luckydevil Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 This thread shoud be a sticky. If this is what it takes to keep Smoot and get a good wr, then so be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Actually I wouldnt mind negotiating with the Jets and giving up smoot instead of our first round pick in exchange for Coles. even if that doesnt work I would still be willing to trade Smoot to another team for a number one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVskinsfan Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Originally posted by TheChosenOne I'd like to point out that while this seems like yet another huge contract, it's about inline with what we would have paid if we had moved up to the #2 or #3 spot in the draft. This team will definitely be blown up in about 3 years, but damn if we arent getting ready to make a run. Patrick is going to put up silllllly #s this year. I really hope so! The talent is coming! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVskinsfan Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Originally posted by Storm Actually I wouldnt mind negotiating with the Jets and giving up smoot instead of our first round pick in exchange for Coles. even if that doesnt work I would still be willing to trade Smoot to another team for a number one. I like that idea! Still would like to have something to watch when the Draft comes on 4/26 Raiders are looking to move up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I think the JETS match it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor The Invincible Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 You know back in 2000 we had a good team. Just no Kicker. Now we have a kicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I like that idea! Still would like to have something to watch when the Draft comes on 4/26 I know what you mean, there goes the one thing I was looking forward to in April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Storm, You wrote, "If the Jets fail to match our offers, we will be giving away our 1,4,5,6 round picks." My response to that would be, "So what. We'll have Coles, Morton and Bowen, who project out to three starters, all young, and who are certainly more valuable than the 1, 4, 5 and 6 picks anyway." This is a surprising move. I think Coles is far more ready as a player than either Johnson or Rogers. He's clearly ready to contribute now. Next year when you may see what Ramsey is really capable of, he won't still be growing as a receiver and a player as Johnson or Rogers likely would. Obviously I'd rather get a defensive lineman with that first pick, but, if given a choice between an unknown draft pick of any sort or a proven 80-catch receiver, I'm taking the receiver we know about rather than hoping we draft the right guy. There is also very little worry associated with the price of these types of moves. You don't hurt yourself signing 25-year-old players to these types of deals if they can produce. You hurt yourself signing 30-year-old players to this type of deal. From this free agent class the presumption is that Coles and Thomas will be around beyond three years. If so, the price of these deals is not that large a burden. If not, it'll be a problem, but that's the same problem if Arrington didn't work out or Samuels didn't work out or Bailey didn't work out, etc. If these deals all go through you have 19 of 22 starters under contract for next year and you are below the cap. Bruce Smith comes off the books and saves some $6.5 million in presently projected cap dollars. Wilkinson would be player 20, who now has to restructure to hang around another year or two. He won't see the $4.2 million he's due though. That alone gives you the money to sign player 21, and that's Bailey. Player 22 is Ohalete who is restricted in his ability to move. We still will need more youth and playmaking ability on the defensive front, but, at this point you would likely have the rest of your team set and under the cap for the duration of the next three years before you even have to contemplate making changes. I can live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I think a lot of us have soured on the idea of improving via free agency. Who can blame us? I'm not saying bringing in Jeff George, Deion, even Brad were moves that didn't have potential...but because they didn't pan out, I think we've all ignored the possibility of going to that well again. Performance anxiety, I believe its called. It will make for a dull draft, no doubt, but I think Snyder's (or whomever is truly driving our current moves) logic is hard to argue with....go after PROVEN, YOUTHFUL, and (relatively) AFFORDABLE talent. Its the 'hostile takeover' approach to the NFL...bold, brash, aggressive, you almost feel sorry for the Jets. Dan Snyder is sporting a woodie, so you'd better get out of the way. When you consider the crap-shoot type luck we've had with the draft, you have to keep an open mind here...what do we have to lose with this approach if we can do it without mortgaging our future. We may not win the Superbowl in the next 2 years, but God bless them, we are not going to be bored. I love it!:notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romberjo Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Ouch -- #13 is a high price to pay, even for a guy like Coles, who is just what the Spurrier ordered. I like the idea of our taking the untapped RFA market by storm, but couldn't we have waited until next year, when we'll have the 32d pick :cool:, so that we'd lose much less in giving up our picks? And why did we apparently offer far more than Coles was asking the Jets for (4.5 mill/year, rather than the 5 mill/year we apparently gave, w/ monster bonus, though maybe there's some high-priced voidable years at the back end). I guess partly b/c we don't want the Jets to match, but it seems they weren't even willing to talk to Coles about 4.5/year. The Jets blew it by not tendering Coles at a 1st and 3d. But I'm starting to get wary of our ravenous appetite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All In Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Several things about this that I like. Yes great job in attracting a perfect fit WR for our offense. As it says in the article, the structure of the contract will make it difficult for the Jets to match. Same thing with Coles, basically were not putting in the effort to sign these guys so that the other team can simply match it, they've done