We need to go after Matt Cassell!

[SonnyJ]

I'm not saying that the Pats have a great line.

But, the facts are the Patriots have the same line as last year with 3 pro-bowlers Logan Mankins, Dan Koppen, Matt Light

They gave up 21 sacks in 578 attempts in 2008

I'd say that's pretty good?

This year the only change is Cassell otherwise its the same line, same HC, same OC, same system, same WRs

39 sacks in 398 attempts

I'd say their offensive didn't get bad overnight, their still good and the sack numbers from this year (39 sacks in 398 attempts) are skewed b/c of Cassell's inexperience

Does that answer your question?

It's not a bad answer, and at least you tried to rather than just mouth how great the Patriot OL is.

My reply would be, maybe they're not as bad as they're showing this season with Cassel, but also maybe Brady made them look better than they really are?

The point is that the Patriot OL that is considered to be built properly and considered all-world is, on paper, performing at a lower level than the Redskins OL. It's clear that, with the only significant difference being the QB in that offense, that Cassel is probably the principal contributor to the incredible downgrade in production for that offense. Going from Brady to Cassel has made that OL look significantly worse than it did a season ago. I think there would be a far different view of the Redskin OL if you put a QB of Brady's caliber behind it. Isn't it entirely possible that Campbell could be having somewhat of the same effect on the Redskin OL that Cassel is having on the Patriot OL? It strikes me that people expect elite level of play out of the Redskin OL in order for Campbell to elevate his game, but, in NE, apparently it is elite play from the QB that lifts the play of the OL from mediocre to elite (not to mention the entire offense and the benefit that the defense derives).

I don't think there is much difference at all between the Redskin OL and the Patriot OL. For that matter, many OLs are probably pretty similar. Very few are exceptional regardless of circumstance, very few are disastrous regardless of circumstance. There are outliers, but there is mostly a middle class. I think the OL has a bigger impact on the running game than the passing game. If you put a QB that can move in the pocket, sense pressure, and make quick, accurate decisions behind most OLs, that OL will probably look pretty good as a pass-blocking unit.

Pass blocking, like pass coverage, generally will eventually break down. But there's a point of sufficiency with pass blocking - if a QB is getting rid of the ball in 2.8 seconds or less (and this is very doable behind just about any line if the QB is good enough), does it really matter if you have an OL that can consistently provide 5 seconds of protection against one that only provides 4 (or 3.5)? There isn't a pass rush in the league that will get to a QB in less than 3 seconds given that someone actually impedes its progress. Likewise, if a QB has an uncanny feel for eluding pressure and moving in the pocket, a fortress around him probably isn't essential. Look at how much better the Cowboy OL looks with Romo sits to pee than with Johnson or Bollinger.

[downbeat87]

my point is... on paper, everything is 2d and not how it is in real life.

[Ernie5]

This thread is an ultimate fail.

Cassel isn't that good, he's just in a better situation in NE then we have here. Give JC Randy Moss and Wes Welker instead of Santana Moss and Randle El and you'll see 400 yard passing games from JC and you chicken littles will be crying for us to get JC instead.

Between Cassel and JC, I'll take JC -- thanks.

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

i don't think we should try to get cassell... he has some seriously good receivers up there (which we don't) that make him look so good...

Also, wasnt he in that New England system for a few years? I believe that's the reason they didnt go after a new QB when Brady went down. He put in sometime on the sideline holding the clipboard. Cassel knows THAT system. No telling if he would be good in our system once he learned it.

[MassSkinsFan]

It's not a bad answer, and at least you tried to rather than just mouth how great the Patriot OL is.

My reply would be, maybe they're not as bad as they're showing this season with Cassel, but also maybe Brady made them look better than they really are?

The point is that the Patriot OL that is considered to be built properly and considered all-world is, on paper, performing at a lower level than the Redskins OL. It's clear that, with the only significant difference being the QB in that offense, that Cassel is probably the principal contributor to the incredible downgrade in production for that offense. Going from Brady to Cassel has made that OL look significantly worse than it did a season ago. I think there would be a far different view of the Redskin OL if you put a QB of Brady's caliber behind it. Isn't it entirely possible that Campbell could be having somewhat of the same effect on the Redskin OL that Cassel is having on the Patriot OL? It strikes me that people expect elite level of play out of the Redskin OL in order for Campbell to elevate his game, but, in NE, apparently it is elite play from the QB that lifts the play of the OL from mediocre to elite (not to mention the entire offense and the benefit that the defense derives).

I don't think there is much difference at all between the Redskin OL and the Patriot OL. For that matter, many OLs are probably pretty similar. Very few are exceptional regardless of circumstance, very few are disastrous regardless of circumstance. There are outliers, but there is mostly a middle class. I think the OL has a bigger impact on the running game than the passing game. If you put a QB that can move in the pocket, sense pressure, and make quick, accurate decisions behind most OLs, that OL will probably look pretty good as a pass-blocking unit.

