Zorn was clearly outcoached

[HighOnHendrix]

This team cannot score touchdowns plain and simple. We can work the ball from 20 to 20 (except for this game) and once we hit the red zone' date=' I have no confidence in them being able to punch it in and that starts with play calling. [/quote']

You are completely right...so far. The touchdowns will come as the offense comes together and gels more and Zorn gets his act together with calling the plays. It will happen.

[HighOnHendrix]

The Steelers were ALL OVER that 4th down goal line play. They would have stuffed the run, and they had every possible receiver double-covered. That's just knowing your opponent, ladies and gentlemen.

I haven't seen the whole game yet, but I did see that play. What was Zorn thinking right then? We are not the New England Patriots of years past. Campbell is Campbell, not Favre or Brady. Don't expect him to pull a Favre out of his ass. They should have ran it no question. Only a half yard, for crying out loud.

[NomadicSkinFan]

Zorn was clueless last night. If a team can stop Portis and rattle Campbell, the offense will fold.

Please name one team in the league that is still good when you stop their running back and put constant pressure on their QB... That's what I thought.

[Captain_Sap's Skins]

You are completely right...so far. The touchdowns will come as the offense comes together and gels more and Zorn gets his act together with calling the plays. It will happen.

Man, I hope you're right. I know it was Pittsburgh and all but this offense has been worrying me for a while. I just hope the nice 1st half record doesn't become all for not. I don't know how I would handle this team collapsing.

[darrelgreenie]

Dick LeBeau has been coaching for like 800 years. We're talking about the same D that owns the likes of Brady and Manning regularly.

Dick LeBeau probably knows the WCO at least as well as Zorn does.

He probably looked at our formations and knew exactly what the play call was, i just picture him looking at our formation and thinking oh that's...... Red Right Slot 50 X Spot. And it looked like he had Zorn's number and therefore Campbells and the offensive lines.

[HighOnHendrix]

Zorn's Offense got both outcoached and outschemed. He looked like SOS out there tonight. These things happen and all we can do is hope he learns from them. Either way, he has already exceeded my expectations for this year. I'll be happy as long as he shows he's learning.

I'm glad to see that most of us here are keeping a level head instead of torching him. I'm disappointed in the calls Zorn made last nite, but I'm confident they will not be repeated anytime soon, hopefully not ever. 6-3 is really good for a first year coach.

[Hollywood1127]

I don't believe that he was out coached. There were a lot of things that should have been done that weren't done. One, they should not have tried to run the ball up the middle with Portis. Instead, they should have down screen passes to the side and had either him or Sean Alexander run the ball up the side, just like Carolina did to us in the pre-season. Two, there was a lack of offensive line protection for Jason Campbell. 95% of the game he was under preasure and had to get rid of the ball quick. Thats when Zorn should have put his foot down and replaced some of the first string o-line men with back ups. Three, Campbell should have been taken out the game for the rest and replaced with Collins. Not to say that Campbell was bad, but last night was not his night to be QB, and to me Collins would have reacted more quicker and smarter in a tight situation. Four, the second half of the game should have been no hudles for the Redskins because the Steelers D was blitzing left and right and giving them time to set up was not the right choice. Five, why in the world did Jim Zorn try to throw the ball in the inzone rather than running it up the side with Sean Alexander? That made no sense. The ball could have been intercepted and ran all the way back but we were lucky they decided to knock it out the air.

Another thing that I saw last night were one sided calls that favored the Steelers. There was a pass interference that was done but for some reason the refs did not throw a flag. Not too long after that, the Steelers intercepted the ball and was hit by a Redskins offensive line men, and if I'm correct the ball was knocked loose. It was debated weather the Steelers player had full procession of the ball. I don't think he had procession of the ball, because it was not in a full lock in his palm and finger tips. It looked more as if the side of his arms were tightly hugging it. And then there was the scramble by Campbell for the touchdown. It was clear to see that it was an attempt for a slide in the in zone, which I think was a good call by the official that ruled it touchdown. But when the Steelers guy went and challenged it the lead official changed his mind and ruled it dead at the 1 yard line. I believe it was a slide to get into the in zone. Lets not mention if it had been Pittsburgh they would have ruled it as a touchdown.

[gortiz]

I'll agree with this with a grain of salt ...

JZ is a rookie head coach and Lebeau is a FREAKING WITCH. he's sick. HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU BRING SO MUCH PRESSURE AND STILL KEEP EVERYONE COVERED. It was amazing.

zorn was flat out overmatched and not ready for this. Besides the sprint out I didn't see anything to counter act the steelers d.

