My Offseason Plan - Thoughts?

[Stormy]

I like most of the ideas, and the accompanying thought that went into making the proposed transactions. I think you have accurately identified the prime targets to release, and extend (though I would let Doughty walk with Horton, Moore and Green available etc....). The key to this draft is landing 2 starting quality, instant impact, anchors for the OL... and your plan accomplishes that. If one of the "elite" OLT candidates falls to us, we might have a team like DET willing to jump up and grab him (in which case, the offer of our #1/3 for their #1/2, might not be beyond reason).

Likewise, since I view OL as completely paramount to this draft, I like the idea of acquiring our DL upgrade through free agency, delaying our draft focus on DL until 2010. There aren't a lot of worthy candidates aside from Haynesworth, and while I'm not sure we have what it takes to land him, you certainly cleared the room to make it possible. Otherwise, re-signing Hall, and keeping Carlos until we can extend him next year are the remaining keys to a successful offseason.

Following a model even somewhat close to what you outline, plus mandating a seasoned OC on Zorn, and we might just be ready to make some noise in 2009. Good post.

[CommDownMan]

I agree that Montgomery and Golston can be solid tackles for us. However, the thing that a guy of Haynesworth's caliber brings is a playmaker and penetrator. In my mind, that's what's really held back our pass rush. You see occassionally when Carter or Taylor would use their speed to get close to the QB, but then the QB would just step up into an open pocket. There was no pressure up the middle. Ever since Griffin's injuries have held him back from his amazing 2004 campaign, we haven't had a guy like that. Getting a stud DT would help our pass-rush more than another edge pass-rushing threat a la Taylor.

Cap-wise, it would be smartest to get rid of our defensive vet core from that 2004 FA class (Daniels, Griffin, Springs, Washington). Their contracts all had prorated bonuses that are mostly fulfilled now with 5 years of service. Dead cap money only deals with guaranteed money, which we've already paid mostly to these players. The backend of the contracts (last remaining years) contain the high base salaries, which would be wiped out of the books if cut.

Jason Taylor was traded to the Skins, so his guaranteed money was picked up by the Dolphins. Therefore, while it would cost $8.5M to keep him next year, he has no money guaranteed. Therefore, we wouldn't have any dead cap for him, and his release would give the full $8.5M in savings.

Agreed. I looked at our defense that is really solid, but lacking in sacks/pressure. Crowder for Washington and Hall for Springs were to get younger.

Offensively, our biggest problem is the line, which I tried to address in the draft. I think with more experience, Thomas and Kelly will improve and with more time Campbell will throw down field a bit more.

[CommDownMan]

Do you mean 2010 when you say next year?

yup, fixed

[GroundNPound]

I agree that Montgomery and Golston can be solid tackles for us. However, the thing that a guy of Haynesworth's caliber brings is a playmaker and penetrator. In my mind, that's what's really held back our pass rush. You see occassionally when Carter or Taylor would use their speed to get close to the QB, but then the QB would just step up into an open pocket. There was no pressure up the middle. Ever since Griffin's injuries have held him back from his amazing 2004 campaign, we haven't had a guy like that. Getting a stud DT would help our pass-rush more than another edge pass-rushing threat a la Taylor.

Cap-wise, it would be smartest to get rid of our defensive vet core from that 2004 FA class (Daniels, Griffin, Springs, Washington). Their contracts all had prorated bonuses that are mostly fulfilled now with 5 years of service. Dead cap money only deals with guaranteed money, which we've already paid mostly to these players. The backend of the contracts (last remaining years) contain the high base salaries, which would be wiped out of the books if cut.

Jason Taylor was traded to the Skins, so his guaranteed money was picked up by the Dolphins. Therefore, while it would cost $8.5M to keep him next year, he has no money guaranteed. Therefore, we wouldn't have any dead cap for him, and his release would give the full $8.5M in savings.

Thanks for responding. Good points all. I know Haynesworth is a beast, but my worry is how much of it is playing for a contract. The risk of making him the highest payed Defensive player in NFL history and having it not pay off is daunting. If the case of jason Taylor and Griffin are true, then I would agree with your assessment to release them. Griffin is just too oft-injured and Taylor seems to be out of his element. Not worth an 8.5 mil cap hit for sure.

[CommDownMan]

I think that would be a pretty successful off-season, and wouldn't be upset with that at all.

Things I would do differently is:

1.) I would add Randle El, & Jansen to the list of cuts...

2.) I would sign Angelo Crowell, Karlos Dansby or Leroy Hill(my preference) over Crowder...

