flock53 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 For a guy thats played one year in the league and had 55 tackles, thats pretty good.Good enough not to blow a draft pick on a rookie SS when there are more pressing needs. PS. Caps are not cruise control for cool. Would it be "blowing" a draft pick cause you say there are more pressing needs? Losing ST and the play making makes that position a "need" once again. Reed ISNT a playmaker, Josh Barrett could be. Alot of people are screamin DE DE still, what did the top picks do last year? Adams didnt light it up, Jamal Anderson didnt light it up, Carriker didnt either, but he played inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Would it be "blowing" a draft pick cause you say there are more pressing needs? Losing ST and the play making makes that position a "need" once again. Reed ISNT a playmaker, Josh Barrett could be. Alot of people are screamin DE DE still, what did the top picks do last year? Adams didnt light it up, Jamal Anderson didnt light it up, Carriker didnt either, but he played inside. First off Landry would be playing FS not Reed. He played SS most of the year. Next youre never getting Taylor back, let it go. Even if the DE's last year didn't "light it up" you still need to replace Daniels. 6 sacks in 2 years? A rookie can do better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laythalumber2130 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Would it be "blowing" a draft pick cause you say there are more pressing needs? Losing ST and the play making makes that position a "need" once again. Reed ISNT a playmaker, Josh Barrett could be. Alot of people are screamin DE DE still, what did the top picks do last year? Adams didnt light it up, Jamal Anderson didnt light it up, Carriker didnt either, but he played inside. Great point. DE's take an awful lot of time to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Great point. DE's take an awful lot of time to develop. So tell me, what position doesn't take time to develop? Same argument about drafting WR and D-lineman year in and year out. All its got us is a roster full of over priced and aged vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stat2883 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Cromartie impressed me most when most cbs get burned, at the senior bowl. Shut down CBs are hard to find, and if springs is gone this year or next we will need to replace him.This is almost reason enough to go with a CB in the first round. Given how deep the draft is on the D-line and somewhat on the O-line, and the fact that there isn't one clear-cut gotta-have WR, I could almost see us doing this. If not Cromartie, maybe some other CB.I really don't know which position I'd want to hit first....I probably won't know either until we actually get on the clock and I see who's still on the board. my :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stat2883 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 So tell me, what position doesn't take time to develop? running back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laythalumber2130 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 So tell me, what position doesn't take time to develop? Same argument about drafting WR and D-lineman year in and year out. All its got us is a roster full of over priced and aged vets. All positions take time to develop, but...... Great point. DE's take an awful lot of time to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I hope we Kentwan Ballmer. He was impressive. I think Snyderatto wants to make a splash and drafts Sweed. He looks like a playmaker in the Plax mold. Cant wait to see what happens. I don't see why drafting Sweed would be making a "splash". Just because he is a WR? If he is the BPA out of our needs and they like him and think he is the best player to get there why not draft him? I agree with you though. I think he is a player in the Plax mold, just tougher and not afraid of contact like Plexiglass is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squatch66 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I know, and your right. But PP is not expected back and Vernon Fox is a backup at best. If Barrett is there in the 4th, then I say snatch him up. he will sure look good in a denver uniform when he gets picked with the skins fourth round pick. as far as who i liked chris long looks like a star in the making in the nfl. i seriously would trade up for him in a heartbeat. i thought derrick harvey looked pretty good from what i saw on nfl.com. as far as the tackles i thought that trevor laws and sedrick ellis look awesome. i would love to see those guys in the maroon and black:D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fpickering Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Unfortunately in the Last 10 years, the #21 pick has produced just 1 superstar.2007: Reggie Nelson Safety 2006: Laurence Maroney (Has a chance to become something special) 2005: Matt Jones WR. 2004: Vince Wilfork DT 2003: Jeff Faine Center 2002: Daniel Graham TE 2001: Nate Clements Corner Back 2000: Sylvester Morris WR 1999: L.J Shelton Tackle 1998: Randy Moss There are a lot of great players on this list. I would be happy to have Maroney, Wilfork, Graham, Clements or Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 All positions take time to develop, but...... Lets just assume (wrongly) that you are correct. Lets have a look at the actual sack production of DE's taken in the first round within their first 16 games (not starts mind you) since 2004. Gaines Adams 6 sacks Jamaal Anderson 0 sacks Jarvis Moss (only played 6 NFL games so far) Mario Williams 4.5 sacks Tamba Hali 8 sacks Mathias Kiwanuka 4 sacks Erasmus James 4 sacks Marcus Spears 1.5 sacks Luis Castillo 3.5 sacks Will Smith 7.5 sacks Kenechi Udeze 5 sacks Thats an average of 4.4 sacks as rookies. That's still better sack production than our starting DE Daniels has had in the last 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 First off Landry would be playing FS not Reed. He played SS most of the year.Next youre never getting Taylor back, let it go. Even if the DE's last year didn't "light it up" you still need to replace Daniels. 