willyt Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 i am amazed that people think gibbs 2 was a failure.. there is no way in hell you can tell me that we are not leaps and bounds ahead of where we were when spurrier got booted. kind of the same way the cowboys were leaps and bounds better then they were pre-bill parcells. I think you hit it right on the head here. We are in much better shape now than we were before Joe came back. Not only do we have better personnel but we have good quality people here and teh whole attitude of the organization seems to be in a far better place..I think we look back on Gibbs 2 in a few years and say thanks...again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderMustGo Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Wow. That's revisionist history through rose colored glasses. He started cleaning house, letting the players go who did not want to be there. Like Brandon Lloyd who stayed around? Or like losing Pierce and Smoot and Arrington? Or like losing Ryan Clark and Dockery? The ones who were there only for a paycheck...Building it with players who actually cared about their fellow teammates, about the orgranization; A family who played together. Only for a paycheck? Like ARE, Archuleta, Lloyd, and Springs? Like TJ Duckett? I heard of no players calling out any teammates or complaining. You mean like Portis's ravings on the radio? Or the reports of how people in the lockerroom and coaches weren't even speaking together two years ago? Or the ESPN article about how fractured our locker room was two years ago? They became a team of blue-colar, hard working, dedicated players who in two years out of the four that Joe Gibbs was back, went to the playoffs. I think you and I have different definitions of Blue Collar. Because Blue Collar doesn't apply to the half of our team who are over-paid prima donnas who strut during timeouts to the hiphop music being pumped into the stadium. One of those years, the team despite the heart-breaking loss of a great teammate, went to the playoffs in a storied season. Storied? Other than the fact one of our players died, what was storied about it? We snuck into the playoffs and went one and done. What kind of story is that? Pretty ridiculous mythologising of the recent past. _____________ There was a real need for change and the people calling for Joe Gibbs head all year were correct to do so. To be here... not even 6 months later trying to sell this idea that it was a mythical time of greatness last season is a bit hard to swallow. And just so you know... the cancer is still there. It's name is Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunClintonRun26 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Wow. That's revisionist history through rose colored glasses.Like Brandon Lloyd who stayed around? Or like losing Pierce and Smoot and Arrington? Or like losing Ryan Clark and Dockery? Only for a paycheck? Like ARE, Archuleta, Lloyd, and Springs? Like TJ Duckett? You mean like Portis's ravings on the radio? Or the reports of how people in the lockerroom and coaches weren't even speaking together two years ago? Or the ESPN article about how fractured our locker room was two years ago? I think you and I have different definitions of Blue Collar. Because Blue Collar doesn't apply to the half of our team who are over-paid prima donnas who strut during timeouts to the hiphop music being pumped into the stadium. Storied? Other than the fact one of our players died, what was storied about it? We snuck into the playoffs and went one and done. What kind of story is that? Pretty ridiculous mythologising of the recent past. _____________ There was a real need for change and the people calling for Joe Gibbs head all year were correct to do so. To be here... not even 6 months later trying to sell this idea that it was a mythical time of greatness last season is a bit hard to swallow. And just so you know... the cancer is still there. It's name is Snyder. :applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause: :notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy Great post man. EVERY single one of your points is on the mark. Too bad they will be ignored by the Gibbs' apologists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Man I am glad to see someone else who feels this way . . . People forget the fact that we lost at least 18 games in which we lead in the 4th quarter . . . that is incredible. People forget the numerous brain freezes . . . the predictable play calling . . . the mind-boggling decisions . . . I am sure the older "fans" will bash me for this one . . . saying that "this guy is too young, and doesn't appreciate what Gibbs has meant to the franchise." I can assure you that I do in fact appreciate what he has done in the past and I can also assure you that while my age is young, I am very, very knowledgable of the skins and their history. No one can doubt that Gibbs completely tarnished his reputation in coming back . . . And the worst part about it was that he got a free pass in everything. No matter how many screw-ups he had, fans would praise him, and Snyder would let him continue to mess up the team. The past buys you nothing (the irony is this was one of the first things Gibbs acknowledged in coming back . . . maybe some fans and Gibbs himself should have paid more attention). Gibbs was not the same Gibbs as old . . . and to even hint at the idea that he was the same or even better this go around is laughable and naive. I can say this about Coach Gibbs - there was absolutely no other coach I would want to have at the helm during the Sean Taylor tragedy (r.i.p) than Gibbs . . . his x's and o's were way off the last 4 years, but his high character helped the team tremendously. Having said that though, a 31-36 record with only one playoff win, with the amount of talent we have had over the past 4 years, is inexcusable. Before Gibbs 2.0 (while you