Jason Whitlock: Taylor's death a grim reminder for us all

[ccsl2]

Please tell me this is sarcasm and you aren't actually trying to make a point with jayz's poem.

No Sarcasm at all B_H....To sit here and say that Hip hop music is the sole blame for the problems in the black community is assanine at best. That is basically what he saying. You might not like it, but the truth isn't angry.

[ccsl2]

whitlock is a young african american reporter trying to satisfy white america!!

He to me is worse than the KKK becuase he has no soultuion to anything and always gives an opinion that always put young african americans out there as if there criminals. shall we go on?

Now that I agree with. And Whitlock is one of my favorite columnist.

[Brown_Hornet]

No Sarcasm at all B_H....To sit here and say that Hip hop music is the sole blame for the problems in the black community is assanine at best. That is basically what he saying. You might not like it, but the truth isn't angry.

No, you've gotten too defensive about the genure that you're not reading accurately. He's suggested that HH is a big part of the problem, not the sole reason.

That's what happens on MBs. Folks take a bite out of an article or a post and make it bigger than it is.

HipHop is part of the problem. If you disagree, than we can simply agree to disagree.

[unclejack8]

No he doesn't. He simply reports and opines on what he sees...on what I see.

He didn't say that HipHop started violence or that it's removal would halt violence. Too many folks want a cure-all for what ails them. That doesn't usually exist. There are several factors at play with regards to violent crime. Hiphop is just one of them. It most definately glorifies and perpetuates the problems within the black community.

I agree that hip-hop has its influence in the black community, but far more than music the culture of young african americans is beginning to change and when you keep referencing one part of society we all get put in. All of our young black americans are not repsonsible for this.

[stevenaa]

whitlock is a young african american reporter trying to satisfy white america!!

He to me is worse than the KKK becuase he has no soultuion to anything and always gives an opinion that always put young african americans out there as if there criminals. shall we go on?

Or maybe he is simply a young african american wanting better for the young african american youth in this country. Reads to me like he is troubled by the violence. Maybe you should be less concerned with "white america" (what a stupidly racist comment, by the way), and more concerned with the ills of our black youth.

[ccsl2]

No he doesn't. He simply reports and opines on what he sees...on what I see.

He didn't say that HipHop started violence or that it's removal would halt violence. Too many folks want a cure-all for what ails them. That doesn't usually exist. There are several factors at play with regards to violent crime. Hiphop is just one of them. It most definately glorifies and perpetuates the problems within the black community.

Hip hop is more of a symptom than the actual problem. Because there are mors positivies in hip hop than negative, unfortunately in today's society no one wants to put money behind or promote the positive messages of Talib Kweli, Common, Little Brother, KRS-One, The Roots, etc.

And it is kinda surprising coming from Whitlock because he was one of the few in the media who didn't blame the steroid era on Barry Bonds. He put the onus on upper mamagement, which was dead on. But now hip hop is the first reason that is used when a black man dies in his home protecting his family. I am not buying it.

[unclejack8]

I agree that hip-hop has its influence in the black community, but far more than music the culture of young african americans is beginning to change and when you keep referencing one part of society we all get put in. All of our young black americans are not repsonsible for this.

You know what I apologize for getting political and from here on its football and football only...sorry whitlock this is a football site and i love the skins!!!

[Om]

whitlock is a young african american reporter trying to satisfy white america!!

Says who? You? Certainly you're entitled to your opinion, but my read on the column suggests nothing of the kind. Frankly, as part of "white america," I have absolutely no idea what you think in this column was supposedly written to "satisfy" me.

To me, the man wrote a passionate, strongly worded and timely column about something I see no indication he does not believe in. Something, by the way, that he is hardly the only black writer or public figure to have talked about or believe in.

He to me is worse than the KKK becuase he has no soultuion to anything and always gives an opinion that always put young african americans out there as if there criminals. shall we go on?

His column suggests several "solutions" to the specific problem of black-on-black murder. How did you miss them?

And do you know for a fact that he isn't himself personally involved in programs or activities designed as "solutions" to the problem?

And did you consider that he IS doing something about it by writing this piece? Fact is he's standing up and talking about it, loudly, in a very public way, dragging what is clearly a difficult and controversial subject into the light, and in doing so subjecting himself to exactly the same kind of vitriol you're directing his way.

Why would he do that? To "satisfy white america," whatever that means, or maybe because social problems only ever get seriously addressed once they become so much a part of the daily conversation and enough outrage accrues to where the weight the social momentum finally begins the slow march toward progress?

I think it's clear which you think his motivation is.

All you've done is throw accusations at the man, with absolutely nothing to back them up. If you have something tangible to support any of them, by all means please do share them as they'd be a logical sidebar to the issue. If not, however, then no, please don't go on.

[ccsl2]

No, you've gotten too defensive about the genure that you're not reading accurately. He's suggested that HH is a big part of the problem, not the sole reason.

That's what happens on MBs. Folks take a bite out of an article or a post and make it bigger than it is.

HipHop is part of the problem. If you disagree, than we can simply agree to disagree.

