I Think Dan's Getting It Right

[jimster]

so you bench a vet that gives you a better chance to win just so you can say your draft picks contributed?

[Oldfan]

Oldfan, you have snapped.

That's possible.

The team is a mess with huge contracts to only a few players, leaving us little room to actually build a team. And we are tied to those players for years to come.

There's still some garbage that needs hauled, but it isn't going to happen overnight. Let's see how they handle this offseason.

What moves have they made since Joe departed the scene do you have a problem with. Let's not count rumors of trades that never happened.

[gibbsfan2018]

The same need that drove him to financial success has worked against him as the owner of the Redskins. He came in thinking that he knew it all; he made mistakes and learned from them. He won't repeat those mistakes. He's not a fool.

See Jason Taylor. So your are saying he is a fool since he is making the same mistakes that he made 9 years ago.

[The Sisko]

While I never liked going after him, I understood the logic, especially with how things went down this season. There was a strong need to find a guy to put in the #2 slot to take the pressure off of Moss. ARE is not that guy. That being said, I don't particularly like giving up that much for a player who may have 3 seasons at most left in him.

You understood the logic? :doh: That argument might hold water if they'd made the offer for say Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald but not Ocho Stinko. So please explain the logic of attempting to bring in an older vet (there's that same mistake again) in exchange for TWO first rounders no less, who has a long established history of being a malcontent? Yeah, that's logic alright.

And I thought it was a joke when someone implied earlier that you're really Vinny or Danny. But OK, how's your raquetball game these days?

[jimster]

See Jason Taylor. So your are saying he is a fool since he is making the same mistakes that he made 9 years ago.

yes, he should have known Taylor would have gotten hurt in a pre-season game and again in week 3.

If the team did nothing after losing 2 DE's in the same day in training camp, everyone would have been complaining by week 2 of the season "why didn't we go after Taylor while we had the chance?"

[Horatio]

Dan wont get it right until Cerrato is gone!!!!!!!!!!

Which will be in 2031, when Snyder finally decides to sell the team.

[Oldfan]

Yes...not one of them. That's an indictment to me. If you have 3 second round picks, at least one of them should make a meaningful contribution from day one.

I don't know the answer to this question, but I wonder how many rookie receivers got up to speed in the WCO in their first year.

Anyway, we don't agree on this one. I'll wait until next year to judge.

[jimster]

You understood the logic? :doh: That argument might hold water if they'd made the offer for say Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald but not Ocho Stinko. So please explain the logic of attempting to bring in an older vet (there's that same mistake again) in exchange for TWO first rounders no less, who has a long established history of being a malcontent? Yeah, that's logic alright.

And I thought it was a joke when someone implied earlier that you're really Vinny or Danny. But OK, how's your raquetball game these days?

it was for a 1st round pick for an immediate impact player. The second pick was a contingent 3rd for staying healthy that becomes a first if we won a Superbowl this season.

[McD5]

That's possible.

There's still some garbage that needs hauled, but it isn't going to happen overnight. Let's see how they handle this offseason.

What moves have they made since Joe departed the scene do you have a problem with. Let's not count rumors of trades that never happened.

Ignoring bigger needs....and drafting 3 wrs in the second round. One to back up a pro bowler, and an adequate Yoder.

2 of those 3 wrs are highly questionable, one will never play 16 games due to health concerns. We couldn't get a 5th round pick for him right now, let alone a second.

The other had one good season, against suspect competition.

I also believe Dan continues to meddle too much.....telling Zorn that JC was the starter, before he even saw him practice one single time.

And picking Portis over their coach sends an anarchistic message. Player over team, don't listen to the coach.

[jimster]

telling Zorn that JC was the starter, before he even saw him practice one single time.

and you know this how? Wouldn't any new coach to a team assume that the young first round draft pick is the guy you're expected to develop?

[JimmyConway]

While I never liked going after him, I understood the logic, especially with how things went down this season. There was a strong need to find a guy to put in the #2 slot to take the pressure off of Moss. ARE is not that guy. That being said, I don't particularly like giving up that much for a player who may have 3 seasons at most left in him.

After the Ocho Stinko trade offer and the JT trade how can we honestly believe the FO and Snyder have the Redskins going in the right direction? The only reason why I see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel is because of the rumblings that Cerrato (and Zorn because of their intertwined fates) only has the 2009 season left to prove himself.

So far I agree with everything Yusuf has said.

[McD5]

and you know this how? Wouldn't any new coach to a team assume that the young first round draft pick is the guy you're expected to develop?

Zorn named JC the starter at his very first press conference. Before even seeing the three qbs live. The only one he did see, was TC, in the Seattle game.

Maybe it would be smarter to actually let the coach tell you who the best is.....you know...like after 5 practices or so?

[jimster]

Zorn named JC the starter at his very first press conference. Before even seeing the three qbs live. The only one he did see, was TC, in the Seattle game.

Maybe it would be smarter to actually let the coach tell you who the best is.....you know...like after 5 practices or so?

Joe Gibbs did the same thing with Patrick Ramsey. - Named the young first round draft pick the starter at his press conference.

[gibbsfan2018]

yes, he should have known Taylor would have gotten hurt in a pre-season game and again in week 3.

If the team did nothing after losing 2 DE's in the same day in training camp, everyone would have been complaining by week 2 of the season "why didn't we go after Taylor while we had the chance?"

