Carlos Rogers draft writeup from 05

[Rob Mexico]

I am hoping Los gets healthy and has a career year. He has showed some improvement.

HTTR!

[skinsman4u]

Won the best CB award for college DBs; I think its called the jim thorpe award. I like #22 but his draft hit was focus and recognition--at least that was one of the bigger hits. Focus and recognition can be corrected through coaching.

That was another hit, IMO, but I didn't see listed was that Auburn didn't play a man-to-man scheme, and so far he's proved uncomfortable in man situations. Strong points are tackling, but focus can hurt that and have on more than one occasion.

So coaching's important. We need to go in another direction not only with #22 but #24 as well. What's wrong with #24? Oh I like him but when we need it the most, he makes a lot of mental mistakes. For now we should keep them both and work interior line play in the 1st round draft. Only thing about that is Vinny has been known to favor skill positions, only, in the first round; we'll see if that changes. Vinny's in the club house and he knows what's best. So we'll see.

[Smoot Point Really]

Carlos played with a cushion his 1st two years... Less of a cushion at the beginning of last season. You can't blame his cushion entirely on the coaches. A lot of times, the other corner would play with a cushion, but not nearly as much as Carlos. Carlos also wasn't quick to adjust to what the offense was doing during the game, sometimes giving up repeated short passes (underneath the cushion). While he still left plays on the field (dropping INTs and missing tackles), he did improve. Hopefully he gets back to being healthy and starts looking like a top 10 pick instead of a 3rd round or 4th round pick.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

it still irks me to this day that in 06 he dropped like 6 interceptions. if the dude could hold on to a ball, nobody would ever talk about him getting burned here and there or missing a tackle here and there.

[Geoff_K]

I hope we stop the soft D we played last year and change to a SCORE SCORE SCORE SCORE until they cry team this year. The lead is only good once the game is over. ;- )

[CG]

Quit hating on GW. It's not like he was just randomly sticking Carlos 10 yards back because he wanted to misuse him. Buford had an OUTSTANDING write-up about the "cushion" here;

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210964

For those to lazy to click, he's just saying that the Cover 3 is a bend not break scheme, and the CBs can play deep coverages because they have help underneath from LBs or CB. Carlos just has to worry about not getting beat deep, thus the cushion.

[scruffylookin]

I think what scewed us with Rogers is the fact that the Titans and Cardinals took the other "top" corners right before us (PacMan & Rolle) so I think the Skins were probably too scared to drop back and potentially losing out on Rogers.

I think he's been a terrible pick for being the #9 pick in the draft, but I will say this in his defense. It's not his fault that the Skins screwed up and failed to resign Fred Smoot in 05 and thus putting themselves in a position to have to reach for a corner at #9 instead of selecting the best player available.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Quit hating on GW. It's not like he was just randomly sticking Carlos 10 yards back because he wanted to misuse him. Buford had an OUTSTANDING write-up about the "cushion" here;

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210964

For those to lazy to click, he's just saying that the Cover 3 is a bend not break scheme, and the CBs can play deep coverages because they have help underneath from LBs or CB. Carlos just has to worry about not getting beat deep, thus the cushion.

cover 3 is a scared defense that allows teams to chew us up, and make big plays in short times across the middle. how many times did we see teams just kill us underneath? so we take away the deep ball, guys cant throw bombs now. they just throw 8-12 yard over the middle routes all day long. see the patriots game for perfect example of how the cover 3 is completely destroyed. and williams was misusing rogers, whether we wanna admit it or not. you dont have a 6 foot 200 pound pressure/physical corner playing 8-10 yards off the receiver because he has help underneath, it defeats the whole purpose of rogers being a pressure/physical corner in the first place. you use the guys strengths. have him right at the line against their guys, throwing off their timing, and sticking to them like glue. giving a guy a 10 yard cushion is pretty stupid.

and springs got burned a lot when the cushion was in full effect. if anyone remembers the dallas game last year (or the year before that) he got slayed pretty bad. and frankly springs didnt start making an impact until late november because the team took it so easy on him to start the year.

[The Sisko]

I think what scewed us with Rogers is the fact that the Titans and Cardinals took the other "top" corners right before us (PacMan & Rolle) so I think the Skins were probably too scared to drop back and potentially losing out on Rogers.

I think he's been a terrible pick for being the #9 pick in the draft, but I will say this in his defense. It's not his fault that the Skins screwed up and failed to resign Fred Smoot in 05 and thus putting themselves in a position to have to reach for a corner at #9 instead of selecting the best player available.

The Rogers reach and the untimely death of ST clearly show the value of a BPA draft strategy. Rogers will be seen as a bust because he was taken too high. Landry was viewed as a luxury until the death of ST.

I think we might be able to make lemonade out of lemons by mobile him to safety if he's really lost a step after his return.

[Fifty Gut]

Kiper was right. Rogers is a solid starter that should have been taken much later in the 1st. I wanted Merriman. As a 4-3 end, he'd have been just as much a game changer as he has been at LB.

If we were set on taking Rogers, we should have traded down. If we weren't able to trade down, we should have just taken Merriman or Ware at that spot and looked for CB help later.

Hindsight is 20/20. Carlos would have been long gone if we tried to trade down. The other corners in his class, Rolle (bust) and Jones (bust) both had already been taken. It was the right pick. He was the Jim Thorpe award winner in college and filled a huge need of ours at the time. We lucked out getting the better of the three elite corners in that draft.