3.) I would also target Shane Lechler or Sam Koch at P...

Jansen if we can get the OT would make sense, don't think ARE makes sense.

A younger LB replacement for Washington would make me happy. I would be fine with other options.

I thought about a P, it would definitely be nice to have Lechler.

[CommDownMan]

Thanks for responding. Good points all. I know Haynesworth is a beast, but my worry is how much of it is playing for a contract. The risk of making him the highest payed Defensive player in NFL history and having it not pay off is daunting. If the case of jason Taylor and Griffin are true, then I would agree with your assessment to release them. Griffin is just too oft-injured and Taylor seems to be out of his element. Not worth an 8.5 mil cap hit for sure.

Would you offer a similar contract to Suggs instead?

Might make sense with Taylor being cut and Golston/Monty staying.

I feel like at least 1 DL and 2 OL need to be brought in next year.

[dachozenone]

Would you offer a similar contract to Suggs instead?

Might make sense with Taylor being cut and Golston/Monty staying.

I feel like at least 1 DL and 2 OL need to be brought in next year.

Say no to SUGGS!!! Suggs is a beast but we would be in the same position we are this year 2 good DE's and no solid DT. Suggs has Pryce and Ngata (sp) on his line. Take those 2 away (which you would essentially be doing by putting him on the Skins) and he would not be so spectacular.

[CommDownMan]

Say no to SUGGS!!! Suggs is a beast but we would be in the same position we are this year 2 good DE's and no solid DT. Suggs has Pryce and Ngata (sp) on his line. Take those 2 away (which you would essentially be doing by putting him on the Skins) and he would not be so spectacular.

Well that was my first thought, but he didn't seemed thrilled about Haynesworth (maybe just the contract).

[jtyler42]

Jansen if we can get the OT would make sense, don't think ARE makes sense.

A younger LB replacement for Washington would make me happy. I would be fine with other options.

I thought about a P, it would definitely be nice to have Lechler.

True, releasing El might not make sense but the thing about El is that he is not worth the money. he makes starting WR money but he is at best a #3 or 4 on a good team.

I think Lechler would be a very under-rated signing...with the way our D plays and the field position he would give us...it would be very hard to score on our D!

[IbleedBnG83]

Gholston is a backup at best.

Haynesworth will not sign for that "little".

I like many of the moves.

[CommDownMan]

Gholston is a backup at best.

Haynesworth will not sign for that "little".

I like many of the moves.

I didn't realize Haynesworth was franchised (say in a different thread)...that changes things for me.

edit: looks like the tag was last year...oops.

[CommDownMan]

True, releasing El might not make sense but the thing about El is that he is not worth the money. he makes starting WR money but he is at best a #3 or 4 on a good team.

I think Lechler would be a very under-rated signing...with the way our D plays and the field position he would give us...it would be very hard to score on our D!

If we could get Lechler and Bironas/Graham I would feel much better about ST. I thought Graham might sign cheaper growing up in VA (still a decent contract I think).

[AKM311]

I like your post and respect your work in putting up a quality post that shows research has been done.

However, I do not agree with Reed's tender, but thats not a big deal. Golston definitely should be tendered for a 2nd round pick. DT's are hard to come by and at worst our backup DT will cost $1.3M (which is very reasonable for the production he gives us).

As for Haynesworth, I highly doubt he makes it to FA. The Titans have already started contract negotiations with him.

If we do not get Haynesworth, I believe we should go after Jordon Gross (all though I do not think he makes it to FA as well). I think putting him at RT would solve a lot of pass protection issues from that side, while not losing quality run blocking.

As far as the draft, we need to some how end up with 6 picks at minimum. I believe our 3rd rounder has some good value in obtaining a 4th and 5th. I think after rounds 1 and 2 the draft is about more picks than the round. Look at Horton! The more darts you have the better you have of hitting the bulls eye. However, I would only trade down in the 1st if we are getting MORE picks. I would not trade it to make our 3rd into a 2nd. This does nothing for us!

[dachozenone]

Thanks for the links you posted will most def use those in the future. I like how you used actual data and didn't just say let's do this and that and not take the cap into consideration. I agree with you in replacing LB and K. I might throw a P up there also if we have the cap room. I guess here is where I may differ from your original post. Instead of going after Haynesworth I say we go after C Jason Brown from Baltimore or OT Jordan Gross from Carolina. I would say Brown because he would be cheaper than Haynesworth and cheaper than Gross. You also have to take into account Rinehart (sp) has to get some playing time next year also. That way we could spend our 1st round pick on a BPA at either OT or DT. I say we sign a Rocky Bernard or Jovan Haye to give us our push up the middle.

