eeyeats Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Keep in mind these are likely public defenders who don't make a lot of money and lose a lot of cases. but let's not confuse that with being bad attorneys. public defenders are often excellent lawyers who choose to take a lower paying job in the interest of public service. don't equate public defender with instant loser. they are often dealt very difficult cases and work in a system built against them. and no, i am not a public defender, but i am an attorney. :2cents: EDIT: RedskinInExile, I just saw your post and agree 100%. sorry to be redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 Its probably the evidence and the kids confessions. Once you confess... its over. If you are an attorney' date=' and your client has confessed, you would be an idiot to me arguing innocence. [/quote'] Probably because they confessed? LOL! ummm maybe because of the confessions????? haha I have heard legal experts say that confessions don't mean a whole lot in court. I have also heard defense lawyers successfully claim that the confessions were coerced by the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vi Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I am not buying a word of it..this may go a little off topic...my younger brother was hit hard by this and immaturely decided to email one of their friends on myspace...I told him not to that let God judge and just leave it be and do not give those cowards the time of day.... He said his thing and one of the killers friend replied back "haha we toasted that n*****' date=' thats how we roll" so either he was just trying to piss off my brother or he/they mentalities are nothing but punks and the ones that are in jail are only showing remorse to get out of jail or to get a lighter sentence[/quote'] :doh: That's one of the the worst things I've ever heard. How do you reach these kids? I get their lives may not have been peachy, but to have no respect from human life? That is almost unnatural. It is not my tendency to wish harm on anyone, but I do hope they realize how wrong their attitudes are, whatever it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herb mul-key Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 yea suicide watch is a sympahy ploy...these punks have no remorse...from the myspace pages that I have peaked at they are traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaash and puuuuuuuuuuuuuuunks and I would love to see the 5 biggest ESer's in a little street brawl with these 5 puuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunks. Damn them!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ez2envy Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 So what type of time are these kids facing? They have 3 serious charges and all have priors. And I kno Floridas gun laws are pretty tough seeing tayloer was facing 20 years just for showing a gun. But for any legal buffs what r these kids looking at??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesecondquarter Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I am keeping a close eye on this case like many of you are. I keep going to the Miami Herald website to view updates. The 20yr old suspects lawyer says his client was thier in the car but he had no idea anybody had a gun. Then some of the boys wan't to play the game of lets make a deal. Iam waiting for the 5th suspect to be charged in the case. They keep saying they are looking for someone. Then they say they have & are questioning someone in the case. Our Justice System needs major reforms. Somepeople want OJ Simpson put away because he robbed someone with his gang. They did not kill anyone or hurt anyone. OJ says it was his stuff anyway but people wan't to put him away for a longtime because he got away with another crime. Don't get me wrong am no big fan of OJ. With Seans murder this scum did it some even confess to doing it. They all should get death if not that a stiff sentence of Life without parole or at least 50yrs each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsMaster88 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Anyone know if the 17-year-old will specifically be charged as a minor, or if that would affect the sentencing (as to any conditions set by Florida law)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton "F'n" Portis Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Think I saw an article on WP saying the fifth suspect was 16 years old!! Damn shame...will look for link EDIT: yup...it is a 16 year old :doh: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/03/AR2007120302141.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogLife4Ever Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 They will all pay for what they did for the rest of their lives, whether its behind bars or not. For the record I hope they lock them up, throw away the key and powder their French Toast with Anthrax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalRecall Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Because I believe 3 already confessed to at least breaking and entering at the robbery attempt. The only thing is who's going down for the murder. They will probably do plea deals to get testimony on the gunman. They all need to go to prison for a while because they are no doubt going to be doing crime soon after they are out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pookie Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/03/AR2007120302141.html ... The fifth suspect is related to one of the four men already in custody, said the source, who declined to be identified by name. ""Individually, the defense teams are trying to distance their clients from any knowledge that a gun was being used in the burglary, a strategy that