MikeB Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 OK, I've had enough and need to blow some serious steam. This team is destined to be mediocre, patchwork team forever. A Frankenstein if you will. What is the infatuation with big-name, mediocre talent players like Ismael? For the life of me, I just don't get it. This guy is a freaking 33 year old, oft-injured, has-been folks. An out and out loser. Meanwhile, staring us in the face is what could be top flight, young, wide-eyed, hungry, young, cheap, talented wideout in Thompson. Someone who came into the league as a Skin and could grow as a Skin. But no. The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side with this team. Let's go after a journeyman 33 year old instead. That logic DEFINES this team. No patience, no consistency, and just the mere fact that the Skins are contemplating the move shows they haven't learned one thing. You only need ask yourself if the Eagles, a very successful organization of late, would even consider such a move? It takes all of one second to realize that they would do the opposite. They would pay their own man, nurture and grow him into an NFL caliber player. This promotes consistency and a healthy environment where players want to be. This builds a cap friendly team where the core is your own, not some other teams. This is just the latest in a series of moves that is holding this team back. Imagine if we would have just held on to Barber and signed a DL instead of bringing in Trotter? Imagine if we would have just signed a mediocre kicker instead of bringing in every out of work Gator we could find? Imagine the conservative, savvy Eagles signing Thompson and him thriving in their system, instead of ours? Sure, and let's trade a solid corner for an unknown quantity, instead of just concentrating on drafting smarter. Not Vinny and Danny though. They don't imagine these practical, intelligent moves. They want the best Frankenstein they can build... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I hardly consider Ismail a "big name" guy. Everyone knows hes mediocore thats why i think its a good deal. But i do agree with you on Thompson we should keep him. We need him he played very well and made huge strides this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I in some ways hear what you are saying, but at the you need to stop and take a breath. Granted Thompson had a good season, but at the same time you have 3 recievers who are practically of the same mold, and probably near the same talent level with R.Gardner easily holding the edge. 2 are signed and 1 is not and the skins want to revamp their WR corp by adding more speed, which means they are going to first try to address that need. The skins will probably have 6 WR on the final team with Gardner, McCants, Russell probably holding atleast 3 spots (some might say Russell is a ?, but the kid has great speed and his recovery has been going well), plus its no secret that the skins will probably draft another speed (maybe not skilled) wideout in the 2-4th round. So what else do you want...how bout experience, which the rocket has as well as a great deal of speed. That leaves you with 1 wideout spot which I'm sure the skins think (and probably correctly) can fill with say a Skaggs or similar type reciever......Now from my vantage point a line up like this would greatly increase the WR speed of the skins with a likely being 1 Garner, 2 Rocket, 3 McCants, 4 Russell, with Betts or Watson at the RB....I'm sorry but that to me could be a good mix of speed and possession type skill. I certainly don't think if the skins get Rocket that he will be here past 2 years, but it would mean that the skins would be less dependent on the draft as far as signing a top level WR....they could concentrate on that more next offseason, which trying to address more D & O line needs this draft. The skins cant fill all there long term needs over night...which I think most don't really understand. As far as Thompson, we had 1 good season, but paying him starter money when you really view him as a 3rd or 4th wideout in you grand plans is not a smart idea either..especially with a similar signed McCants at the min already signed....and for God sakes quit bring up the Eagles as Thrash, Kalu, and Barber.....they maybe good 2nd or 3rd tier players but they arn't by any means pro bowlers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboykilla Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Are we forgetting how close the Eagles keep coming to the big dance but fall JUST short? That leads me to believe that maybe if they had have grown some balls one of these off seasons and got a big name FA, maybe that would be the move that would put them over the edge. Not saying it's an automatic bid the Super Bowl when you get a big name FA, but think about the Eagles with a gigantic WR, i.e. Boston. The Eagles with a David Boston caliber WR on their team would have had a better shot to beat the Bucs this past year, dont ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Smitty Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Yes it kills me how people always bring up the eagles as the team to copy. They have flunked out of the playoffs the last couple years. Granted they are in the playoffs, but the superbowl teams of the past couple years have relied heavily on free agency. Look at the Bucs: Simeon Rice, Brad Johnson, Joe Jurevicus, Keenan Mcardell, Keyshawn Johnson, Michael Pittman. All these guys were brought in through trade or free agency over the past couple years and played a huge part in the super bowl victory. Patriots: I'm not sure of the exact number of people they brought in, but it was well documented how they brought in all these "older castoffs" who would come and play for small contracts because they had something to prove. Sounds kinda similar to the Ismais situation. Ravens: Borth Siragusa and Adams were brought in as free agents. They had Rod Woodsoon playing great at free safety when he was supposedly washed up. Trent Dilfer was a free agent. There is no science to making a football team, but it's not like the eagles are the ideal team to follow. Also where did Kirkland, Barber, Bishop, Freeman, and Levens come from. That is three starters for that team last year who were brought in as veteran FA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathByLinebacker Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 The Ravens also signed Shannon Sharpe and would not have been in the Super Bowl without the plays he made in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Murphaaay Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Excellent Post man. Very valid points. I'd rather be active in free agency and draft intelligently also. Imagine Ramsey throwing to a David Boston & Rod Gardner, and a decent draft pick along with McCants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Since when is Ismail a big name? Look, Gardner, McCants, and Thompson are all the EXACT same player-- and last year, that trio was OK, but not good enough. We need a more "diverse" WR crew this year. Thompson is a decent player, but it seems clear that we have a logjam there and he needs to go. Gardner is a really good #2 WR and hopefully our draft pick will be the complement we need and bring the "dynamic" talent that we need to run this offense correctly. Then, it's always nice to have a speedburner or two---- Ismail fits that mold. As long as he's cheap (which he will be), I fail to see why this is a bad move at all. Gardner #1 pick/top level free agent Ismail McCants Russell Looks like a good crew to me, one where each guy would have a defined role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Kleese and RD before him kind of have my thinking here on this. Ismail is hardly a big name to be honest. Further, with Gardner and McCants, we have two guys who provide the same type of ability and upside as Thompson. I would prefer Thompson over Ismail as well, but, we need some specific types of players to emerge and fill roles. We can't have three guys running slants every third down and a lot of times that's the types of routes Spurrier had to call because his guys could do that and excel doing it. Given that two of these guys are signed and the team wants to do a shake up at this spot, it seems like Thompson would be the guy unlucky enough to have had his career year to this point during his contract year. I think he's as fast as Ismail but he's a long strider and I think Ismail is probably quicker and may upgrade the speed the team's been talking about at least in that fashion. I'm not done thinking Thompson may be brought back, but I believe he's going to have his chance to test the waters a bit and sign a bigger contract that we would or should give him making this decision a little easier. Again, I do prefer Thompson over Ismail. I just think there are more factors than just an individual preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleSteve Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Originally posted by cowboykilla The Eagles with a David Boston caliber WR on their team would have had a better shot to beat the Bucs this past year, dont ya think? This could have been a factor. However, the bigger factor is the coaching staff tightening up and McNabb's inconsistency. Getting rid of the WCO would help as well. I do agree with you, though. They need to make a decent signing at least to keep the fans on their side. In spite of what Reid continues to say, the wide receivers are mediocre at best and are a detriment to the team. Fortunately for the Eagles, the rest of the division has been average the last two years. That won't be the case in the near future. The must learn to improve even more, while keeping as much of the team together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 MikeB- Do you realize Barber was asking for $3m a year to stay here? No way was he worth that kind of money. He's back to asking for that again, and the Iggles look ready to let him walk. I'd really like to keep Thompson as well. Other than the last game, he was clearly our best receiver the second half of the season. But, if he wants $2m a year to play here based on 5 or 6 good games, that's too much of a gamble, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Cool out, lol. Rocket isn't being thought of as a #2 go to kinda guy. Jeez, anyone ever heard of valium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskin56 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Ismail is not a big name WR. However, IMHO that's exactly what we need here. We can't afford to sign a big name like Boston. If we go out and sign someone like that to a big $$ contract, what happens when we want to resign Champ or Lavar or Samules in the future. We all hate when the Skins let one of our own guys go to another team. Look towards the future here. In the next year we have to resign Champ and he's going to be the highest paid CB in the league. In a couple years we have to resign Lavar and Samuels. Both will likely be paid as the highest at their posisitons. If we go out and sign high $$ FAs this year or next year, we won't be able to keep our young stars. If we're going to sign a FA WR, then I say sign a guy like Ismail. He'll be affordable and give us the speed we require in SSs offense. Don't spend unwisely now because it will haunt us in the future. For all of those who say the FO doesn't know what they're doing, let me throw this out at you. If we are careful with FA signings and don't try and break the bank with player contracts in the next couple of years, the dead money from Davis (likely big Daddy) and others will be gone. If we have virtually no dead money, we will be able to resign Champ, Lavar, Samuels, Ramsey and other young talents to the contracts that will be required to keep them here. This brings continuity and success. Maybe the FO is smarter than we're giving them credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I prefer Thompson over Rocket also but if signing rocket to the minimum means we can focus on the D line in the first round you won't hear any complaints from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Go back and watch the Eagle games from last year. Pay close attention to the amount of seperation between the three possesion receivers vs. the philly secondary. This should lament your decision to let Thompson walk for a more speedier receiver. Couple that with the size/speed ratio of Gardner /Thompson/ McCants. With McCants under contract and a mere clone of Thompson, and some would argue a higher upside, just why on earth would we resign Thompson? Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 No the case is not closed....if you actually watched and understood the game you would have relized the skins WR's only got good seperation after the Eagles had opened up a sizeable lead against us and moved to more soft zone coverages. In the second game we exploited those and got a couple of long TD's out of it, but their is no way they play that type of coverage in a close game.....thats why you need a couple of deep threat receivers to open things up underneath for Garner and McCants and the Rb's. As far as the Rocket not being a #2 WR...that is probably fair, but with the skins inability to get a top tier speed reciever this offseason I really don't care what #'s you call our wideouts....instead you need a couple of quick bodies that can get open...which the rocket has done in the past, with above average hands.....he's not a long term answer, just a plug till next offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 I'm calm. I just would like to see this FO grow some of it's own players and stop the band-aid approach. Some of you got hung up by me describing Ismael as a big name. My mistake. He is a household-name player though. I just wish the Skins would sign a youger guy with potential instead of someone who's career is over and is most likely going through the motions and playing out the string. Let him do that somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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