6 sacks in 2 years? A rookie can do better than that. Yes, currently LL would be the FS, only by default cause hes the best option. Why is drafting another safety not "letting go" of Seans' death? Its upgrading a position that drastically went down, and needs to be upgraded again. Reed is not the long or short term answer! LET IT GO. I agree Daniels need to be replaced, Im hoping we sign Justin Smith as the only FRA signed this year OR trade for Peppers, who Carolina is shopping, hes still young enough to give up #21 IMO, maybe we can squeeze a 4th (or better) out of them since we dont have ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Great point. DE's take an awful lot of time to develop. NOT Peppers!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Yes, currently LL would be the FS, only by default cause hes the best option. Why is drafting another safety not "letting go" of Seans' death? Its upgrading a position that drastically went down, and needs to be upgraded again. Reed is not the long or short term answer! LET IT GO. I agree Daniels need to be replaced, Im hoping we sign Justin Smith as the only FRA signed this year OR trade for Peppers, who Carolina is shopping, hes still young enough to give up #21 IMO, maybe we can squeeze a 4th (or better) out of them since we dont have ours. Upgrading SS is not a big issue this year due to the fact that D-line and O-line starters and depth take precedence over SS or any other secondary spot. This fact has been beaten to death but again, you can have as many 1st round picks in the secondary and a weak D-line and your defense is going to suck. Denver is a case in point for this. With Bailey and Bly, they are the poster boys for the fact that you cannot do this. If we had a replacement for Daniels and Griffin in the wings, then I couldn't care who we drafted. We don't so we need to draft a DE and a DT that can rush the passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Made Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Lets just assume (wrongly) that you are correct. Lets have a look at the actual sack production of DE's taken in the first round within their first 16 games (not starts mind you) since 2004.Gaines Adams 6 sacks Jamaal Anderson 0 sacks Jarvis Moss (only played 6 NFL games so far) Mario Williams 4.5 sacks Tamba Hali 8 sacks Mathias Kiwanuka 4 sacks Erasmus James 4 sacks Marcus Spears 1.5 sacks Luis Castillo 3.5 sacks Will Smith 7.5 sacks Kenechi Udeze 5 sacks Thats an average of 4.4 sacks as rookies. That's still better sack production than our starting DE Daniels has had in the last 2 years. And take away Luis Castillo and Marcus Spears (the 3-4 DEs) you get a higher number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 And take away Luis Castillo and Marcus Spears (the 3-4 DEs) you get a higher number. I know, Im trying to prove a point though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaps Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I wouldnt mind using our 7th rounder on QB Bernie Morris out of Marshall. We could develop him into a backup to JC. Plus he had a heck of a combine and played his way into an invite in the all-star bowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squatch66 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 i would love it if we got either ellis or laws and an end in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaezh12 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Upgrading SS is not a big issue this year due to the fact that D-line and O-line starters and depth take precedence over SS or any other secondary spot. Thats why ive been sayin we take silva, who's projected to go in the 5th round. I figure by then we should have been able to upgrade everything we need that is more pressing, and not to mention i think he could be a pretty good saftey in the nfl. the way i see it, we pick big wr/de/cb (in any order you want) then go for silva. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Upgrading SS is not a big issue this year due to the fact that D-line and O-line starters and depth take precedence over SS or any other secondary spot.This fact has been beaten to death but again, you can have as many 1st round picks in the secondary and a weak D-line and your defense is going to suck. Denver is a case in point for this. With Bailey and Bly, they are the poster boys for the fact that you cannot do this. If we had a replacement for Daniels and Griffin in the wings, then I couldn't care who we drafted. We don't so we need to draft a DE and a DT that can rush the passer. Who cares about Denver, I think our DEF was ranked pretty high and it didnt totally suck, imagine if we could acctually catch an int!!! Even the great S.Taylor dropped his share, he couldve had appox. 5 against GBay alone, I lost track of dropped ints early. Besides I explained my thought on upgrading DE pos. this year and then that would validate taking a secondary position in the draft, but obviously you didnt read that OR it wasnt good enough for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Who cares about Denver, I think our DEF was ranked pretty high and it didnt totally suck, imagine if we could acctually catch an int!!! Even the great S.Taylor dropped his share, he couldve had appox. 