their homework and made it a really tough decision for the Jets. I don't know if the Jets will let Morton and Coles go, but I think you can gurantee that we'll get at least one of them. Some have thought that maybe that was the plan all along. If so, brilliant, if not then we just saw a competant FO that has adjusted in their plan. It's like Gibbs coming back with second half adjustments. Maybe the Jets were going to sign Morton, we put them into a position where they may not be able to sign either of them. So the Patriots pulled the wool over our eyes in the 5th round selection, we made a mistake and we had to pay for it. The FO is learning, and will better in the future for it. Screw those other teams that are scared off by this. I'm sure next year, at least a few more teams will attack FAgency as we did this year. We got the guys we wanted, set the market, and made adjustments as we went along. No 1st rounder, limited draft picks, So what. We've gone out and improved almost every hole the team had last year, and with young talent. Yes it will be a boring first day, but what an exciting off-season, hey we could always trade down in the 2nd round if you really want to recover those 6th/7th round reachers. Give credit where credit is due. EFF the Media and Hail to the Redskins..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 This guy has a chance to be really special. He did nothing the first 3 games, but when Pennington went in he was huge. I think he is more of a proven wr than Price is. Coles was go to guy with Pennington. I think he is a perfect fit for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Coles has been considered a bust up until this year. .:doh: If a team was going to trade for Coles, do you think he would be worth a #1 ranked as high as #13? I don't know about this move, this is the first move made I have questioned. I will just hope the Skin's know what they are doing, and give them the benefit of the doubt. How many more Jets can we sign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudestmonkey09 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 im salavating right now...just saw it on the the 11 o clock news and sportscenter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pga Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I'm dig'in this action. WR is by far the hardest position to learn coming out of school as some of us have discussed b4. Now we get a good, young WR with some years under his belt that can only help Ramsey. The "build by free agent" plan is always scary but from the article in the Post I posted yesterday it seems the new guys are already going out to dinner with some of the players here. So hopefully atmoshere and friendship will grow. Now offense is pretty much done and we can get a DT with our 2nd, like you guys have said, and with Big Daddy hopefully coming back we can get ready for camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1520968.html Coles to sign $35M offer sheet with Redskins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Len Pasquarelli ESPN.com Despite all Dan Snyder's maneuvering during the first week of free agency, the Washington Redskins owner had yet to address a need for outside speed on offense, failed to add a viable deep threat for Steve Spurrier's offense. Coles That may have changed, however, late Sunday night. ESPN.com has learned that, after two full days of frenetic but clandestine negotiations, the Redskins have agreed in principle to an offer sheet with New York Jets restricted free agent wide receiver Laveranues Coles. The deal is for seven years, ESPN.com has confirmed, and is worth $35 million. It includes a signing bonus of $13 million, which is the largest ever paid to a wide receiver in a first "rider," and a roster bonus of $2 million in July of 2006. The cap number for the 2003 season would be about $2.31 million. In many elements, the contract is superior to the one that Peerless Price signed on Friday with the Atlanta Falcons after being traded by the Buffalo Bills for a first-round draft choice. Coles will fly to Washington on Monday to sign the offer sheet, and it will then be submitted to the league office, barring any snags. The Jets will have one week to match it or lose their premier wide receiver to the Redskins. If The Jets decide to match, they will retain Coles, a three-year veteran, at the lucrative terms negotiated by the Redskins. If the Jets decline to match the offer, Coles would to Washington, and New York would be awarded the Redskins' first-round draft choice this year, the 13th overall selection, as compensation. New York retained a right of first refusal, and established the first-round compensation level, by tendering to Coles a qualifying offer of $1.318 million last month. It is the second time in less than a week that the Redskins signed a restricted free agent from the Jets to an offer sheet. Washington signed kick return specialist Chad Morton to a five-year, $7.945 million offer sheet last week and New York has until Thursday to either match that deal or accept at fifth-round draft pick as compensation. Washington also signed former Jets star guard Randy Thomas, who was an unrestricted free agent, to a seven-year, $28 million contract on Feb. 28, the first day of the signing period. Coles, 25, is an explosive playmaker with great speed and quickness, superb run-after-catch ability, and a tailback-type physique. Coles had a breakout season in 2002, with 89 receptions for 1,264 yards and five touchdowns. In his first two seasons the former Florida State standout, a third-round choice in the 2000 draft, totaled 81 catches, 1,238 yards and eight touchdowns. His statistics last year were comparable to those of Price and the Redskins contend that Coles posted his numbers as the Jets "lead" receiver. Price, they emphasized privately as they worked feverishly on the Coles deal during the weekend, had the benefit of playing opposite Eric Moulds in Buffalo, and usually worked against single coverage. The pursuit of Coles began late on Friday night when Snyder phoned agent Roosevelt Barnes and, after the two discussed the possibility of reaching an accord, spoke with the wide receiver via three-way hookup. On Saturday morning, Redskins personnel director Vinny Cerrato, who was in Chicago at the time, arranged for an assistant to pull three videotape clips of Coles from 2002 games and put them on Spurrier's desk for his review. Once the head coach assessed that Coles was superior to any prospect the