadinejad was truly saying that he wished that the current regime in Jersualem would collapse, then why didn't the interpreter phrase it that way, since apparently we CAN say in English "that the regime would collapse" ??

Arabic and Persian are both very complex languages, there is a ton of words that don't have exact translations so it comes down to the individual translators interpretation.

I am not sure Ahmadinejad was actually trying to say or saying, but I know in the past he has made it clear that he was criticizing Zionism as opposed to Jews or Jewishness that was later blended together by whatever media source was covering it and then subsequently reported under that presumption. It would be stupid for him to criticize Jews as a whole since Iran has the largest Jewish population out of any Muslim state.

So I guess what I am saying is with translations like that it is pretty easy to put words in someone else's mouth especially in translations where a lot of sayings or words don't have exact translations.

[jpyaks3]

At the emergency meeting of the UN regarding another conflict in the Middle East, the floor has been given to the Israeli Consul.

The Israeli Consul began, "Ladies and gentlemen before I commence with my speech, I wanted to relay an old story to all of you... ...When Moses was leading the Jews out of Egypt he had to go through deserts, and prairies, and even more deserts... The people became thirsty and needed water.

So Moses struck the side of a mountain with his cane and at the sight of that mountain a pond appeared with crystal clean, cool water. And the people rejoiced and drank to their hearts' content. Moses wished to cleanse his whole body, so he went over to the other side of the pond, took all of his clothes off and dove into the cool waters.

Only when Moses came out of the water he discovered that all his clothes had been stolen... And I have reasons to believe that the Palestinians stole his clothes."

Yassir Arafat, hearing this accusation, jumps out of his seat and screams, "This is a travesty...It's A lie ! It is widely known that there were no Palestinians there at the time!!!"

"And in agreement with Chairman Arafat," said the Israeli Consul, "let me begin my speech..."

Can I get a source on this or is it some joke? I am confused.

Assuming that there were no Palestinians in that territory in ancient times should we give back the entire United States to the Native Americans? After all they were here before us.

[JMS]

"And in agreement with Chairman Arafat," said the Israeli Consul, "let me begin my speech..."

So your point is we should look up the Canaanites and return the lands of Israel to the original owners? The folks the ancient Israelis took their lands from.

Fact is Ancient Israel only existed for a few hundred years (920 BC - 722 BC). The term Palistinian appears in the time of Alexander the Great's time and was used for thousands of years to reffer to that territory. It dates all the way back to when Cyrus first ended the first diaspora of the jews after conquering the Asyrians.

Alexander didn't march across Israel, he marched across Palistine. Jesus wasn't born in Israel, He was born in the Roman province of Palistine.. Look it up in Plutarch's lives, the term Israel isn't there. They called that region Palistine.

Not that any of that has anything to do with a solution to the modern troubles other than to say both parties have a history and a story.

[youngestson]

dang..I hope this doesnt turn ugly.

both in Israel and on here..

Not to downplay it, but Iran has been making rumblings about defeating this or that country since the Islamic Republic came to power. Israel is just the power most often mentioned. They actually declared war on the U.S. in 1986 or there abouts.