Pass blocking, like pass coverage, generally will eventually break down. But there's a point of sufficiency with pass blocking - if a QB is getting rid of the ball in 2.8 seconds or less (and this is very doable behind just about any line if the QB is good enough), does it really matter if you have an OL that can consistently provide 5 seconds of protection against one that only provides 4 (or 3.5)? There isn't a pass rush in the league that will get to a QB in less than 3 seconds given that someone actually impedes its progress. Likewise, if a QB has an uncanny feel for eluding pressure and moving in the pocket, a fortress around him probably isn't essential. Look at how much better the Cowboy OL looks with Romo sits to pee than with Johnson or Bollinger.

These are good points, but you're silent on the difference between receiving corps. I was curious about YAC and total yards. I chose the top 4 WR based on depth charts, plus top TE:

Santana Moss: 355 YAC, 828 Total

ARE: 172 YAC, 510 Total

James Thrash: 17 YAC, 73 Total

Devin Thomas: 3 YAC, 77 Total

Cooley: 289 YAC, 701 Total

SKINS COMBINED: 836 YAC, 2189 Total

YAC as percentage of total: 38%

Randy Moss: 273 YAC, 785 Total

Wes Welker: 567 YAC, 868 Total

Jabar Gaffney: 85 YAC, 330 Total

Sam Aiken: 58 YAC, 81 Total

Benjamin Watson: 51 YAC, 207 Total

PATS COMBINED: 1034 YAC, 2271 Total

YAC as percentage of total: 46%

Not only do we have conjectural hearsay from our Coach stating that our receivers don't run their routes properly (something that detracts from the QB's ability to deliver), but we have seen quite a few dropped passes by our receivers (I could not locate full stats on this for 2008, but the Pats' leading "droppers" are Moss with 5 and Welker with 4 this season while ours are Moss with 7 and ARE with 4). Link this to the stats above and you clearly have a better receiving corps at NE.

A better receiving corps helps the QB perform better and takes the pressure off the OL to save his butt from destruction after 4 seconds on EVERY pass play, as well as lessening dependence on the run.

[GC8 Bunta]

did you see that guy against the steelers last week? no better than campbell.

[zeroburrito]

did you see that guy against the steelers last week? no better than campbell.

i think he was going against the steelers(you know, havent allowed 1 300 yard game yet, first in all categories). i guarantee Romo sits to pee will look almost as bad this week.

[Passizle]

Cassel? Are you serious? His stats are just a hair better than Campbells and they have had a cake schedule this year.

Make me scrach my head a little.

Both are on teams with winning records

Both have essentially the same stats

But Campbell needs to be benched and Cassel is the second coming on Brady.

I dont get it.

I agree that Campbell has to step up his game. There is no doubt about that in my mind. But Cassel love... go figure.

[#98QBKiller]

I'd take him as Todd Collins' replacement.

[zeroburrito]

Cassel? Are you serious? His stats are just a hair better than Campbells and they have had a cake schedule this year.

Make me scrach my head a little.

Both are on teams with winning records

Both have essentially the same stats

But Campbell needs to be benched and Cassel is the second coming on Brady.

I dont get it.

I agree that Campbell has to step up his game. There is no doubt about that in my mind. But Cassel love... go figure.

he had 2 400 yard games back to back. this is the only reason he is in brady's league right now. eventually people will forget and cast him aside.

[fire3fighter4]

Cassel? Are you serious? His stats are just a hair better than Campbells and they have had a cake schedule this year.

Make me scrach my head a little.

Both are on teams with winning records

Both have essentially the same stats

But Campbell needs to be benched and Cassel is the second coming on Brady.

I dont get it.

I agree that Campbell has to step up his game. There is no doubt about that in my mind. But Cassel love... go figure.

In one less game:

Cassel has:

224 more yards, 5 more TD's, and 6 more INTs, and has been sacked more then campbell

considering this is the first time the kids started since high school, I'd say he's doing pretty damn good. MUCH better than Campbell started out.

As for the schedule part...We've played Cleveland, seattle, detroit, arizona, st louis, and new oreleans.....all of those teams rank in the bottom 15 for pass D. Talking about schedules isn't much of an argument.

[zeroburrito]

In one less game:

Cassel has:

224 more yards, 5 more TD's, and 6 more INTs, and has been sacked more then campbell

considering this is the first time the kids started since high school, I'd say he's doing pretty damn good. MUCH better than Campbell started out.

As for the schedule part...We've played Cleveland, seattle, detroit, arizona, st louis, and new oreleans.....all of those teams rank in the bottom 15 for pass D. Talking about schedules isn't much of an argument.

i don't think anyone is saying cassel isn't better than campbell. they just don't think the upgrade is worth it.

[taylorcoreskin]

In one less game:

Cassel has:

224 more yards, 5 more TD's, and 6 more INTs, and has been sacked more then campbell

considering this is the first time the kids started since high school, I'd say he's doing pretty damn good. MUCH better than Campbell started out.

As for the schedule part...We've played Cleveland, seattle, detroit, arizona, st louis, and new oreleans.....all of those teams rank in the bottom 15 for pass D. Talking about schedules isn't much of an argument.

Cassel seems like a point producing juggernaut compared to JC. Our offense could use a QB that produces touchdowns...