could help fend off a felony murder charge. Under felony murder rules, a defendant may be liable for murder even if he did not pull the trigger. The new details suggest that the burglary was a haphazard affair characterized by amateur mistakes and confusion. An attorney for one of the four men arrested said his client had been "recruited" to drive the burglars, all from the Fort Myers area, to the Miami suburb where Taylor has a home. He was the only one with a valid Florida driver's license, the attorney said. This is getting crazier. Given their records, it's not surprising none but the oe recruited to drive had a valid DL. And the 5th suspected related to one of the 4? I'm placing my bets that it's Christopher Wardlow, cousin of Charles Wardlow. Cristopher is the b/f of Sean's 14 yr. old sister Jazmin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeyeats Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Because I believe 3 already confessed to at least breaking and entering at the robbery attempt. The only thing is who's going down for the murder. They will probably do plea deals to get testimony on the gunman. They all need to go to prison for a while because they are no doubt going to be doing crime soon after they are out. actually, the most likely charge is felony murder, which has no mens rea requirement, it is a strict liability offense. what that means is, roughly, if you are actively participating in the commission of a felony, and a death occurs, you are guilty of murder, even if you didn't mean to do it, or didn't pull the trigger. by being part of the felony you are guilty of the murder as well, regardless of whether you intended someone to die. (for the other attorneys, you know this is a loose explanation, but suitable for this forum). therefore, they are all guilty of felony murder, if the burglary is proven in court. also, for those interested in how the age of the suspects plays into this - you cannot execute minors. if the suspect committed the crime while under the age of 18, the supreme court has ruled they may not be executed, even if by the time they are convicted, they are over 18. so at least one of the 4, and the possible 5th, would not face the death penalty. the rest may face the death penalty as they are in florida (high execution state) and felony murder is treated as first degree murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico926 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Don't fall for that.That's exactly what the defense wants you to believe. They are going straight for the sympathy jugular. ST did not know these kids. He'd employed one once to mow his yard at the rec of his sister, who was dating his friend's cousin. As for the "parties", it was one, and the one doing the inviting was Jazmin Taylor, all of 14 years old, not Sean, in honor of her birthday. I don't think that Jazmin was the sister that knwe these clowns. I believe that is was his other half sister Sasha or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinInExile Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I'm not sure if they can charge all 4 with felony murder even though there could have been only 1 triggerman firing the fatal blow. Fl. case law seems to suggest that, if the State can prove all of the defendants broke into Sean's house with the intent to burglarize it, and that the shots were fired in the course of the burglary, all of them are guilty of 2d degree murder: "Felons are generally held responsible for the acts of their co-felons. As perpetrators of an underlying felony, co-felons are principals in any homicide committed to further or prosecute the initial common criminal design. One who participates with another in a common criminal scheme is guilty of all crimes committed in furtherance of that scheme regardless of whether he or she physically participates in that crime." --Barron v. State, a 2007 case from Florida's third district, which, by happy coincidence, is where these's punks' trial will take place. As for Florida gun laws: there's a mandatory minimum sentencing statute for gun crimes in Florida. If someone's hurt or killed by a gun during a crime, there's a minimum setence of 25 to life. However, as anyone familiar with the law will tell you, "mandatory" doesn't always mean "mandatory," and I wouldn't be surprised to see one of the defendant's roll on the others for a lesser sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeyeats Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 The felony murder doctrine is a real interesting principle of law which allows someone to be convicted of 2nd degree murder (which means the unpremeditated - or unplanned - killing of another) when someone dies as a result of the defendants' commission of another violent crime (such as rape, armed robbery, aggravated assault, etc.). This doctrine has been used to convict a suspect running from the police after a shootout when 1 cop accidently shoots another cop, thinking its the suspect. The suspect could have been 5 miles away from the accidental shooting, but he can still be convicted of felony murder because his unlawful actions caused the accidental shooting of the cop (of course, there are caveats and limitations, but you get the basic concept). yes, they may all be charged, and felony murder is generally treated as first degree murder, although i know in florida it has it's own classification. (just consulted my FL attorney friend who is a PD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pookie Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I don't think that Jazmin was the sister that knwe these clowns. I believe that is was his other half sister Sasha or something like that. You're right. It's Sasha. My bad. And speaking of Sasha...I'm placing my bet now. The 5th suspect is going to turn out to be Christopher Wardlow (Charles' cousin), since it's getting leaked all over the place that the 5th suspect is related to oneof the 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 yes, they may all be charged, and felony murder is generally treated as first degree murder, although i know in florida it has it's own classification. (just consulted my FL attorney friend who is a PD). They had a legal expert on CNN the other night who said all in the house could be charged with murder, the same as the shooter (FLA law). She also said that the machete has no bearing on the case since it happened inside his house and he was defending it. