Art Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 No, Code, we won't agree to disagree. I've read the document and each Article. You haven't. We'll agree I, therefore, have bothered to educate myself on a point so I can speak on it and you haven't. Remember a thread not too long ago where you asked me about something and I begged off saying it would be better for others who knew more to speak on the topic? That's what we'll agree on. That you don't know as much as you should, so, you'll defer to people who've bothered to read the articles. And, when you have, if you want to agree to disagree, then we're square. Until then, you're flatly wrong because you've chosen to parrot words fed to you rather than actually informing yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Ok Art, I took your advice, here is the Geneva Convention code on POW's. Geneva Convention on treatment of POWs Adopted on August 12, 1949, at a conference in Geneva on protecting war victims, it came into force on October 21, 1950. Article 13 states: "Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated ... Prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity." Article 14 states: "Prisoners of war are entitled in all circumstances to respect for the persons and their honour." I stand by my opinion.. Note Article 13... Prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly agains acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and PUBLIC CURIOSITY. There is not a note of "if they are being processed" or what ever excuses you might add. There is also no note anywhere of whether it is state sponsored or not.. Again, before you bring it up... This is NOT an excuse for what Al Jazerra did... they were OBVIOUSLY wrong, even more wrong than anything any US media outlet has done. NOTE: Also in my search, I found that the Austrailian media has also show pow footage and their government has begged them to stop, but they continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 I do think we are talking apples and oranges with the American versus Iraqi footage of POW's. However, isn't it a little naive in this case to say that the the US media operating in and around Iraq is not under the control of or really heavily influenced by the millitary? Doesn't the millitary tell them what they are allowed to shoot (so they don't give away any intelligence), tell them which groups they are allowed to go with, and for the most part influence the content to a much greater degree than the US media is probably used to. Now, to the issue of extent the Iraqi, Muslim media is much more controled, but during wartime and especially in war areas each of the government do use the media to send out the messages and propaganda they wish to send out. The fact that we show POW's being civilly treated is the same reason that our enemy's show American's suffering. We want to look like the good guys and they want us to look weak or at least for them to look strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Originally posted by Burgold I do think we are talking apples and oranges with the American versus Iraqi footage of POW's. However, isn't it a little naive in this case to say that the the US media operating in and around Iraq is not under the control of or really heavily influenced by the millitary? Doesn't the millitary tell them what they are allowed to shoot (so they don't give away any intelligence), tell them which groups they are allowed to go with, and for the most part influence the content to a much greater degree than the US media is probably used to. Now, to the issue of extent the Iraqi, Muslim media is much more controled, but during wartime and especially in war areas each of the government do use the media to send out the messages and propaganda they wish to send out. The fact that we show POW's being civilly treated is the same reason that our enemy's show American's suffering. We want to look like the good guys and they want us to look weak or at least for them to look strong. I don't disagree with anything you have posted, it was all well said. The "event" that I have been talking about was Fox news footage that has been brought into question. On Mar 22 they showed Iraqi pow's handcuffed and on their knees while camera's and lights were put in their faces. No, it is nothing similar to what the Iraqi's did, I have never tried to say as such, However, it was in violation of the Geneva convention article 13. The media is embeded with the miliary, so you (not you literally) can argue that Iraq's footage was state sponsored and Fox's was not, but the facts are that #1, the media is there as a guest of our military and #2, it's a moot point because there is nothing in the Geneva Convention article that says it has to be state sponsored... The question is, Will Fox news be held accountable? Not, will the US government be held accountable. Al Jazerra should be held accountable for their actions, which in my opinion were much worse. The icing on the cake was that Fox pulled the video in question and began heavily criticizing Al Jazerra... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Kind of funny. I thought I was supporting you, Codeman or at least refuting part of Art's argument. Fox news has been guilty of hypocrisy. All people who write or report news at one point or another are. This is likely a fairly innocent form of it though. It's really hard to supress all opinions as an editor choosing what gets shown, especially on the basis of editorials or when the footage has real news meritmerit. Having worked with media I have seen the struggle towards objectivity and fairness, I can say that the people I worked with worked very hard to suppress their biases and merely report, nevertheless they have failed on occasion. It sometimes is a nearly impossible standard to ask, fairness and objectivity is darned hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Originally posted by Burgold Kind of funny. I thought I was supporting you, Codeman or at least refuting part of Art's argument. Fox news has been guilty of hypocrisy. All people who write or report news at one point or another are. This is likely a fairly innocent form of it though. It's really hard to supress all opinions as an editor choosing what gets shown, especially on the basis of editorials or when the footage has real news meritmerit. Having worked with media I have seen the struggle towards objectivity and fairness, I can say that the people I worked with worked very hard to suppress their biases and merely report, nevertheless they have failed on occasion. It sometimes is a nearly impossible standard to ask, fairness and objectivity is darned hard. I'm sorry if you thought I didn't realize you were supporting me, I did, I wasn't directing any of that at you, if it came across that way, I'm totally sorry, I didn't mean it like that at all.. I was just venting, BUT NOT towards you at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 no problem. I rarely take offense in a debate. It's even harder to when the other person is more or less taking your side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Originally posted by Burgold no problem. I rarely take offense in a debate. It's even harder to when the other person is more or less taking your side. I thought you made great points... Maybe I made my first line too confusing, but I did say that I agreed with everything you had said... I was just mentioning that there was a specific violation that was brought up that I happened to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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