Where Are The Baathist Leaders?

[TennesseeCarl]

I'm not trying to bring anyone down or diminish the incredible scope of victory in Iraq, but what's become of all the leaders?

We're not sure about Saddam and his sons. We think the Brits got 'Chemical' Ali. The troops are carrying cards with photos of the top 55 'Baathist Bad Boyz'.

Where the heck have they disappeared to? Where's Baghdad Bob or Tariq Aziz?

Have we taken any higher ups at all?

[Riggo-toni]

Syria, probably. Maybe a few in Tikrit.

[NavyDave]

Makes a lot of sense that they would be in Syria since that country is ran by Baathist dictator also.

[Riggo-toni]

And like Saddam, Assad is from a sect (Alawite) that is a minority in his country, ruling a multiethnic society (Sunni, Alawite, Kurd, and Druse).

[Yomar]

I'd like to know more about the Russian Embassy envoy, but the one thing I can't quite figure out in regards to the russian conspiracy theory is what they would have to gain...although I guess I could see a few billion doing the trick...maybe...

[Tommy-the-Greek]

They are in Syria or Jordan. I think the Iraqi UN Ambassador just left for Syria. We should follow him back to the nest and grab the others. This will be very tricky. We can't just lob a tomahawk on them or have a commando team go in and get them.

We will have to give Syria an ultimatum. That will give them a chance to flee like roaches when the light is turned on. This will allow special agents to round them up and bring them back across the border to awaiting military ground troops. This will be more of a James Bond action then a rambo mission.

[Die Hard]

Originally posted by tommy-the-greek

They are in Syria or Jordan. I think the Iraqi UN Ambassador just left for Syria. We should follow him back to the nest and grab the others. This will be very tricky. We can't just lob a tomahawk on them or have a commando team go in and get them.

We will have to give Syria an ultimatum. That will give them a chance to flee like roaches when the light is turned on. This will allow special agents to round them up and bring them back across the border to awaiting military ground troops. This will be more of a James Bond action then a rambo mission.

Can they though Tom? Do Americans have the right to? I thought the goal here was to eliminate the regime and free the Iraqi people.

For all intents and purposes... they've done so.

Now, the Baath party officials aren't guilty of committing war crimes either. So what grounds do the Americans have for chasing these leaders across to globe? And what would they plan to do with them anyways?

Really... I'm just curious throwing out some questions here.

[Tarhog]

We don't need any of them. We ought to publicly and diplomatically inform Syria of several things however:

1) Syria will be held accountable and subject to military retaliation for any hostile acts traced to Baath Party Regime officials (whether in Iraq, Israel, US, or elsewhere).

2) Syria will likewise be held accountable should any of these individuals attempt to return to Iraq at any time.

Other than that, let the roaches scatter. We don't have a lot of options anyway, unless we want to do some covert looking and help some of them meet unfortunate ends.

[Riggo-toni]

Odds are we intentionally allowed several of these guys to flee in exchange for them not unleashing chemical weapons. Small price to pay, if true.

[redman]

The newly-free Iraqis - particularly the Shiites and the Kurds - will I suspect have a great interest in tracking many of these leaders down to bring them to justice for crimes against humanity and things of that nature. I'm sure we'll be happy to help for symbolic reasons.

As for Syria, they're learning the old adage about not throwing stones when you live in a glass house. In this case, they're helping the remnants of a regime who we attacked for doing much the same kinds of things that they've done for many, many years: sponsor terrorism; develop chemical weapons; undermine U.S. interests, and repress their own people.

Life was a lot more comfortable for them when they were overshadowed by Saddam's Iraq, Kadafi's Libya, the Arab-Israeli conflict, and Iran. Now, Saddam's gone, Kadafi's been cowed for a decade and a half, there's (supposedly) a "roadmap" to peace in Israel, and Iran is actually making apparent overtures to us. I have to think that the Syrians have overplayed their hand a bit here. They're going to learn a harsh set of lessons about American economic might as they sweat things out under the guns of our military in neighboring Iraq.

[redman]

A quick web search yielded this interesting background on the Baath movement from damascus-online.com:

Baath Party, formally the Baath Arab Socialist Party. political party and movement influential among Arab communities in the Middle East, especially in Syria and Iraq. The Baath Party was from the beginning a secular Arab nationalist party. Socialism (not Marxism) was quickly adopted as the party’s economic dogma: “Unity [Arab], Freedom [from colonialism], and Socialism” are still the watchwords.

From its earliest development, the motivation behind Baathist political thought and its leading supporters was the need to produce a means of reasserting the Arab spirit in the face of foreign domination. Moral and cultural deterioration, it was felt, had so weakened the Arabs that Western supremacy spread throughout the Middle East. Arabs needed a regeneration of the common heritage of people in the region to drive off debilitating external influences.

Articulated as the principle of Arab nationalism, the Baath movement was one of several political groups that drew legitimacy from an essentially reactive ideology. Nevertheless, Baathist ideology spread slowly by educating followers to its intellectual attractions.

The three major proponents of early Baathist thought, Zaki al-Arsuzi, Salah al-Din al-Bitar, and Michel Aflaq, were middle-class educators whose political thought had been influenced by Western education. During the 1930s Arsuzi, Salah, and Aflaq expounded their vision of Arab nationalism to small audiences in Syria. By the early 1940s Salah and Aflaq had taken the initiative to extend the movement’s operations in Damascus by organizing demonstrations in support of Rashid Ali al-Kailani’s government in Iraq against the British presence there. By 1945 the word baath (Arabic for “resurrection” or “renaissance”) had been applied to what was then officially a party rather than a movement.

The official founding of the party may be dated from its first party congress in Damascus on April 7, 1947, when a constitution was approved and an executive committee established. However, significant expansion beyond Syria’s borders took place only after the war of 1948, when lack of Arab unity was widely perceived as responsible for the loss of Palestine to the new state of Israel. The Iraqi branch of the Baath party was established in 1954 after the merger of the Baath with Akram al-Hurani’s Arab Socialist Party in 1952, to form the Arab Baath Socialist Party.

In February 1963 the Baath Party came to power in Iraq and one month later, in March 8, it came to power in Syria after the March Revolution. Inter-party disagreements were one of the major factors that led to the Correction Movement led by Hafez al-Assad, the movement ended years of conflict within the party. A new constitution, approved in 1973, stated that the Baath Party is “leading party in the state and society”. In 1972, the Baath also became the leader of the 7 Syrian parties forming the National Progressive Front NPF. The national committee of the Baath is the effectively the decision making body in Syria. Number of members in Syria exceeds million.

This should help explain a bit more why we suspect so many are fleeing to Syria. Interesting, no?

[Tommy-the-Greek]

DH, I am not talking about every single Baath party member. I am refering to the big dogs. There are thousands of members but only a few dozen who deserve to stand trial. The top members are responsible for war crimes. They should be rounded up and brought to justice. I am not referring to american justice. They should be judged by the Iraqi people in an all Iraqi court. In my mind the hard part will be to find judges who arent baath party members.