Fans Not Being Fair to Snyder, Vinny, and Zorn Right Now

[kleese]

Dan Snyder just can't shake the rep. he (somewhat deservedly) earned SEVEN years ago. There is this perception that he is an impatient, meddlesome, owner, who only cares about money.

Perhaps this applied in 2001, but since then, I really don't think that has been the case.

Let's face it, Steve Spurrier fired HIMSELF. The guy quit with about 5 games left in the 2003 season. He totally packed it in. He was on the golf course (figuratively) by Dec. 1st. Dan Snyder didn't "pull the plug" on SOS, SOS did that himself.

Now, I think Snyder absolutely deserves criticism for HIRING SOS in the first place-- but the notion that he was impatient, meddlesome, or didn't give SOS the chances to succeed are simply not true.

Enter Gibbs.

Not only did Snyder convince Gibbs to come back, he gave him FULL authority. Gibbs ran this team for four years-- and I'm not sure that Snyder or Vinny had anything to do with anything during those 4 years. He handed the keys to Gibbs and let him drive.

This was supposed to be year 5 of Joe Gibbs. Not year one of Jim Zorn.

Gibbs had good personal reasons to step down when he did, but from a football standpoint, he really left Snyder and the Redskins high and dry. Gibbs built this team in a certain mold-- and he was fairly successful. We were a joke after the 2003 season and 4 years later, we had stabalized and had two playoff appearances under our belt.

In a 5 year plan, 2008 was probably going to be the "make or break" year for Gibbs II.

But the ST tragedy, coupled with the health of Gibbs' grandson simply zapped the energy Gibbs needed to complete that run.

Snyder did EVERYTHING in his power to get Gibbs to return-- Snyder did NOT want to make changes or hand the keys over to someone else. I don't think Snyder had as much as a mental list of possible replacements. I fully believe he was totally caught off guard and somewhat devestated when Gibbs retired.

I think the combo of losing Taylor forever and then losing Gibbs as part of the Redskins was a serious blow to Snyder.

So, once Gibbs was gone, what was Snyder to do?

Here is what I hope is happening:

--I hope Snyder learned some things from Gibbs. I hope he learned a bit iof humility, I hope he gained a sense of patience, and I hope he was able to extract the importance of "team" and "family." Gibbs had his flaws both as a coach and GM, but he WAS able to restore a certain pride to this franchise. When Gibbs got here, we were a joke. When, he left, we weren't champs, but as fans, we could hold our heads high once again. I hope Snyder learned from having such a great MAN run his organization for four years.

And I'm not ready to say that he hasn't.

So, when it was all said and done, Snyder was left with a team ready to enter year 5 of a plan.....be he was FORCED to start over at the top.

Let's examine the major criticisms of Snyder:

1. He always goes for the big splash: He certainly didn't do that this off-season, even after there could have been some panic after Gibbs left.

2. He's impatient and makes rash decisions: Again, not this time around. As a matter of fact, he was criticized for te exact opposite-- taking TOO long to make a decision. Gregg Williams would have been the "easy" choice. Fassel or Mariuci would have been the "safe" choice. He did neither. He rolled the dice a bit... but he did not do it to make headlines or get pats on the back. Hiring Zorn was a major out-of-the-box risk.

3. No GM to run the team: Believe me, I am NOT convinced Vinny is the man for the job-- not even close. But for the first time, at least Vinny is more than just a raquetball buddy for Snyder. He has an actual title and actual responsibility. We now have a GM and a coach, period. Perhpas Snyder chose the WRONG GM, but at least he hired one. I have SERIOUS doubts about Vinny, and I understand that he is almost a comical figure in DC, but I am willing to give him a chance.

4. No value for the draft: Well, we had 10 picks-- all 10 made the team. Were they the right picks? Will any have an impact? Remains to be seen. This class is not off to a good start, but it is entirely too early to make any significant judgements in that regard.

Bottom line, Snyder is NOT doing ANY of the things that he gets blasted for so regularly.

Perhaps Vinny and Zorn were AWFUL decisions. Perhaps they will prove to be terrible at their jobs-- that is certainly a possibility. And I am not telling ANY Redskins fans to have "faith" in this regime-- that would be silly.