[fdarugar]

I agree with alot of your ideas but I doubt the Lions would trade that 2nd rounder to move up 6 spots. So for arguments sake lets just say we trade them that 3rd rounder as well, we get the 19th and 33rd they get our 13th and whatever that 3rd rounder is.

Cut:

Jansen

Randle El

J. Taylor

Griffin

Springs

Daniels

Washington

Re-sign:

K. Campbell

Hall

Montgomery

FA:

Haynesworth

Gross

Dansby

Babineaux

Graham

Lechler

Draft:

19th: Everette Brown

33rd: Duke Robinson

Rest of draft OL and DL, whatever.

Wild Card: Trading Carlos Rogers for a late 2nd early 3rd. I am feeling there is a strong possiblity there but I won't put it down in my plans.

Our squad:

Offense:

LT - Samuels

LG - Open competition between rookie (Robinson) and Rhinehart

C - Raybach

RG - Thomas

RT - Gross

WR1 - Moss

WR2 - Thomas

WR3 - Kelly

TE - Cooley

HB - CP

FB - Sellars

QB - Jason CANDLE

Defense -

LDE - Carter

DT - Babineaux

DT - Haynesworth

RDE - Everette Brown

OLB - Rocky

MLB - London

OLB - Dansby

CB1 - Hall

CB2 - Rogers

CB3 - Smoot

FS - Landry

SS - Horton

PK - Graham

P - Lechler

KR - Rock

PR - Devin Thomas...get the ball in his effing hands.

The offense might still suck but another year in ther same scheme, heathly Kelly and Thomas, 2 new OL. I think this team looks alot better than last years. But its all just an idea.

[CommDownMan]

I like your post and respect your work in putting up a quality post that shows research has been done.

However, I do not agree with Reed's tender, but thats not a big deal. Golston definitely should be tendered for a 2nd round pick. DT's are hard to come by and at worst our backup DT will cost $1.3M (which is very reasonable for the production he gives us).

As for Haynesworth, I highly doubt he makes it to FA. The Titans have already started contract negotiations with him.

If we do not get Haynesworth, I believe we should go after Jordon Gross (all though I do not think he makes it to FA as well). I think putting him at RT would solve a lot of pass protection issues from that side, while not losing quality run blocking.

As far as the draft, we need to some how end up with 6 picks at minimum. I believe our 3rd rounder has some good value in obtaining a 4th and 5th. I think after rounds 1 and 2 the draft is about more picks than the round. Look at Horton! The more darts you have the better you have of hitting the bulls eye. However, I would only trade down in the 1st if we are getting MORE picks. I would not trade it to make our 3rd into a 2nd. This does nothing for us!

To get 1 DL and 2 OL like I mentioned I think one comes through FA and 2 through the draft. A trade that might work for some could be KC, Rams or Bengals. Our first for their 2nd/3rd and next years 2nd. Early 2nd and early and mid 3rd. Could get all three that way. (not to mention 2 2nd's next year). Think what we could do with a 1st and 2 2nd's next year.

[CommDownMan]

I agree with alot of your ideas but I doubt the Lions would trade that 2nd rounder to move up 6 spots. So for arguments sake lets just say we trade them that 3rd rounder as well, we get the 19th and 33rd they get our 13th and whatever that 3rd rounder is.

Cut:

Jansen

Randle El

J. Taylor

Griffin

Springs

Daniels

Washington

Re-sign:

K. Campbell

Hall

Montgomery

FA:

Haynesworth

Gross

Dansby

Babineaux

Graham

Lechler

Draft:

19th: Everette Brown

33rd: Duke Robinson

Rest of draft OL and DL, whatever.

Wild Card: Trading Carlos Rogers for a late 2nd early 3rd. I am feeling there is a strong possiblity there but I won't put it down in my plans.

Our squad:

Offense:

LT - Samuels

LG - Open competition between rookie (Robinson) and Rhinehart

C - Raybach

RG - Thomas

RT - Gross

WR1 - Moss

WR2 - Thomas

WR3 - Kelly

TE - Cooley

HB - CP

FB - Sellars

QB - Jason CANDLE

Defense -

LDE - Carter

DT - Babineaux

DT - Haynesworth

RDE - Everette Brown

OLB - Rocky

MLB - London

OLB - Dansby

CB1 - Hall

CB2 - Rogers

CB3 - Smoot

FS - Landry

SS - Horton

PK - Graham

P - Lechler

KR - Rock

PR - Devin Thomas...get the ball in his effing hands.

