codeorama Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 I will actually side with Kilmer on this one. They are all poor. And I am offended that one race can have support groups while another cannot. That sounds like racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigchuck Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Originally posted by RUready I blame the parents.:puke: [/quote Definetly. They should be held accountable as well as the administration.:shootinth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDiplomat Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 It's disgusting. But on both sides. Just as I am sickened by "black student associations" and "gay proms". I am disgusted by the notion that white kids feel the need to be exclusionary based on race and moreso that their parents are allowing it. Well I'm an African-American sophmore at a school in North Carolina and presently we do not have any "black student associations". We do have an Afro-centric club, but it is not exclusive to African-American students. You shouldn't be sickened by black student associations or white one's as long as all races are excepted into them. As to what they are doing at this high school in Ga, it is morally wrong because they are making student attendance of two different proms based on race. So i agree and disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 It is morally wrong, but they do have right to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDiplomat Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Originally posted by luckydevi It is morally wrong, but they do have right to do it Very true. Im not arguing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 It's not a matter of whether they can. It's a matter of whether they should. It's not just because it's morally wrong, it's also what it represents. To get an idea First. Look at the date. Contrary to what some may think, that wasn't all that long ago. 40 years. Second. Take a good look at what this great man spoke of. The incidents he describes. In essence, not altogether unlike that which is now going on in that school. I lived in Alabama in the 60's. Seen and experience some of what he describes. Just becuase there is a right to do so, deoesn't mean it should be exercised. The administration and the parents should, and probably do understand this. Really doesn't say a whole lot for them. Oh and Jack, that's almost as simplistic of a point of view to teach as what they are teaching there. NO...not reality..not the whole of it anyway. "I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDiplomat Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Good Post PCS. I agree with you an all fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Racism is a tough thing for me. I didn't grow up with parents or relatives telling me other races were different or any less. Race was never an issue. But as I have become older, I have seen racism and I have experienced reverse racism on the job. Race should not be an issue. Period. But in order for it to stop being an issue, it has to completely stop being an issue. Affirmative Action is racism. It creates more racism. People are going to end up being more racist (all colors) because they are tired of being shafted in some way. I personally believe that the generation of white people that grew up the same time I did were not generally raised racist in nature. We didn't live through segragation, we didn't see separate bath rooms. It is hard for us to understand the claims of inequality at times. That's just my point of view. No offense was intended towards anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASMTrainer Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 I wish I would have read this before I had eaten. This is a total disgrace. To think this still goes on in the year 2003. The parents are to blame for the kids acting this way. I'm a true believer that it all starts at home. That's why this world is going to hell in hand basket now.:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I suppose its a good thing, ultimately, that this IS news. That something like this is now so outrageous in this country that CNN is having a special on it Monday morning. And that we are all so shocked and offended by it all. Maybe there's hope for this country after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSF Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 What gets me is that they havent had an integrated one until last year. Unreal. This whole article is beyond disheartening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Both my high school and my college had forms of black student associations. Neither were inclusive groups. And while I have serious problems with groups that celebrate differences, as long as they are inclusive, I cant disagree with their right to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFan01 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 the sad part about it is that no one down here in georgia really cares, this article was in the paper the day of the prom, i live in columbus(where the private white only prom was held) and there was not any thing made of it. i personally dont understand why parents would want to put this kind of racism in thier childs mind. the highschool in question here should really be embarrassed, as should the people who own the building where it was put on in columbus. Columbus is a military town with pretty big diversity so we dont really see many race issues like this one, this whole prom thing is just plain crazy. my question is this, do the parents who sponser this understand that they are contributing to a problem of race relations? It wouldnt suprise me if more issues arise from that area in the upcoming months regarding race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 This morning on Boortz he was talking about it (and like most of us he was against it) and an interesting point came out. The 2 president system was started by the black students. Just an FYI, both sides may bear some fault in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Hog Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Originally posted by luckydevi It is morally wrong, but they do have right to do it In this case, an inalienable right, endowed by our Creator, to commit immoral acts - but I'll still take it over a life in Iraq! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 If this were just some spur of the moment racist sentiment I would think, "WTF"... the scary thing is that for 31 YEARS before LAST YEAR'S PROM it was ALWAYS SEGREGATED.:doh: I have to disagree with whoever used the Augusta National example. A public institute of learning is funded by taxpayers. Though the event is private it is still a problem. Can we drop JDams on the Deep South and California and call it even? (To all my Southern friends. That was a JOKE... lighten up.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 YOU KNOW WHAT?!?!? It took 4,000 Americans to be murdered by terrorists to get whites and blacks to go to the prom together... then it took less than a year to forget.