Not too defensive at all. In my first post I said hip hop is not blameless. But Whitlock's article said DAMN RIGHT I BLAME HIP HOP FOR BLAK CON BLAKC CRIME. He didn't say that parents need to stop letting MTV, BET, etc. raise their kids. He didn't say that their are positive influences in Hip Hop that need to get more exposure. He put a label on Hip Hop across the board. He also didn't say that most of the people buying these hip hop albums are white teenagers, and they are not killing each other. So it is much much bigger than laying this at the feet of Hip Hop. I think that is what NEEDS to be said.

[unclejack8]

Says who? You? Certainly you're entitled to your opinion, but my read on the column suggests nothing of the kind. Frankly, as part of "white america," I have absolutely no idea what you think in this column was supposedly written to "satisfy" me.

To me, the man wrote a passionate, strongly worded and timely column about something I see no indication he does not believe in. Something, by the way, that he is hardly the only black writer or public figure to have talked about or believe in.

His column suggests several "solutions" to the specific problem of black-on-black murder. How did you miss them?

And do you know for a fact that he isn't himself personally involved in programs or activities designed as "solutions" to the problem?

And did you consider that he IS doing something about it by writing this piece? Fact is he's standing up and talking about it, loudly, in a very public way, dragging what is clearly a difficult and controversial subject into the light, and in doing so subjecting himself to exactly the same kind of vitriol you're directing his way.

Why would he do that? To "satisfy white america," whatever that means, or maybe because social problems only ever get seriously addressed once they become so much a part of the daily conversation and enough outrage accrues to where the weight the social momentum finally begins the slow march toward progress.

I think it's clear what you think his motivation is. All you've done is throw accusations at the man, with absolutely nothing to back them up. If you have something tangible to support any of them, by all means please do share them as they'd be a logical sidebar to the issue. If not, however, then no, please don't go on.

You have no idea where I'm coming from and I will respect that. Mr. Whitlock is a great reporter and I'll leave it at that. The arguemnt is larger than either of us. God Bless and GO SKINS:cheers:

[pennstate10]

Lots of interesting points in this thread.

As a newcomer to this internet community (but not to the DC community) its very refreshing to hear a number of well-thought out, intelligently argued social positions on a football message board.

(By the way, sorry about the "stupid pills" crack--that was written by my evil twin Skippy).

To be sure, hip-hop music never killed anyone. But what Whitlock was saying (I think) was that the attitudes, and world-view that are an integral part of hip-hop culture are toxic.

And I agree as others have posted, that misogyny and black-on-black violence are long-standing problems, that existed before hip-hop (although I believe they have worsened with the rise of hip-hop culture).

And I agree with the general tone of this thread, that the single most important component of a solution to this problem is not censorship of songs, but is better parenting.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

If you are curious as to what at least of portion of young black America thinks of Whitlock, I highly highly recommend:

http://thestartingfive.wordpress.com

I don't always agree with this site. In fact, over the past few months, I've occasionally found myself yelling at the screen when reading them. But the Taylor coverage has pretty much proved them exactly right on all their core beliefs.

Michelle……yes it is…but its right in keeping with the continuing dehumanization of the black athlete. We are supposed to forget these are human beings, somebody’s son, brother, father, friend…nope, we’re supposed to feel that whatever situation he is in, its of his own doing, there are no extenuating circumstances. He is fighting for his life because he didn’t go to the rookie symposium or he got in a fight 3 years ago or he doesn’t like to talk to reporters, the list goes on and on. The coverage is right in line with all that has transpired over 2007…..I really can’t expect anything else from ESPN or the others like them.

If it was Favre, they’d be holding vigil on every ESPN and FOX site around, and I’d bet they wouldn’t be insinuating that the supplier of those drugs he was taking put a bullet in him…

Old article on Whitlock:

Jason “Big Sexy” Whitlock has told me to “mind [my] own damn business” when it comes to his mission to lead a new Civil Rights movement against “black idiots”. But whether you are talking about Whitlock or someone hanging a noose on a tree, there is a problem when you say, “Just ignore it and it will go away.”

Whitlock’s latest on Fox Sports, titled, “NFL buffoons leaving terrible legacy” takes it to even another level. It’s an ugly clarion call for athletic ethnic cleansing. He makes the case that the NFL is getting whiter, all thanks to black “hip hop buffoons” who are alienating owners, coaches, and fans. He writes, “African-American football players caught up in the rebellion and buffoonery of hip hop culture have given NFL owners and coaches a justifiable reason to whiten their rosters.” Justifiable: meaning it is a process he both defends and understands.

[PortisFan123]

Don't misunderstand what he is saying. He is talking about what is glorified, what is purchased and embraced symbolically in this society by our youth, particularly our Black youth. It is violence, possessions, disrespect towards women, who are viewed as nothing more then objects and it IS black on black violence. And at the core is jealousy and envy. And NO it is not ALL Black youth but it is a prevalence that is there.

The reference to Hip-Hop is the glorification of the lifestyle and the beliefs. Of course it is not the CAUSE it is the effect and the feelings and the representation of what it stands for that Whitlock is talking about.