were still sitting at the kids table ) we didn't have the opportunity to have that many 4th quarter leads. Yeah he had his brain freezes, predictable offenses and before that we had preseason creativity lots of razzle dazzle overseas followed by regular season beatdown. Yeah right his rep is not completely tarnished. Thats like saying Michael Jordan's return with the Bullets err Wizards completelytarnished his reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsheimSkins Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Silly good thread my man. :gaintsuck :eaglesuck :dallasuck :jetssuck: :ravensuck :texansuck :raidersuc :jagsuck: :coltsuck: :bearsuck: :billsuck: :brownsuck :chiefsuck :lionsuck: :packsuck: :saintsuck :vikesuck: :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I agree..while it may not have been his best stint/tenure as a head football coach(I'm sure he realized that too) But he brought some stability, pride, honor to a floundering mediocre ball club that had been that way for a decade. So he leaves a positive stamp and legacy behind yet again, even if not having the most W/L or post season success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogskin1 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Everything that Gibbs did to benefit the team, he could have done as GM or President. As a coach, I think he held this team back a bit. I agree we are in a better place now, but I think we could have been better on the field for the talent that we collected. Im ready for the Zorn era, win, lose or draw. I appreciate where you are coming from, but don't really agree. The hands-on that ONLY the HC has is what is largely responsible for the "attitude adjustment" that the team has undergone. You just can't do that from the president's office, or even as GM. But I REALLY appreciate that you turned your feelings about JG's few problems as HC into a positive post, though. The few guys on here ripping him and the team really get under my skin as a fan, partaking in a FAN site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 This OP has it down in my opinion. This was a great read and just got me geeked for football again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Winning games with an injury ravaged team isn't sneaking into the playoffs, youngin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunClintonRun26 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Before Gibbs 2.0 (while you were still sitting at the kids table ) we didn't have the opportunity to have that many 4th quarter leads.Yeah he had his brain freezes, predictable offenses and before that we had preseason creativity lots of razzle dazzle overseas followed by regular season beatdown. Yeah right his rep is not completely tarnished. Thats like saying Michael Jordan's return with the Bullets err Wizards completelytarnished his reputation. This post is about what he did over the past 4 years . . . Not what he did in the past. I know why he has his bust in Canton - his legendary half-time adjustments, his innovation, etc. The list can go on and on. He was the offensive genius of his time. Having said that, what did he do over the past 4 years to further enhance his legacy . . . or even demonstrate anything from his previous tenure for that matter? And again, don't assume that my age prevents me from knowing "Gibbs 1.0" or any other coaches between that time and now. A loss is a loss, no matter how you spin it . . . doesn't matter if it was close in the 4th or not . . . . losses are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I've got a question.... Did Joe use all 52 cards in the deck to build this house before he ran back to his NASCAR teams like the LOSER that he was the second time around.... or did he leave some of the cards still in the deck when he left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Adama Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 That is a little overboard imho. Are you forgetting the worst clock management and 2 minute drill in the history of the NFL? What about when after we got a safety against us....and Joe sent out the field goal kicker instead of the punter onto the field? Are you a fan of double timeouts? How about not even being on the same page with G Williams for the 10 man salute? I would say Gibbs was out in left field the last two seasons. Kind of like a senile old relative at a family get together. No one really talks to him.....you just kind of smile at him and feel bad for him. Bring on Zorn.....it can't possibly be any worse. Hey McD5. I never said he does not make mistakes. We are all human. Like someone believing Ladell Betts is better than Clinton Portis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinker Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Gibbs got it wrong again and again in his second tenure. He was tentative and constantly second quessed himself. Gibbs started screwing up from the first week he was here and really never stopped screwing up. He left the team with a still unproven QB in his zillionth offense in his short career now to learn a completely new offense; a team that is pretty old and and not overwhelmed with talent (compare the pukes or SD); there's an offensive line that after four years they have come up with ONE decent young prospect and with all 5 projected starters and the two most valuable backups all over 30; there is no developmental qb on the roster (Hollenbach - give me a break); on defense the dline Griffin - old, Daniels older; lb's Washington old and hurt two years in a row, London old, Rocky hurt with degenerative knee condition; backfield Springs old, Carlos seriously injured; ST: punt returner ARE a bust, Rock decent KR just solid not really any kind of game breaker; Punter very average; wr's who are proven - small and very injury prone plus castaways. Call it what you want - that's not a roster that is one draft away from contending