5 against GBay alone, I lost track of dropped ints early. Besides I explained my thought on upgrading DE pos. this year and then that would validate taking a secondary position in the draft, but obviously you didnt read that OR it wasnt good enough for you. Your thoughts on the DE position I did read. I still say that you're mistaken. No way that we can afford either one of those guys and Vinny already said that we were going to NOT be active players in the FA market. Time to start thinking draft and developing our own talent. Our defense was 8th overall. However it was tied 16th in sacks, and tied 23rd in INT's. Things that need to be improved and can be improved by getting a DE to replace Daniels. You bring up the drops of INT's. That can all be cured by more pressure being applied to the QB. As for Denver, its an example. Nothing more, not sure how you can get offended by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squatch66 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 our defense was 8th. just imagine what it could be if we had a better pass rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flock53 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Your thoughts on the DE position I did read. I still say that you're mistaken. No way that we can afford either one of those guys and Vinny already said that we were going to NOT be active players in the FA market. Time to start thinking draft and developing our own talent.Our defense was 8th overall. However it was tied 16th in sacks, and tied 23rd in INT's. Things that need to be improved and can be improved by getting a DE to replace Daniels. You bring up the drops of INT's. That can all be cured by more pressure being applied to the QB. As for Denver, its an example. Nothing more, not sure how you can get offended by that. DROPS cant be cured by pressure, they can be "caused" by pressure, IF YOU CATCH THEM. As far as what Vinny says ???? this is poker man, if anything it will be just the opposite. You might be able to afford a Smith, and if you trade for Peppers, you can instantly resign/restructure his contract by giving him a descent bonus, give him a cheesy base salary but throw in "reachable/bogus type" incentives that he can easily reach, which I believe snowball into the following year of the contract. I totally understand the whole pressure causes TOvers and kills drives and makes our D better. If we have multiple holes then maybe the logical thing is to trade down and get more picks, its not like #21 is a slam dunk spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Yes, currently LL would be the FS, only by default cause hes the best option. Why is drafting another safety not "letting go" of Seans' death? Its upgrading a position that drastically went down, and needs to be upgraded again. Reed is not the long or short term answer! LET IT GO. I agree Daniels need to be replaced, Im hoping we sign Justin Smith as the only FRA signed this year OR trade for Peppers, who Carolina is shopping, hes still young enough to give up #21 IMO, maybe we can squeeze a 4th (or better) out of them since we dont have ours. Landry would be the FS because he is an excellent FS and that is his natural position. If memory serves once he got some reps back there last year at the centerfield position he looked quite good. Did the position go down? Yes. But what do you expect seeing as how Sean Taylor was pretty much a once in a lifetime type of talent back there. Landry isn't Taylor, but IMO he has the potential to be a star in the NFL once he gets more experience and starts playing a bit smarter. Oh and Justin Smith is 1) not worth the money he'll get and 2) probably isn't going to the Skins. Where did you read that Carolina is seriously shopping Peppers? Was it from any kind of reputable source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 DROPS cant be cured by pressure, they can be "caused" by pressure, IF YOU CATCH THEM. Perhaps if the QB was actually pressured, the pass may have been more easily intercepted? Nah too far fetched. :laugh: As far as what Vinny says ???? this is poker man, if anything it will be just the opposite. You might be able to afford a Smith, and if you trade for Peppers, you can instantly resign/restructure his contract by giving him a descent bonus, give him a cheesy base salary but throw in "reachable/bogus type" incentives that he can easily reach, which I believe snowball into the following year of the contract. Even with Moss restructuring, we still won't be even 10 million under the cap. That will not get you the CB and the split end WR that we are supposedly targeting in FA AND a high priced DE like Smith (going to the 49ers by the way) or Peppers (not leaving Carolina). I totally understand the whole pressure causes TOvers and kills drives and makes our D better. If we have multiple holes then maybe the logical thing is to trade down and get more picks, its not like #21 is a slam dunk spot. What position in the draft is a "slam dunk"? As I posted before, even counting DE's that came out of the draft and became either 3-4 DE or 3-4 OLB, the average sack total of a rookie DE since 2004 is over 4 sacks. Much better than Daniels has produced since 2005. As for sliding down, there is a cost/benefit ratio to sliding down. We are at the brink of where the good DE's will possibly fall and perhaps sliding to the end of the 1st isn't a bad idea but with the team only missing one draft choice this year it isn't a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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