[CG]

cover 3 is a scared defense that allows teams to chew us up, and make big plays in short times across the middle. how many times did we see teams just kill us underneath? so we take away the deep ball, guys cant throw bombs now. they just throw 8-12 yard over the middle routes all day long. see the patriots game for perfect example of how the cover 3 is completely destroyed. and williams was misusing rogers, whether we wanna admit it or not. you dont have a 6 foot 200 pound pressure/physical corner playing 8-10 yards off the receiver because he has help underneath, it defeats the whole purpose of rogers being a pressure/physical corner in the first place. you use the guys strengths. have him right at the line against their guys, throwing off their timing, and sticking to them like glue. giving a guy a 10 yard cushion is pretty stupid.

and springs got burned a lot when the cushion was in full effect. if anyone remembers the dallas game last year (or the year before that) he got slayed pretty bad. and frankly springs didnt start making an impact until late november because the team took it so easy on him to start the year.

Per NFL.com,

The Skins were 8th in yards allowed per game, 10th in points allowed per game.

I'd say that overall GW's defensive scheme was pretty effective. What more do you want?

Allowing Carlos to have a cushion may not have played into HIS strengths, but it did allow us to use Landry optimally and also to take away the big play. The team succeeded in that formation.

There's give and take here, you can't have everything at one time. The defense is a team, not 11 individuals doing whatever they feel like.

[Jesus, Mary & Joe Gibbs]

If we retain Shawn Springs to go along with a healthy Rogers and Smoot I think we'll have a good secondary... We already have Landry as FS and Doughty showed some good progress... We could address CB/S in the draft as well...

[Jesus, Mary & Joe Gibbs]

Hindsight is 20/20. Carlos would have been long gone if we tried to trade down. The other corners in his class, Rolle (bust) and Jones (bust) both had already been taken. It was the right pick. He was the Jim Thorpe award winner in college and filled a huge need of ours at the time. We lucked out getting the better of the three elite corners in that draft.

I'm sorry... Did you just call Antrell Rolle a bust? I'd MUCH rather have him than Carlos Rogers... Are you serious? The guy had 5 INT's and 3 TD's returned off those INT's last year... He's going to be a beast...

[MoeRedskins]

any news of Rogers and that injury of his, I heard he might not be health for the season opener.

[turbodiesel#44]

any news of Rogers and that injury of his, I heard he might not be health for the season opener.

AFAIK, he won't be back until sometime in Oct. at the earliest. And it is unlikely we will see him at 100% at all this year with that type of injury.

[Warhead36]

Rogers was having a pretty good year last year before that injury.

His biggest weakness is still his stone hands.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Per NFL.com,

The Skins were 8th in yards allowed per game, 10th in points allowed per game.

I'd say that overall GW's defensive scheme was pretty effective. What more do you want?

Allowing Carlos to have a cushion may not have played into HIS strengths, but it did allow us to use Landry optimally and also to take away the big play. The team succeeded in that formation.

There's give and take here, you can't have everything at one time. The defense is a team, not 11 individuals doing whatever they feel like.

im aware of that, but break that down into their respective units:

rush defense: 4th in NFL, 91.3 YPG

pass defense: 16th in NFL, 214 YPG

so GW did a great job at stopping the run with our Dline/LB. the emergence of monty as a playmaker, and griffin staying healthy, coupled with fletcher/washington/mcintosh was a huge improvement over the 2006 defense. but our pass defense was still shaky. we lacked a legit pass rush, and the cushion our corners allowed was pretty unacceptable at times, and allowed teams to come back against us late in games (bills, eagles, cardinals, eagles 2nd time around). we didnt run a pressure defense and it really hurt us at times, especially in tight games.

now that williams is gone, i wouldnt be surprised to see a more traditional defensive gameplan with more press coverage and a real pass russ.

[turbodiesel#44]

Rogers was having a pretty good year last year before that injury.

His biggest weakness is still his stone hands.

You are correct sir. And considering our nearly non-existant pass rush, I might even say very good rather than pretty good. Save for the stone hands thing. That is baffling.

[Fifty Gut]

I'm sorry... Did you just call Antrell Rolle a bust? I'd MUCH rather have him than Carlos Rogers... Are you serious? The guy had 5 INT's and 3 TD's returned off those INT's last year... He's going to be a beast...

Rolle hasn't made it past nickel back in Arizona

nickel back, for a top 10 pick?

[TheLongshot]

Kiper was right. Rogers is a solid starter that should have been taken much later in the 1st. I wanted Merriman. As a 4-3 end, he'd have been just as much a game changer as he has been at LB.

Yeah, a guy who had never played 4-3 end would have been a sure-fire hit there. :doh:

People keep making that assumption about him, but have nothing to back it up. While he certainly has the size to play the position, I don't think it would be a sure thing to say that he'd be just as effective as he is at OLB, where he can move around and make people think if he was coming or not.

Jason

[Truant]

Rolle hasn't made it past nickel back in Arizona

nickel back, for a top 10 pick?

In all fairness, AZ is still a place where draft picks go to die.

Rolle found himself in the doghouse early and became a nickel corner. But when Adrian Wilson went down they moved Rolle to safety. I don't like the Cards but he was pretty darn good from that point on.

He's a playmaker and he's on the field. I'd take him over Rogers, but I guess it's like that song, dance with who you came with.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

merriman doesnt fit here and never would have fit here. end of story/debate.

[mcarey032]

I thought that the LOS issue was more a steve jackson issue? I thought that he and the safety coach were the ones at odds and weren't communicating and they were telling the CBs to back off. What a mistake that was in 06. I just remember dreading every 3rd down because it seemed like every team was going to convert it.