for the Superbowl. Then there's the squandering of draft picks: Lloyd, TJ Duckett, Brunell, the extra 2nd rounder thrown in with Bailey to get Portis (total I think here alone 1 #2, 3 #3's and 2 #4's), trading up to get Rocky who had bad knees coming in to the NFL. The stupid contract decisions - Brunell, Lloyd, AA, ARE (overpaid), allowing Pierce, Smoot, Ryan Clark to walk. Yeah it just goes on before you even get to the horrible game clock management with squandered timeouts almost every game, losing leads after halftime, and bad play calling, the hiring of Saunders after reaching the playoffs and setting the offense so far back it never really recovered. Who's the young lb/de the Redskins developed that had the most sacks in the NFL last year? Oh that's Chris Clemons who had 8 sacks for the pathetic Raiders and we'll get to see for the next 5 years as an iggles. We cut him two years ago. Sorry sentamentalists - Gibbs was a fine man maybe even a great man. But the game had passed him by. He never was a good evaluator of talent and his second tenure confirmed that. The signature of his first tenure - halftime adjustments. The signature of the second tenure - more leads lost in the second half than any team in the NFL. His hand chosen successor - kicked to the curb. His hand chosen offensive coordinator - kicked to the curb. That's not really a record to be that proud of. Sorry - it was time for Coach Gibbs to pass the torch. He truly is a fine man. God Bless him and keep him safe in NASCAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Hey McD5. I never said he does not make mistakes. We are all human. Like someone believing Ladell Betts is better than Clinton Portis Huge difference between making mistakes....which we all do....and simply collecting paychecks. Not knowing the nfl rulebook about a double timeout while you are being paid $5 million a year to be the head coach=a half-assed effort to collect a paycheck. Not understanding that you punt after a safety=a half-assed effort to collect a paycheck. Not even meeting with your D coordinator that you signed to know about the Sean Taylor 10 man salute=an embarrassing, quarter-assed effort to collect a paycheck. Not preparing your team for the noise in Seattle for a playoff game=another embarrassing quarter-assed effort to collect a paycheck. You think Belicheat or any other above average coach would have been surprised and unprepared for the noise in Seattle? He gave the offense to Saunders.....allowed players to work out on their own....shifted player meetings to everyone but himself.....and yet still couldn't even manage a two-minute offense.....proper usage of timeouts......and couldn't even find the time to learn the nfl rules about double timeouts. Embarrassing and collecting paychecks. That is the only way to describe it. He was the best ever the first time around. He gave a pathetic effort his second time around, and it was painful to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nehneh Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Huge difference between making mistakes....which we all do....and simply collecting paychecks. Not knowing the nfl rulebook about a double timeout while you are being paid $5 million a year to be the head coach=a half-assed effort to collect a paycheck. Not understanding that you punt after a safety=a half-assed effort to collect a paycheck. Not even meeting with your D coordinator that you signed to know about the Sean Taylor 10 man salute=an embarrassing, quarter-assed effort to collect a paycheck. Not preparing your team for the noise in Seattle for a playoff game=another embarrassing quarter-assed effort to collect a paycheck. You think Belicheat or any other above average coach would have been surprised and unprepared for the noise in Seattle? He gave the offense to Saunders.....allowed players to work out on their own....shifted player meetings to everyone but himself.....and yet still couldn't even manage a two-minute offense.....proper usage of timeouts......and couldn't even find the time to learn the nfl rules about double timeouts. Embarrassing and collecting paychecks. That is the only way to describe it. He was the best ever the first time around. He gave a pathetic effort his second time around, and it was painful to watch. Unless you were there at the pre-game meetings or at the teams practices then you really have no place to say they weren't prepared for the noise in Seattle. Regardless of what may have been said during post-game interviews. If anything, Gibbs was being a good sport saying that the fans were really noisy and into the game up in Seattle. Granted the two timeouts back to back was a mistake, and while he took all the blame for it, I don't put that loss on him, I put it on the rest of the game. Maybe if we were able to score a few more points, we would'nt have been in that situation. But who knows, maybe we would be better off if we kept Spurrier, and left Ramsey under center. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 That is a little overboard imho. Are you forgetting the worst clock management and 2 minute drill in the history of the NFL? PARTLY CAMBELL What about when after we got a safety against us....and Joe sent out the field goal kicker instead of the punter onto the field? Are you a fan of double timeouts? How about not even being on the same page with G Williams for the 10 man salute? I would say Gibbs was out in left field the last two seasons. Kind of like a senile old relative at a family get together. No one really talks to him.....you just kind of smile at him and feel bad for him. Bring on Zorn.....it can't possibly be any worse. That is asinine. The double timeouts did not matter, the guy drilled the 51 yarder after the first timeout and would have done it again. We made the playoffs... and we didn't get it done. Did it ever occur to you that game against the Bills was the first game after