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 At the beginning of the new millennium, the United States is, in important ways, a different country from the one the Framers envisioned. The principal racial issues confronting the Framers were the conquest of Indian nations and the perpetuation of black slavery. Our historical and cultural inheritance includes the unresolved legacy of those early racial dilemmas as well as additional, complex racial issues that we confront today as a result of our demographics. For example, are African Americans and Mexican Americans due reparations, as the government decided were due to Japanese American families imprisoned during World War II? Should members of these groups receive a formal apology for the treatment suffered by their ancestors, as Congress expressed in a recent joint resolution apologizing for the colonization of Native Hawaiians? Should African Americans and members of other racial minority groups receive affirmative action in hiring, government contracting, and admissions to higher education? What, if anything, should be done to improve the legislative representation of minority groups, who may otherwise be outvoted consistently? What happens when one group uses a constitutional right, such as free speech, to demean and hector another? How can tensions between racial groups be eased? In the end, how can we do more justice in our racially diverse society? As of 1997, persons of color constituted nearly one-third of the U.S. population: African Americans (12.7%); Latinos/as (11%); Asian Americans (3.7%); and American Indians (.9%) Because these groups are growing more rapidly than Whites, persons of color will likely outnumber Whites in the United States sometime near the middle of the next century. The demographics of our future will become ever more complex, more multiracial, as members of different racial groups intermarry, adding to the racial complexity already evident today. Each of us has taught and written about race for most of our careers. We have all confronted the need for and the difficulty of assembling varied interdisciplinary and historical materials to cover race and racism comprehensively, in a manner that accounted for each of the principal racial groups in the United States—African Americans, Indians, Latinos/as, Asian Americans, and Whites. Many discussions of race and racism in the United States focus solely on the experiences of racial minorities. It is just as important, in our view, to focus on the development of "Whiteness" and the white race. Demonstrating the evolution of racial categories, membership in the white race has changed over time for complex reasons. For example, Irish immigrants during the nineteenth century and European immigrants of the early twentieth century used to be considered nonwhite. Today, persons with such ancestry are considered White. How did this happen? Whiteness, the unstated norm of racial identity in the United States, requires close examination and study just as other racial identities do. Notice that much seemingly unrelated law fits together when race and racism are used as organizing principles. The law of slavery and the ceaseless African—American struggle for civil rights are essential to understanding the development of doctrines of equality under the Constitution and statutory law. A different process—conquest, and its legal ratification by Congress and justification by the Supreme Court—is essential to understanding the racialization of Indians, Mexican Americans, and Puerto Ricans. Immigration law also plays a crucial role in the law of race. Supreme Court decisions upholding Chinese exclusion and Alien Land Laws are central in producing the racialization of Asian Americans. And the Supreme Court*s many determinations of who was "White" and who was not for purposes of naturalized citizenship were of crucial importance in defining the legal bounds of Whiteness. Points to Ponder Look for the assumptions underlying discussions about race and state them. Many implicit assumptions, when articulated to the world, demonstrate their own inadequacy. Is one racial group being privileged over another? What unstated assumptions about gender, sexual orientation, wealth, or physical ability are part of discussions about race? What perspective is being universalized as the perspective for all people? Is that view really representative and objective? Is "the way things are" being used to perpetuate oppression? In a country based on the ideal of democratic inclusion, consider whether race is being used to foster that inclusion. We/they thinking is usually designed to render some group outside the polis. Who is defining the included "we" and for what purpose? Be skeptical of traditional .. arguments to avoid change such as "the slippery slope," the intent of the framers (who excluded from voting representation Indians, women of all colors, and only counted African Americans as 3/5 persons), or reliance on discriminatory precedent. Ask the question, "What is a just result that fosters democratic inclusion?" Practices, rules, and legal doctrines often benefit one group (usually the majority) at the expense of another. Ask yourself, why was this rule adopted and who benefits from its observance? If a rule turns out to be unfair, what prevents us from changing it? Much remains to be done. In the hope that a comparative, historical, and politically engaged discussion of race can begin to illume what has been called—and what seems to remain—America's most intractable problem. http://academic.udayton.edu/race/syllabi/race/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgo-13 Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Originally posted by codeorama Racism is a tough thing for me. I didn't grow up with parents or relatives telling me other races were different or any less. Race was never an issue. But as I have become older, I have seen racism and I have experienced reverse racism on the job. Race should not be an issue. Period. But in order for it to stop being an issue, it has to completely stop being an issue. Affirmative Action is racism. It creates more racism. People are going to end up being more racist (all colors) because they are tired of being shafted in some way. I personally believe that the generation of white people that grew up the same time I did were not generally raised racist in nature. We didn't live through segragation, we didn't see separate bath rooms. It is hard for us to understand the claims of inequality at times. That's just my point of view. No offense was intended towards anyone. I agree with you Code. I also think that it has to stop somewhere. My father grew up in Nazi Germany and my mom grew up in a very racist town in Southern Illinois near Kentucky. But they both were educated and knew right from wrong and taught me and my siblings how stupid racism really was. Now I find myself being discriminated against as I apply to law school because I am a white male. I was considering Michigan Law, but have been told by many people that I "need not apply" because of my race and gender. I have always treated people of other races with respect and consider many to be good friends, but now I am the one who's face is being spit in. I am being punished for the sins of people before me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Originally posted by escholz I am being punished for the sins of people before me. Excellent Point. I think that says it all.:notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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