The offense might still suck but another year in ther same scheme, heathly Kelly and Thomas, 2 new OL. I think this team looks alot better than last years. But its all just an idea.

I don't think we can afford Haynesworth and Gross.

I feel like OL can step up quicker than DL on average. That's why I went FA DL and drafted OL.

I personally like Rogers and would rather keep him.

[fdarugar]

I don't think we can afford Haynesworth and Gross.

I feel like OL can step up quicker than DL on average. That's why I went FA DL and drafted OL.

I personally like Rodgers and would rather keep him.

Regardless if its Gross or some other UFA I think we need to dip into the free agent pool on OL and DL. Both our lines are GARBAGE.

[CommDownMan]

Regardless if its Gross or some other UFA I think we need to dip into the free agent pool on OL and DL. Both our lines are GARBAGE.

Jason Brown, mentioned above might be a good choice. Jovan Haye might be a good DT and we could probably afford Brown and Haye. Then I would pray for Oher to drop (or another stud OT).

[SkinsAllDay34]

I think we should see if Taylor will reduce his salary a lot, before we cut him. He said he isnt worth 8 million and it is probably his last year, after football he will make more money, so if we can maybe get him to play for like 1 or 2 million, he maybe can be more productive with no injuries heading into next season.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I agree with the cuts.

The only RFA I would sign is Montgomery. I think Doughty is awful.

That is way too much to pay Hall. He's earned a contract, but I think the league has learned that you never ever ever overpay DeAngelo Hall. He's become a turd the last two times he signed for big money. Let someone else overpay him if that's what it takes.

I think you are undervaluing Haynesworth, but I like the idea.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I agree with alot of your ideas but I doubt the Lions would trade that 2nd rounder to move up 6 spots. So for arguments sake lets just say we trade them that 3rd rounder as well, we get the 19th and 33rd they get our 13th and whatever that 3rd rounder is.

Cut:

Jansen

Randle El

J. Taylor

Griffin

Springs

Daniels

Washington

Re-sign:

K. Campbell

Hall

Montgomery

FA:

Haynesworth

Gross

Dansby

Babineaux

Graham

Lechler

Draft:

19th: Everette Brown

33rd: Duke Robinson

Rest of draft OL and DL, whatever.

Wild Card: Trading Carlos Rogers for a late 2nd early 3rd. I am feeling there is a strong possiblity there but I won't put it down in my plans.

Our squad:

Offense:

LT - Samuels

LG - Open competition between rookie (Robinson) and Rhinehart

C - Raybach

RG - Thomas

RT - Gross

WR1 - Moss

WR2 - Thomas

WR3 - Kelly

TE - Cooley

HB - CP

FB - Sellars

QB - Jason CANDLE

Defense -

LDE - Carter

DT - Babineaux

DT - Haynesworth

RDE - Everette Brown

OLB - Rocky

MLB - London

OLB - Dansby

CB1 - Hall

CB2 - Rogers

CB3 - Smoot

FS - Landry

SS - Horton

PK - Graham

P - Lechler

KR - Rock

PR - Devin Thomas...get the ball in his effing hands.

The offense might still suck but another year in ther same scheme, heathly Kelly and Thomas, 2 new OL. I think this team looks alot better than last years. But its all just an idea.

If you cut Jansen and ARE, you reduce the amount of cap space available. And you want to sign what will probably be the highest paid defensive lineman, linebacker, offensive lineman, and kicker in next year's class while keeping Hall.

I'm not sure how this all fits together.

[CommDownMan]

I agree with the cuts.

The only RFA I would sign is Montgomery. I think Doughty is awful.

That is way too much to pay Hall. He's earned a contract' date=' but I think the league has learned that you never ever ever overpay DeAngelo Hall. He's become a turd the last two times he signed for big money. Let someone else overpay him if that's what it takes.

I think you are undervaluing Haynesworth, but I like the idea.[/quote']

Well, I guess we can take from Hall and give to Haynesworth

[Ernie5]

I remember reading that cutting Griffin and Taylor will have cap penalties so high it would make letting them go pointless.

Taylor? Really? Isn't he in the last year of his deal? If so, there would no dead money issue.

[IbleedBnG83]

I didn't realize Haynesworth was franchised (say in a different thread)...that changes things for me.

edit: looks like the tag was last year...oops.

titans are already in contract talks with him.