But I do think that Snyder has made significant changes from a philisophical standpoint, and no one seems to realize that.

Now, if we have a bad season and Snyder goes nuts, fires Zorn, and goes after some big name-- I'd then have to say that he probably learned nothing from Gibbs, and that were we most likely doomed to keep repeating this losing cycle.

But until he does that, I am willing to see if Gibbs' good qualities rubbed off on our owner.

The FO was put in a horrible situation over the past 3 months of last season:

--The franchise's best player and best draft pick in years was murdered. I bet there are a lot of teams in the league that might be struggling a bit if their best player was suddenly killed. If Brian Westbrook was murdered last November, do you think people would be as high on the Eagles this year?

--The young QB gets injured and misses the pivotal games of the playoff run. This was problematic because we were unable to judge JC under that playoff push atmosphere. Had he been there, we may have had a clearer idea of what he was going into THIS season.

--Coach entering th 5th year of a 5 year plan retires suddenly.

Those are all tough blows for an owner to be dealt. I think he's handled it pretty well, and I want to see how this all pans out before I go nuts on anything.

Fans say they are "tired" of being patient and "starting over." But sometimes life deals you blows that force you to accept those things.

Yes, in many ways, we are "starting over" again. And it is certainly frustrating given the results of the past 17 years. But this particular "restart" was NOT self-inflicated. It was totally circumstantial, and in some ways, tragic.

[RedSunday]

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Which is why you needed to bring in an experienced coach here in the 1st place,Jim Fassel.

[kleese]

Which is why you needed to bring in an experienced coach here in the 1st place,Jim Fassel.

Maybe. Maybe not. I think we needed to hire the most talented potential head coach. Perhaps that was Fassel. Perhaps it was Zorn. Perhaps it was GW. I'm not sure. But I don't like the notion of hiring experience for the sake of experience.

[CRobi21]

Which is why you needed to bring in an experienced coach here in the 1st place,Jim Fassel.

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[Fear Our D!]

Great thread. I agree. Too many fans are jumping out of windows around here like it's the great depression. Give this team more than 60 minutes of playing actual football before you decide to string em up. Ridiculous the amount of overreacting and impatience around here right now.

[tonyriggins]

You said alot of things there that there will be disagreement with. He may not be doing some of the wrong things he did early in his ownership, but whatever he is doing now is not working. My judgment has been made up on him along time ago and it would take alot to change that. I am not going to be starting over with my opinion of him unless he shows me something, it has to be positive not neutral, not I'm not as bad as I was.

[ttr77]

Kleese...good points about Snyder. And perhaps he is vilified for the wrong reasons.

But the reason I don't like him is that this team is in no better shape now that it was the first season he owned it, yet the cost to see it has pretty much doubled. As the owner, he is responsible for the results. The results are not there.

[36HAMMER]

nice post, my only thing is that there were holes in this team that could have been filled with guys that wouldn't have cost us an arm and aleg. our secondary is shakey at best. springs is not the corner he once was. a step slower and injuries are coming back to the fore front for springs(something that happens to people when they get older). rogers is unsteady and smoot a bonafide number 2 cb. as it stands we don't have a real no 1 cb. springs is a question mark with his injuries and i really feel teams lick their collective chops when they look at our secondary. not only did we lose our best player in taylor but the rest of the secondary has taking a step backwards. tryon stinks and it will take years for him to ala a jimoh to be of help. torrance just plain ol terrible. we could have gotten d hall, f washington, f bryant, d o'neal. anyone of these guys would have helped but we acted like we had no problem, we do. lb help was also there to be had and they just again acted ass if we didn't need any help. i appreciate that they are doing things seemingly in the right way now but it is too little too late. with the age of this teams in certain areas we either needed to fill the holes or start over. we did neither and now are kinda stuck with too little picks to start over and not enough talent to win a superbowl.unless there is a drastic change in this oline play this is going to be a rough year.like i've said before when you are old your heart and passion don't deminish but your body just stops being able to do what it used to do. it's all of a sudden , no warning.thats why most teams try to stay young. our whole oline is over 30.with jansens injuries to his legs have sped up his problems, same with thomas. kendall also falls into this category being 35 and a small guard at 295 and rabach while being steady is not dominate and has trouble with bigger and stronger dt. samuel while a regular pro bowler is not held in the highest regard.the line should have been remade years ago.now it's in trouble and we will have to wait and see if they can play their way out of it.my beef is it didn't have to get to this point, with a real gm we wouldn't have gotten to this place.sorry for venting.