Old players that do not train in the off-season will get hurt. So yes, the Skins should have know it was a high possibility. The day it happened I was pissed. I said "same old Dan". If we use a draft pick to draft players there would be a young DE on the bench that has been with the team 2-3 years chomping at the bit to play.

[ttr77]

Joe Gibbs did the same thing with Patrick Ramsey. - Named the young first round draft pick the starter at his press conference.

Wasn't this before his SECOND year?

[McD5]

Joe Gibbs did the same thing with Patrick Ramsey. - Named the young first round draft pick the starter at his press conference.

Joe Gibbs also called a double timeout, traded the farm for players like JC, Duckett and Rock, and was under .500 during his second tenure.

That doesn't make it right.

[jimster]

Old players that do not train in the off-season will get hurt. So yes, the Skins should have know it was a high possibility. The day it happened I was pissed. I said "same old Dan". If we use a draft pick to draft players there would be a young DE on the bench that has been with the team 2-3 years chomping at the bit to play.

Agree about drafting more D-line, but Buzbee was someone the coaches were excited about. He went down the same day and no one knew how long it would be before Erasumus James would be able to contribute.

The injuries have nothing to do with his age. Having someone roll up the back of your leg would injure any player, as would getting kicked hard enough to cause internal bleeding.

[barry wilburn]

I don't see a pattern of anything other than complete mediocrity since 2006. Since then Snyder gave Jansen and Portis ridiculous guarantees, traded for Jason Taylor, completely botched the search for JG's replacement, threw 10 draft picks in the garbage and generally thumbed his nose at his fans by refusing to speak publicly and lying about the extent of his involvement in the team.

[IbleedBnG83]

I think they are making better decisions, but your comment on them being bright is somewhat misleading. I think they may be bright in the general sense of intelligence, but when it comes to football knowledge and savvy, I would not by any means call them bright. If what you are saying is true, and Snyder and Ceratto stay together running the show for years, I don't expect anything big for at least another decade.

I disagree about him learning from Gibbs is that he stay close to decision making process. Gibbs was given more autonomy than other coaches. If anything, he should have learned that he should relinquish more control.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

I have known a few Dan Snyders in my time. Let me tell you about him.

Genuinely self-confident people act as though they have nothing to prove, to themselves or anyone else. Dan lacks self-confidence. He's a short, Jewish kid with a helluva lot to prove. His problem is narcissism, the same problem that plagues us all to some degree. In Dan, the problem manifests itself as a need to feel superior.

Lacking self-confidence and being narcissistic are polar opposites fyi.

[jimster]

Wasn't this before his SECOND year?

and this season was prior to Campbell's full second year, just as it was with Ramsey.

[ttr77]

and this season was prior to Campbell's full second year, just as it was with Ramsey.

I believe this was before Ramsey's 4th year. And the coach made the call after seeing what each QB had for a full year under his stewardship.

Quite different from a new coach making the statement without seeing what he's got firsthand.

[jimster]

I believe this was before Ramsey's 4th year. And the coach made the call after seeing what each QB had for a full year under his stewardship.

Quite different from a new coach making the statement without seeing what he's got firsthand.

Ramsey was drafted in 2002. He was part of Spurrier's QB carousel - played in a few games. Started one full season in 2003. Gibbs was hired following the 2003 season. After watching Ramsey on film, Gibbs traded for Brunell.

Campbell had one full season as a starter when Zorn arrived, just like Ramsey before Gibbs arrived.

When you're hired to coach a team, your QB's are a 34 year old journeyman and a young first round draft pick that needs to be developed, which would you assume you should put your effort toward?

[Sandman69]

What improvements did Campbell really make? Some limited improvements in his footwork? Not turning it over as much? Did he improve in his win loss percentage? He regressed to the mean after a 6-2 start and finished 8-8--why? Because Campbell is nothing more than a completely mediocre QB.

I am not sold on JC but I disagree that he hasn't improved. He has much better feel in the pocket and sidestepped quite a few would be sacks for a big play/first down. Now, after the Steelers game and the following relentless blitzing teams, it becomes hard to feel for the pocket when it is collapsing too quickly. I think his biggest problem later in the season was not trusting the OL and getting into reading the routes quickly enough because he was waiting for the inevitable hit.

Yes he has thrown some bad passes, but he has made some very good ones as well. Not to mention the couple games that shoulda been wins if a receiver doesn't drop the pass.

And yes, he DID improve his win-loss percentage this year compared to last year. He was 5-7 when he went out in the Chicago game.

41% < 50%.

Yes he needs improvement, but to honestly say he has regressed is not fair IMO. If he doesn't clearly improve next year I think he should be gone.

[TheLongshot]

You understood the logic? :doh: That argument might hold water if they'd made the offer for say Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald but not Ocho Stinko. So please explain the logic of attempting to bring in an older vet (there's that same mistake again) in exchange for TWO first rounders no less, who has a long established history of being a malcontent? Yeah, that's logic alright.

Well, you can only trade for who is available on the trade market. In the end, none of those players were on the market when we were looking. Even Chad Johnson wasn't on the market. (and even if that reported deal was real, the Bengals were fools to tell people that was what the offer was.)

I never said that I liked the deal (tho it probably wouldn't have been two 1st rounders because there were serious incentives in that deal.), just that I understood why they were trying to be aggressive in getting a stud receiver.