Reactoin to Bush's use of Religion/Politics

[codeorama]

Bush Mix of God and War Grates on Many Europeans

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By Tom Heneghan

PARIS (Reuters) - The religious overtones in President Bush (news - web sites)'s speeches increasingly grate on many ears in Europe, where leaders invoking God in times of war are widely suspect of misusing faith for political purposes.

No less than the German president, French prime minister and Belgian foreign minister have joined religious leaders in expressing concern about Bush's beliefs and the place of religion in U.S. politics.

Media commentators, especially in northern European countries with Protestant heritages, have branded Bush's evangelical views as Christian fundamentalism, with some even comparing them to the Islamic fundamentalism of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites).

The discussion reflects both the widespread popular anti-war sentiment in Europe and the deeper gulf between a continent where faith is on the wane and an America where religious values probably play a more prominent political role than ever before.

German President Johannes Rau, a Protestant preacher's son who makes no secret of his own faith, reacted sharply this week on n-tv television to press reports that Bush believed defeating Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) was part of a divine plan.

"George Bush has got a completely one-sided message. I don't think a people gets a sign from God to liberate another people," he said. "Nowhere does the Bible call for crusades."

Belgian Foreign Minister Louis Michel, a vocal critic of the war, said before hostilities broke out last month that he saw Christian fundamentalism gaining influence in Washington and added: "That is, of course, a dangerous point of departure."

French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin, asked about a U.S. weekly's cover story on Bush and God, told Le Point magazine: "In no way can God be called on for a vote of confidence."

UNEASE AT GOD TALK

Bush's firm faith, rooted in an evangelical Protestantism that reflects an important voter bloc in his Republican party, has also prompted questions in mainstream U.S. media about how much it colors his stand on Iraq (news - web sites) and his war on terror.

In his speeches, he has asked for guidance from "the loving God behind all of life and all of history," hinted he believed there was a "divine plan" for the world and warned Americans that "we are in a conflict between good and evil."

These references may not seem so out of place in the United States, where all presidents say "God bless America" and "In God We Trust" is emblazoned on dollar bills.

But they stand out and sometimes even shock many Europeans who remember how German soldiers trooped off to World War One with "Gott mit uns" (God with us) stamped on their belt buckles.

"I believe George Bush's religious views are genuine," Cardinal Karl Lehmann, head of the German Bishop's Conference, told the Catholic weekly Rheinischer Merkur in an interview on Thursday. "But this careless way of using religious language is not acceptable anymore in today's world."

In Sweden, invoking God in politics is so unusual that parliamentarian Hans Lindqvist told Reuters: "I've never seen anything like this before."

Commentators in Britain, where Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites)'s firm but discreet Christian beliefs have also aroused critical attention, have described Bush as "chaplain in chief" and analyzed his use of religious phrases and images in detail.

"For world-weary Europe, the presidential language evokes mirth and queasiness in equal measure," The Independent wrote.

In France, where even practicing Catholic or Jewish politicians shrink from mentioning religion, the daily Le Monde reacted sharply last week to the news that the U.S. House of Representatives had called for a day of national prayer and fasting to secure divine blessings for U.S. troops in Iraq.

"This bizarre approach shocks Europeans," it said in an editorial. Its religion correspondent accused Bush and Iraqi President Saddam Hussein of "gross misuse" of religion.

"One is tempted to say the destiny of America is in the hands of a small group of Protestant bigots," Henri Tincq wrote.

The religious side of Bush's thinking has attracted much less public attention in traditionally Catholic countries such as Ireland, Italy and Spain, where the Roman church has lost most of the vast influence it used to wield in secular affairs.

Media there have focused mostly on whether the Iraq conflict is a just war, sometimes quoting the pronounced anti-war stand of Pope John Paul (news - web sites) II.

Russia, which in its old communist days might have churned out caustic criticism about the White House and "the opium of the people," has also shown little interest in Bush's beliefs.

"Politicians now routinely invoke God and Orthodoxy for all sorts of things," one longtime foreign resident remarked. "You can't open a billiard hall without an Orthodox priest present." (Additional reporting by Bart Crols in Brussels, Andrew Hay in London, Erik Kirschbaum in Berlin, Patrick McLoughlin in Stockholm, Ron Popeski in Moscow, Carlos Santamaria in Madrid, Estelle Shirbon in Rome and Kevin Smith in Dublin)

[Riggo-toni]

I don't mean to sound hostile to religion, but in one sense these critics have a valid point, and that is that any references to Christianity as an influence guiding this conflict feeds right into the hands of Muslim propagandists who are trying to portray us as modern day crusaders, and the war as one of Islam against Christianity. I don't doubt W's sincerity (whereas his father's "conversion" from staunch Pro-Choice Republican to Pro-Life in '92 was downright comical), but this is a time when officials need to be more diplomatic about their choice of words. Not because of Euro-reaction. I think I speak for most of us when I say - Screw them. But we will squander the greatest potential bounty from this victory - the development of Arab democracy - if we're not more circumspect.

[Buddha]

I'm an atheist and even I don't see much to this argument. At best it can be explained away as a cultural gap between the US and European nations, and at worst it's the deconstructive work of those left out of the Iraqi rebuilding plan.

[codeorama]

Originally posted by riggo-toni

I don't mean to sound hostile to religion, but in one sense these critics have a valid point, and that is that any references to Christianity as an influence guiding this conflict feeds right into the hands of Muslim propagandists who are trying to portray us as modern day crusaders, and the war as one of Islam against Christianity. I don't doubt W's sincerity (whereas his father's "conversion" from staunch Pro-Choice Republican to Pro-Life in '92 was downright comical), but this is a time when officials need to be more diplomatic about their choice of words. Not because of Euro-reaction. I think I speak for most of us when I say - Screw them. But we will squander the greatest potential bounty from this victory - the development of Arab democracy - if we're not more circumspect.