[Capt Rich Fla]

This has only two outcomes because of Snyder. Really good or embarassingly, wicked awful. He went out and did the unthinkable. He hired a coach with no coaching experience. That alone has everyone going :doh:. You see there is no room for a mistake now. Zorn has to be the second coming or it will be a disaster. I didn't wright the book, but you know this. The press is wetting themselves to get a piece of Snyder and if destroying Zorn in the process gets them that do you think they care. **** no.

[hail2skins]

Kleese, I think just everyone is in wait and see mode right now, and after so much coaching turnover, are willing to give Zorn a chance. But please tell me what you were thinking when we're down by 9 with 6 minutes left, 90 yards from paydirt, and Zorn calls two straight runs.

[McD5]

"Fans not being fair to Snyder, Vinny and Zorn right now"

More like the other way around kleese.

The fans continue to sell out the stadium, use the concessions and buy the merchandise.

They have.....and continue, to do their part supporting a regime of underperformance.

You cannot ask anymore from a fan that purchases season tickets. And if they are frustrated--they have a million reasons to be. No blame there at all. :2cents:

[Oldfan]

Judging from the Dan Snyder polls in this forum earlier in the preseason, which were very favorable. I'd say that the majority of members aren't buying into the unfair portrayals of the man.

It's not much of a problem.

[wiseguys4]

snyder should have stuck with continuity as he said he was going to do at gibbs retirement press conference and hired greg williams.

now we have undergone a whole new regime change which may work out in the next 3 years or so but its not going to happen this year.

[TheLongshot]

Which is why you needed to bring in an experienced coach here in the 1st place,Jim Fassel.

And he might have been leaning in that direction initially. I am hoping he changed his mind because he was impressed by Zorn and not because of the huge backlash against Fassel. Honestly, while the choice would have been boring, I probably would have been happy with it.

Zorn was a very ballsy choice, and really went against type for Snyder. Zorn was neither established nor a flashy choice. That's why I find it funny that a choice that was reviled back in Feb by the fan base is now the choice they wish the team made.

Same goes with Vinny. Vinny earned a lot of kudos for his draft, where he collected a lot of draft picks and picked some interesting players. But, because most of them are probably not going to make an immediate impact, that's all Vinny's fault. So far, I think Vinny has done a fine job in his first year running the show. We will see if it continues.

Jason

[Isifhan]

Kleese, I think just everyone is in wait and see mode right now,

Wait and see mode? Not on this board they aren't.

[NomadicSkinFan]

I'm so glad that the other teams are finally playing. I think after today, most Redskins fans won't be feeling so bad. They'll realize that a 16-7 loss against the SB champs is not such a devastating loss. They'll also realize that we don't have the worst coach and front office in the league... That distinction belongs to the Detriot Lions who are currently getting slaughtered by the FALCONS.

[tonyriggins]

Seems like there is always alot of optimism in the off and preseason. I guess I would need to lookup those polls, I find it somewhat hard to believe it could be positive. But I am hardcore negitive about Snyder. It gets frustrating to hear people actually say he is of the best owners when he is actually one of the worst!

[TheLongshot]

I'm so glad that the other teams are finally playing. I think after today, most Redskins fans won't be feeling so bad. They'll realize that a 16-7 loss against the SB champs is not such a devastating loss. They'll also realize that we don't have the worst coach and front office in the league... That distinction belongs to the Detriot Lions who are currently getting slaughtered by the FALCONS.

And the Eagles are having their way with the Rams.

Jason

[BillyKilmer]

The vocal part of this forum is made up of mostly reactionary's and parrots. You can go see it for yourself look-up any of the big moments bad or good for the franchise in the last few years. Post after post will be wrought with undisciplined emotions few add anything to our real understandings.