I was waitign for more draws, and more runs up the middle cause the steelers were coming so hard off the edges.

[Cooley4President]

I'll agree with this with a grain of salt ...

JZ is a rookie head coach and Lebeau is a FREAKING WITCH. he's sick. HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU BRING SO MUCH PRESSURE AND STILL KEEP EVERYONE COVERED. It was amazing.

I agree. Is it that big of a surprise when arguably the top D-coordinator in the league (or at least top 3) out-coaches a rookie play caller?

[TheLongshot]

There is no shame in being outcoached by one of the best D-Coordinators in the game. Considering the differences in experience there, this should have been expected to a certain extent.

Jason

[TimmySmith]

My point is not that Lebeau simply outcoached Zorn in his preparation, which could be expected. Zorn never appeared to make any adjustments. He ran in plays late, and at one point late in the game, 30 seconds ran off the clock while a play was called, and then the Skins were forced to call timeout. He was in way over his head. I simply wanted to see a spark of something late, just to build on. Nothing changed.

Saying he was overmatched does not mean I don't like him.

[gortiz]

I agree. Is it that big of a surprise when arguably the top D-coordinator in the league (or at least top 3) out-coaches a rookie play caller?

by far the top 5 smartest thing said today ...

[Never4get#21]

It's not hard to be out coached when you call the same pump fake right, throw left play 4 times and the same sweep play 3 times and the same off tackle run play 3 times.. There was very little imagination in the playcalling last night. If anyone lost us the game, imo it was the coaches.

Is it that or are DC getting adjusted to Zorn's vanilla offense. He was clearly out coached. We had Moss open on that double move early in the game, but JC threw it short. We need to open up this offense and we need to get more players involved. When we beat Dallas and the Iggles JC hit roughly 7 different receivers. What's Zorn doing?!

[darrelgreenie]

zorn was flat out overmatched and not ready for this. Besides the sprint out I didn't see anything to counter act the steelers d.

I think Zorn will learn from this. He's gonna have to get out of his WCO comfort zone and have some specific plays to counter specific defensive schemes.

Besides the sprint out I didn't see anything to counter act the steelers d.

I wish i recorded the game, but i remember the Steelers playing at least 8 yards off the receivers probably more.

And it looked like Pittsburgh sometimes dropped a backer or lineman into that passing lane where we liked to throw our normal slants, hitches and square ins.

IMO the quick out, comeback, deep in, arrow, post would have been effective. Oh! and the wide receiver screen!!

or go max protect and runs some more vertical routes!! but that's not typical WCO

[Hollywood1127]

Zorn is giving way too much hype in Clinton Portis. Portis feels that his career is being threatened by Sean Alexander and Ladell Betts, which could easily be possible. Don't get me wrong Portis is a good running back but he really is not the spot light in Jim Zorn's west coast offense. Zorn is bringing about a lot of people from his former team, The Sea Hawks. I believe that Zorn would rather work with Sean Alexander, rather than toying around with the egotistic Clinton Portis. The only reason why Betts fits into his system is because he is a power runner, while Portis gets blown away on a tackle.

As for the coaching by Zorn last night, it was weird that we were not using all our receivers like we did against Dallas. I have seen all weird coaching strategies but I don't have a clue as to why Cooley was not used a whole lot more like we used him against Detroit. If you ask me, thats the guy who should have gotten the ball a whole lot more than Portis. I saw a lot of open men on plays but Campbell did not throw it to any of them. 95% of the game was running the ball which was clearly not going to work against the Steelers defense. The change in offense should have been made earlier on in the second half rather than waiting until the last 4 minutes of the game to make a transaction.

[JoeJGibbs]

I was screaming for screen passes. Finally they ran one and it got about 20 yards. Then we threw a pick. lol.

[JoeGibbsRypenGClark91]

I keep laughing at when people call him an aggresive OC. He is no where as aggresive as Saunders. Thats why Campbell has 2 turnovers. The Redskins ran at least 2 deep fades a game last year. A few deep balls. Zorn has real simplied and made the offense simple.

They want a modified Jaguars offense that they run for their QB. Pound it and only throw if a man open.

[JdoubleU]

When it became apparent the Skins would have to go to the passing game, I would have put Sellers in for pass blocking. I think I saw Cartwright get manhandled more than a few time as a blocker. Would have been nice to go max protect and go deep if only to get a PI call (ala the Steelers).

[jthor99]

Here's my issue. How can any of use actually form a solid opinion on Zorn's playcalling when the OL never allowed Campbell enough time to actually execute any of it?