STs death? We made the playoffs 2 out of 3 years in the most successful three year period in the years since Gibbs first retired. Our most successful seasons in the past 25 years have all involved Gibbs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Not knowing the nfl rulebook about a double timeout while you are being paid $5 million a year to be the head coach=a half-assed effort to collect a paycheck. Not understanding that you punt after a safety=a half-assed effort to collect a paycheck. He was the best ever the first time around. He gave a pathetic effort his second time around, and it was painful to watch. He was trying ot ice the kicker and it didn;t matter and wouldn't have mattered, the guy drilled a 51 yarder after his first timeout and would have done it again. You don't have to punt oafter a safety, you have a free play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Unless you were there at the pre-game meetings or at the teams practices then you really have no place to say they weren't prepared for the noise in Seattle. Regardless of what may have been said during post-game interviews. If anything, Gibbs was being a good sport saying that the fans were really noisy and into the game up in Seattle. Granted the two timeouts back to back was a mistake, and while he took all the blame for it, I don't put that loss on him, I put it on the rest of the game. Maybe if we were able to score a few more points, we would'nt have been in that situation. But who knows, maybe we would be better off if we kept Spurrier, and left Ramsey under center. :doh: As you are already aware, Gibbs himself said he was surprised at just how loud it was in Seattle, and he said that was a big factor in the loss. He also admitted to not knowing the double timeout rule......and admitted that he had no idea about the 10 man salute for Taylor, although the team and and coaches were together almost that entire week on the flight to Miami and back. So the supposed "Head Coach" wasn't even speaking with his DC last season? Call it what you want. $5 million for that kind of crap is totally unacceptable. Paying him even $100k for that kind of slack, half asleep effort would have been too much. Crowd noise? Practice hand signals, timed snaps and routes, even practice with hard rock music blaring out over the stadium speakers all week. Double timeouts? Read a damn rulebook....or higher someone else to. Every high school coach in America knows you can't do that. Totally unacceptable. Raise your expectations people. When you make someone the highest paid coach in history......at least expect the guy is actually going to put forth some effort. I believe he stepped down out of total embarrassment, accepting that his old style wouldn't work in today's game, admitting that he simply didn't have the energy necessary to put into the game anymore, and a guilty conscience for being paid so much while being so lackadaisical. That would have NEVER happened in his first tenure. And the team is 10x better of because of it. :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 He was trying ot ice the kicker and it didn;t matter and wouldn't have mattered, the guy drilled a 51 yarder after his first timeout and would have done it again.You don't have to punt oafter a safety, you have a free play. Don't have to punt after a safety? Joe, is that you? Maybe we should have tried a drop-kick.....or just kicked it off the grass. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mexico Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 You guys are crazy if you think Joe Gibbs didn't improve this team by A LOT! HAIL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 You guys are crazy if you think Joe Gibbs didn't improve this team by A LOT!HAIL! Exactly HOW MANY Super Bowl appearances and victories did we have under the Gibbs II regime, RRoR? I must have missed them all, somehow, because I can't remember a single one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mexico Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Exactly HOW MANY Super Bowl appearances and victories did we have under the Gibbs II regime, RRoR? I must have missed them all, somehow, because I can't remember a single one. Is that a serious question? You are telling me that you don't think that Gibbs improved this team? You heard Portis....Gibbs turned them into men. And when you are a man you can work as a team better. He brought our team together and brought in quite a few good players. You think we can't improve unless we win a Superbowl? The Pats can't improve unless they win a Superbowl. We made major improovements. HAIL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 That is a little overboard imho. Are you forgetting the worst clock management and 2 minute drill in the history of the NFL? What about when after we got a safety against us....and Joe sent out the field goal kicker instead of the punter onto the field? Are you a fan of double timeouts? How about not even being on the same page with G Williams for the 10 man salute? I would say Gibbs was out in left field the last two seasons. Kind of like a senile old relative at a family get together. No one really talks to him.....you just kind of smile at him and feel bad for him. Bring on Zorn.....it can't possibly be any worse. Nice postive post... :doh: Now go pull some wings of flies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mexico Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I guess the Redskins going to the playoffs twice in three years isn't an improovment from going 0 years since like 2001. HAIL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Nice postive post... :doh: Now go pull some wings of flies. So you are a fan of those things? Those are the signs of a great coach in your fantasy world? Didn't think so...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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