"Those who know the Least..Know it the loudest"

[Prosperity]

Snyder? WTF respect does Snyder reserve? All we get is a new marketing gimmick every year. I'm willing to be patient, but Snyder has not earned any respect.

[sellyoursol]

"Fans not being fair to Snyder, Vinny and Zorn right now"

More like the other way around kleese.

The fans continue to sell out the stadium, use the concessions and buy the merchandise.

They have.....and continue, to do their part supporting a regime of underperformance.

You cannot ask anymore from a fan that purchases season tickets. And if they are frustrated--they have a million reasons to be. No blame there at all. :2cents:

Wow...I agree with McD5.

[SnyderMustGo]

What BS.

I can't believe people still try to defend the personification of abject failure, Danny boy Snyder.

I'll just address your points:

1. He always goes for the big splash:

Guess you missed the part where Snyder tried to trade 2 first round picks for Chad Ocho Stinko. In other words, you are WRONG. Or when he traded for a former Defensive MVP when one of our players got hurt. Or going for flashy skill position players in the draft when we needed less-sexy meat-and-potatoes trench players.

2. He's impatient and makes rash decisions:

Rash decisions like hiring Zorn in the first place. As always, he wanted to copy Jerry Jones and hire a former QB that is a QB coach. So he picks up a guy that no one else was even calling on before picking his HC, thereby making the job less desirable. Surprise! None of the legit HC wanted the position after that because it was further evidence of a meddlesome owner.

Then he makes the rash decision of drafting 3 pass catchers in a row just because we needed 1 (while ignoring the more important needs in the trenches--just not as sexy picks there, though).

Then when Daniels goes down--with the lack of backup we have because our depth wasn't addressed in the draft--we give up quality draft picks for a guy who had been talking all summer about retiring. Mortgaging the future for a quick fix is not "rash" and "impatient" to you?? (Oh, I'm sorry, we did acquire depth before that when we sent a draft pick for an injured bust player).

3. No GM to run the team:

No real GM. Guess you are one of the suckers who bought him putting his lackey into the spot as if that made an actual change.

4. No value for the draft:

We didn't address our biggest needs on the lines. We drafted an idiot who teams had taken off their entire draft board because of his shot knees and then acted all surprised when we couldn't play. We took 3 pass catchers in a row when one would have been smart enough.

But I do think that Snyder has made significant changes from a philisophical standpoint, and no one seems to realize that.

Nope. He is still an embarrassment.

Guess you don't recall all the reports about how every other team in the league was laughing at us during the combine because of the way Idiot Boy botched the coaching search.

We now have a coach that is in over his head and trying to run an offense with our "franchise" qb that is the worst possible offense given his skills and limitations.

A decade of failure and one constant: Danny Snyder. And yet, for some reason, you still want to defend him? You aren't being fair to him. He's earned contempt, but by you defending him, you are enabling his failure. That is not being fair to him.

[Soup]

what happens if the skins go 3-13? How can the skins go into next year expecting any change. They have salary cap issues and 4 draft picks in 2009. They can't rebuild and bring in a new team for zorn. This is the team that will be the core of the Zorn era if he can't get the team together during this season, say end up 7-9 or 8-8, then Vinny and Snyder don't have anymore moves. I like Zorn and I hope they stick with him but the way Vinny and Snyder run this team is not for long term goal.

They Plan to win NOW just look at the way they run the team. The fans expect a good team because they go out and spend the cap and throw draft picks becasue they want to win now. That's why the fans are pissed and I'm with them. The FO has done this countless times this is not the first

[McD5]

And I agree 100% with SMG's comment about your #1 kleese.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Snyder again went for the big splash with 85.

The Bengals said no.

How exactly does the Bengals rejecting a big splash trade mean that Snyder has learned anything?

Seriously, was your number 1 supposed to be funny? Sarcastic?

[TWINSKINS]

Under Snyder this team has yet to win the nfc east THIS CENTURY!

Looks kind of bad doesn't it.

With little in the way of cap space and few draft picks for 2009 this team is not ready to re-build, so if zorn and campbell dont up their game you can see why there is frustration amongst the fan base.