It's easy to sit here and by Monday Morning QB (or Tuesday for that matter). The Steelers pinned there ears back last night and did exactly what the Giants did against us opening night. The fact that our running game basically consisted of 1 and 2 yrd runs followed my getting stuffed in the backfield allowed Dick Lebeau to blitz on obvious passing downs.

The OP talked about misdirections and rollouts. I thought we saw some of those things. One play that clearly stands out in my mind because I literally thought Jason Campbell was dead was in the 3rd quarter when Campbell rolled to his right and the Steelers brought a blitz from that side. Todd Yoder made I guess what he considered a "block" diving at the feet that the blitzing LB. Then Jason Campbell got slammed into the ground

[Hollywood1127]

Zorn wants more of the aggressive Sea Hawks offense. He wants the Redskins to be on the same level offensively and defensively that the Sea Hawks were last year. That level of offense is known to put up atleast 30 points a game against very crappy teams like St. Louis, Detroit, and Arizona. To get that level of offense Zorn has to get more people involved in the game. Rather than having certain people on offense do specific, things, if given the opportunity, they could also be used as receivers if they get open. Those open men also have to be able to run the ball once they get it. Redskins have always had a problem running the ball up to speed once they get a catch.

And yes, more screen passes would work. Carolina killed us in the pre season doing screen passes. All they did was pass it to the side to their running back and had him run it up the side.

[Saqs]

Here's my issue. How can any of use actually form a solid opinion on Zorn's playcalling when the OL never allowed Campbell enough time to actually execute any of it?

Because a great playcaller calls things to counteract an overagrresive defense. Zorn kept things remarkably basic last night. Stretch runs, pump fake draws, 3 step drops. That was pretty much all that was run all night. No reverses, no tosses, 1 screen. Everything he called last night is on tape for everyone to disect.

[TimmySmith]

Here's my issue. How can any of use actually form a solid opinion on Zorn's playcalling when the OL never allowed Campbell enough time to actually execute any of it?

Part of the coaches job is find ways to protect. I cannot remember Sellers on the field as another blocker, but I saw Cartwright plenty. What was that about? I also cannot remember a single designed roll-out. How about a reverse? How about a sweep? How about 3 steps back and heave it? Good coaches do not use gadget plays only to score. They use them give the defense something to think about. Anything to force the defense to slow their attack.

[JoeGibbsRypenGClark91]

Here's my issue. How can any of use actually form a solid opinion on Zorn's playcalling when the OL never allowed Campbell enough time to actually execute any of it?

It's easy to sit here and by Monday Morning QB (or Tuesday for that matter). The Steelers pinned there ears back last night and did exactly what the Giants did against us opening night. The fact that our running game basically consisted of 1 and 2 yrd runs followed my getting stuffed in the backfield allowed Dick Lebeau to blitz on obvious passing downs.

The OP talked about misdirections and rollouts. I thought we saw some of those things. One play that clearly stands out in my mind because I literally thought Jason Campbell was dead was in the 3rd quarter when Campbell rolled to his right and the Steelers brought a blitz from that side. Todd Yoder made I guess what he considered a "block" diving at the feet that the blitzing LB. Then Jason Campbell got slammed into the ground

NOW YOU SEE JOE GIBBS deliemma. Its hard to say GO OUT AND BE AGGRESIVE. 4 WIDE! When you have a QB who makes slow decesions and your online is poor at pass blocking.

[TheLongshot]

And yes, more screen passes would work. Carolina killed us in the pre season doing screen passes. All they did was pass it to the side to their running back and had him run it up the side.

I don't know if more screens would have worked. They were pretty good at smelling out the WR screen and they were very quick in reacting to any misdirection. While they rush the QB as good as anyone, but they are pretty disiplined about it and are very good at not being out of position.

Jason

[jthor99]

Part of the coaches job is find ways to protect. I cannot remember Sellers on the field as another blocker, but I saw Cartwright plenty. What was that about? I also cannot remember a single designed roll-out. How about a reverse? How about a sweep? How about 3 steps back and heave it? Good coaches do not use gadget plays only to score. They use them give the defense something to think about. Anything to force the defense to slow their attack.

You can't remember a single design rollout? I can remember 2 right off the top of my head. One to Cooley, and the dreaded one to Alexander on the 4th down try in the red zone. Now, I didn't disagree with the call there I disagreed with the personel package he had in at the time.

Gadget plays must be set up by a fluent offense. We couldn't even get a first down on a passing play, but yet you want to start running gadget plays?

Gadget plays will only force a defense to slow there attack if there used multiple times. Plus, would a gadget play honestly really worked last night the way our OL was getting manhandled? I seriously doubt it.