Riggo Excellent post.

I agree with you.

My biggest beef with Bush is that he alienates so many people. This does play into the hands of the Muslims who want an excuse for a Holy War. In the long term, I personally feel that Bush is creating more Anti American sentiment in the world. Sure, you can say that it was already there, but to constantly provoke those who already dislike us only brings more to their side.

Someone should make Bush take a class in diplomacy.

[Awgustlab]

I agree - I personally could do without all of Dubya's reference to God in all of hi speeches. Most of the time I just ignore the references because I do not relate to "God Bless America" type statements or any of the others anyways. I can see how some people would be offended, though, as many people go out there and look for things to be offended by just so they can ***** and moan about something. If I sitting in a room and people are paraying at the dinner table I do not pretend to be praying - I just sit there with my eyes opend and my hands in my lap and let everyone pray. I don't take part, but repect that others might need that and that's cool with me.

Personally I could care less that the Speedos are pissed about Bush's references to God. It is not their country or their leader so all they gotta do is STFU and put their hands in their laps and chill out.

P.S. Dubya - you might want to chill out too on the God sh!t. There are many in the military whose dogtags read "NORELPREF" or are of different faiths as well as the population of your country.

[codeorama]

Originally posted by Awgustlab

I agree - I personally could do without all of Dubya's reference to God in all of hi speeches. Most of the time I just ignore the references because I do not relate to "God Bless America" type statements or any of the others anyways. I can see how some people would be offended, though, as many people go out there and look for things to be offended by just so they can ***** and moan about something. If I sitting in a room and people are paraying at the dinner table I do not pretend to be praying - I just sit there with my eyes opend and my hands in my lap and let everyone pray. I don't take part, but repect that others might need that and that's cool with me.

Personally I could care less that the Speedos are pissed about Bush's references to God. It is not their country or their leader so all they gotta do is STFU and put their hands in their laps and chill out.

P.S. Dubya - you might want to chill out too on the God sh!t. There are many in the military whose dogtags read "NORELPREF" or are of different faiths as well as the population of your country.

Excellent post too... I just wanted to add that I didn't have a problem with the "God Bless America" types of stuff either..

[NavyDave]

Yeah right.

Germany still has the religious tax right? So much of your money is taxed if your are Catholic, etc.

I applaud the president for his moral base and convictions.

I seriously doubt a bunch of atheists would go out of their way to save the lives of Muslims or help the downtrodden like the christians have.

This country being founded on judeo christian principles is part of the reason why its the best and why for democracy in Iraq to work "mainstream(?)" Islam must be in place.

By that I mean there has to be a moral base for democracy to work.

[TennesseeCarl]

I have no desire to live in a theocracy and I find most of the Christian Coalition types to be fairly loopy but it seems hypocritical as h#ll to complain about Bush's speeches if they aren't going to complain about the rhetoric from virtually every single leader of an Islamic nation.

I take it there's a double standard. It's o.k. for Muslims, backwards folks that they are, to invoke Allah, but we cultured Christians should not discuss our religious beliefs.

[Awgustlab]

Originally posted by NavyDave

I seriously doubt a bunch of atheists would go out of their way to save the lives of Muslims or help the downtrodden like the christians have.

You don't think there are Atheists in the U.S. military right now over in Iraq doing everyhthng that the Christian soldiers are?

Sorry if I misunderstood your statement.

[Glenn X]

Originally posted by TennesseeCarl

I have no desire to live in a theocracy and I find most of the Christian Coalition types to be fairly loopy but it seems hypocritical as h#ll to complain about Bush's speeches if they aren't going to complain about the rhetoric from virtually every single leader of an Islamic nation.

I take it there's a double standard. It's o.k. for Muslims, backwards folks that they are, to invoke Allah, but we cultured Christians should not discuss our religious beliefs.

You nailed it, sir! Well said. :thumbsup:

Whoa! How funny is that that my 666/Mark of the Beast post was one about religion? [Cue the theme from The Twilight Zone]

[@DCGoldPants]

I could do without the "God" talk and would rather here about the spirit of Freedom and Humanity.

I want to hear about confidence in our fighters over there and the people here who are planning this. Not that God will see us through.

[Tarhog]

I pretty much have the same belief system as Awgust....but I think its hilarious that anyone else cares about (or feels oppressed by) what Bush's personal religious beliefs are. He's never said anything remotely approaching 'this is a religious crusade' or 'lets kill them because God told me it was right' and anyone who insinuates he has is a liar. The invocation of 'May God bless America' and 'May God bless our troops' really came to the forefront with Reagan. And now its just sort of the accepted close to Presidential speeches. I think its done as much to add formality and a sense of reverence to Presidential addresses, as it is to force any President's personal religious beliefs on others. Clinton did the same thing as I recall.

Europe hasn't been right about much of anything in recent memory, most of their residents think we're a bunch of ignorant 'cowboys', and resent our wealth and good fortune and are spoiling for new ways to criticise us. The way they paint it, Bush had 'In God we trust' put on all the money and Federal Buildings as well. Something like 90% of Americans claim to believe in God (so its got nothing to do with the 'Christian Coalition'). Referencing God in major speeches doesn't seem outrageous in light of that. I don't belong to an organized religion. And somehow I manage not to feel threatened by those that do. Lighten up world.