Redskins would land with their first-round selection next month -- and that it would be less expensive to sacrifice that choice than to attempt to trade up in the round to land either Charles Rogers of Michigan State or Andre Johnson of Miami -- Snyder and Barnes intensified their negotiations. The negotiations finally wrapped up at about 11:30 p.m. after Barnes reviewed the major components details of the offer sheet with Coles and the wide receiver verbally approved it. Barnes then phoned Snyder to accept it. Barnes had met with New York officials two weeks ago at the NFL combine workouts in Indianapolis in an attempt to strike a long-term contract for his client. But those discussions were unproductive and, shortly thereafter, the negotiations broke off. It appeared, before Snyder entered the picture, that Coles would simply play for the one-year qualifying offer in 2003. He would then become eligible for unrestricted free agency next spring. Len Pasquarelli is a senior writer for ESPN.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Bubba, please tell me that's a joke. Coles was a third round pick. He's been in the league for three years. He had a 59-catch, 868-yard, 7-td year in his second season. And he was considered a bust before this year's 89-catch, 1264-yard season? Please. Coles was considered exactly what he is. A young receiver who was growing within one system. He emerged in his third season which is a lot faster than most receivers. Certainly he was never considered a "bust". Is he worth the No. 13 pick yet? Probably not. That's probably a bit too much for him. However, his numbers from last year are likely better than any rookie we could draft would do for at least another two years. I wouldn't be surprised if this is being floated more to pressure New York on Morton than an actual offer. We'll see. If it turns out to be a legitimate deal we are seeking, we would be getting a young, fairly proven player who has surpassed his drafted level to become a solid NFL receiver capable of some big numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Damn those are enormous numbers. I won't even pretend to have a real handle on our salary cap over the next few years, but hey, whatever. I'd rather pay an enormous signing bonus to a proven young NFL player than a possible bust. I mean hell, look at Peter Warrick. I love this bit though. Once the head coach assessed that Coles was superior to any prospect the Redskins would land with their first-round selection next month -- and that it would be less expensive to sacrifice that choice than to attempt to trade up in the round to land either Charles Rogers of Michigan State or Andre Johnson of Miami -- Snyder and Barnes intensified their negotiations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Mike and Mike in the morning should be funny to listen to tommorow. I wouldnt be surprised to hear Greeny go off on Synder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 $13M???? Plus a $2M roster bonus????? Man, I don't like this deal. Way, way, way too much for a WR. I wouldn't want Jerry Rice in his prime for that kind of cash. The first 4-5 seasons are hopefully a string of minimum salary seasons (which is not allowed, I know). Coles is an outstanding fit for this offense. You might not be able to get a more perfect receiver for this offense, with this personnel, at this time. But, I worry about the money. Coles seems awfully worried about getting his just due. Will his motivation/dedication flounder now? It's just way too much bonus. For $7-$8M, I would be torn. This is just a highly questionable move (on the face of it) for a team with a HUGE ticket coming up soon (Champ). There is no question that the addition of Coles would make this offense potentially lethal. You just wonder if there will be enough time to enjoy it. Everyone can't make top dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Three years. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Yeah, thats a lot of moolah. But I'm not sure you can spend reasonably anymore and contend over the long haul. The reality with free agency is you may have to pick your 2-4 year window and go for it. I've certainly had enough of losing. We've spent and still lost. So if we are overspending now at least we are doing so in areas of dire need, and picking up players with talent in their prime. To hell with it. Break the bank. Give me a playoff appearance dammit! We can second-guess later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 It is a big contract for sure, but remember that the skins are still taking a 4 mil cap for S. Davis this year....I'm sure that money as well as some additonal cap room would be used to sign champ for next year. Another thing to remember is that this contract may be extremely back loaded in years 6 and 7. In that case you have a reciver who you are paying 2-5 million in the first 5 years of the contract...which I could totally live with. Also at that point you would all but minimize his cap hit to 2 million. If that is the case then its really not a bad deal at all. Considering how well the FO has done this offseason, I would be suprised to see them kill themselves on this guy....and lets give them the benefit of the doubt till we hear otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I am referring to the off field problems that lead to him getting kicked off the FSU team. He dropped to the 3rd round, but was a possible 1st round pick before his trouble. His first two years, his attitude has been questioned. This year was the first year he has really shown what he could do since his underclassman days at FSU. So basically he has had 1 great year, a history of attitude and off field problems before this year. Maybe I am off base (and I hope I am) but there are some warning flags there that make me leary about this deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 My understanding of the rules is that the combined salaries of the first three years of the contract have to be at least the size of the signing bonus. If Coles' SB is $13M and he's getting min this season, that means that the next two years his base salaries have to > $12M. Is my interpretation correct? He practically becomes unmanageable after this season. I'm not typically a chicken little about players and their cap figures, but this one sets bells off in my head. Gotta calm down...Gotta calm down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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