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pookie Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Local Fox affiliate reporting Venjah Hunte was the driver (the only one w/ valid DL). His lawyer says Hunte is remorseful and send condolences to the families and that he was aware of the funeral. Lawyer also claims Hunte states he was unaware anyone had a gun. Yeah right. Then the idiot mouthy lawyer, Eric Rivera's, insists his client isn't shooter despite what is being said. Also played the victim of circumstance card. He says this EVERY f-ing time you hear a sound bite from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinInExile Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 She also said that the machete has no bearing on the case since it happened inside his house and he was defending it. :2cents: Yep-- Florida has uses the "Castle" doctrine-- basically, you can use lethal force to defend yourself in your home without trying to escape first. Since "self-defense" is only a valid defense against illegal aggression, it wouldn't have mattered if Sean had chopped one of the punks in half first-- you still can't shoot him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesecondquarter Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/03/AR2007120302141.html ... This is getting crazier. Given their records, it's not surprising none but the oe recruited to drive had a valid DL. And the 5th suspected related to one of the 4? I'm placing my bets that it's Christopher Wardlow, cousin of Charles Wardlow. Cristopher is the b/f of Sean's 14 yr. old sister Jazmin. Pookie no Christopher Devon Wardlow age 21yrs is not the boyfriend of the sister Jazmin 14yrs. He is the boyfriend of Sasha Johnson the 21 year old sister of Sean Taylor. Sasha is the one that had the birthday party back in Oct. But in that clip of Jason Mitchell the 19yr old suspect his mother is on the phone with a Devon. She says Devon they say Sasha paid them to come down there & do that. Devon on the phone with her is most likely the same Christopher Devon Wardlow Sasha Johonson's boyfriend. Did anybody find any pictures of Sasha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pookie Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Pookie no Christopher Devon Wardlow age 21yrs is not the boyfriend of the sister Jazmin 14yrs. He is the boyfriend of Sasha Johnson the 21 year old sister of Sean Taylor. Sasha is the one that had the birthday party back in Oct. But in that clip of Jason Mitchell the 19yr old suspect his mother is on the phone with a Devon. She says Devon they say Sasha paid them to come down there & do that. Devon on the phone with her is most likely the same Christopher Devon Wardlow Sasha Johonson's boyfriend. Did anybody find any pictures of Sasha? Yup dear, we cleared that. Read further... Hmm...I haven't seen any pics of Sasha in our local press...surely she was at the funeral altho I'm not aware of which fam memeber she'd be. The one that sticks fresh is he younger Jazmin (b/c she spoke at the funeral). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siven Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I feel bad for their families and also them. Five lives are destroyed now. Obviously, these kids deserve whatever punishment they receive, but I think it's a little bit sad that people so young have completely ****ed their lives up. You get one chance at life, and they blew it big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesecondquarter Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Yup dear, we cleared that. Read further... Hmm...I haven't seen any pics of Sasha in our local press...surely she was at the funeral altho I'm not aware of which fam memeber she'd be. The one that sticks fresh is he younger Jazmin (b/c she spoke at the funeral). I don't know when the family was at the hospital & the press had pictures of some of them outside if she was in one. I thought I saw a younger lady that kinda favored the mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Keep in mind these are likely public defenders who don't make a lot of money and lose a lot of cases. ________________________________ Sadly not the case, these are two high profile local attorneys. Wilbur Smith is the former Mayor of Fort Myers, and Micheal Hornung or Peter Ringsmith are very active civil trail attorneys. I am sitill confused as too which took the other defendant. Wilbur Smith is old Fort Myers, and his son is also representing one of the defendants. This is another aspect that makes me truly sad being in Fort Myers now for twenty year and running the Redskins Fanclub here locally. Hornung and Smith are doing this for the publicity and nothing else, it is free nationwide name dropping, what a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#21Taylor4Ever Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Yeah Im definitely going to have to agree with most here.....those confessions basically ended any chance of these defense attorneys "defending" anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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