And most of all he is talking about something very sad. Trying to better yourself and pull away from the streets and the lifestyle it involves means you collect enemies. Disengaging and bettering yourself is not approved of and is considered selling out to the "system." It is like a gang. Calling it the Black KKK is just another reference for a gang...yet one with a mentality organization rather then something concretely organized such as the Bloods or the Krips. The music is simply an offshoot, a representation for a lifestyle that is embraced, with all its nuances and implications. And you do not have to believe it, no you don't. And you do not have to believe me or a Whitlock. But I worked in New York City for years on the streets with young people, Black and White and Latin and I am telling you Whitlock has nailed it. I worked with some kids that were so damn smart, intellectually and excelled on some testing but they refused and I mean refused to disengage themselves from their peers and move away. Staying because to do the other, was considered a "sell out." Most of all they felt a sense of belonging, and that impacted all their decisions.

Rolle of the Cardinals is right on in his interview. Sean Taylor had many, many enemies because he disengaged. I don't believe it was a random burgalary at all. You don't come into someone's home 8 days previous, take nothing, leave a knife and come back 8 days later. I believe Sean Taylor was a courageous young man, and I believe someone's envy killed him.

[Cyber Pimp]

America was built off of violence. Take a look at what the pilgrims did to the indians. Look at all the cartoons that we watched as kids (voltron, Gi Joe) Even loony tunes was violent. With out crime lawyers, judges, probation officers, warden and everybody else would be getting paid as much. This country was built off of corupt sh*t from day numeral uno.

Music and guns dont kill people. People with weak minds kill people.

[stevenaa]

Don't misunderstand what he is saying. He is talking about what is glorified, what is purchased and embraced symbolically in this society by our youth, particularly our Black youth. It is violence, possessions, disrespect towards women, who are viewed as nothing more then objects and it IS black on black violence. And at the core is jealousy and envy. And NO it is not ALL Black youth but it is a prevalence that is there.

The reference to Hip-Hop is the glorification of the lifestyle and the beliefs. Of course it is not the CAUSE it is the effect and the feelings and the representation of what it stands for that Whitlock is talking about.

And most of all he is talking about something very sad. Trying to better yourself and pull away from the streets and the lifestyle it involves means you collect enemies. Disengaging and bettering yourself is not approved of and is considered selling out to the "system." It is like a gang. Calling it the Black KKK is just another reference for a gang...yet one with a mentality organization rather then something concretely organized such as the Bloods or the Krips. The music is simply an offshoot, a representation for a lifestyle that is embraced, with all its nuances and implications. And you do not have to believe it, no you don't. And you do not have to believe me or a Whitlock. But I worked in New York City for years on the streets with young people, Black and White and Latin and I am telling you Whitlock has nailed it. I worked with some kids that were so damn smart, intellectually and excelled on some testing but they refused and I mean refused to disengage themselves from their peers and move away. Staying because to do the other, was considered a "sell out." Most of all they felt a sense of belonging, and that impacted all their decisions.

Rolle of the Cardinals is right on in his interview. Sean Taylor had many, many enemies because he disengaged. I don't believe it was a random burgalary at all. You don't come into someone's home 8 days previous, take nothing, leave a knife and come back 8 days later. I believe Sean Taylor was a courageous young man, and I believe someone's envy killed him.

Seems to me this goes back to parenting and instilling a sense of family at home, instead of having young kids get their sense of family from their boys in the streets. I can absolutely see how young men could have trouble leaving behind those who they relate to as family.

[SteelNeil]

"You're damn straight I blame hip hop for playing a role in the genocide of American black men. When your leading causes of death and dysfunction are murder, ignorance and incarceration, there's no reason to give a free pass to a culture that celebrates murder, ignorance and incarceration.

Of course there are other catalysts, but until we recapture the minds of black youth, convince them that it's not OK to "super man dat ho" and end any and every dispute by "****ing on your *****," nothing will change."

This article should be required reading for anyone wanting to understand the cause(s) of so many wasted young lives.............

You can't blame Hip-Hop entirely, it does however play a significant role in the glorification of violence, theft and lawlessness. Sometimes Art imitates life. What kills me is the Hip-Hop Public Service campaign of "Stop Snitching:. Growing up we had One to Grow By on NBC, and today kids have a thinnly veiled threat throw in their face.

:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Whitlock is a clown who is on the same level of Imus and Bill O'Riley... he has no message, he says these outlandish things to get a rise out of people

this is the same bafoon who ate ribs on TV... ignore him

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Don't misunderstand what he is saying. He is talking about what is glorified, what is purchased and embraced symbolically in this society by our youth, particularly our Black youth. It is violence, possessions, disrespect towards women, who are viewed as nothing more then objects and it IS black on black violence. And at the core is jealousy and envy. And NO it is not ALL Black youth but it is a prevalence that is there.

Of course there is a a germ of truth in what he is saying. But at a time when the entirety of the sports media has become the "Black Athlete Misbehavior Network," Whitlock is doing little more than providing cover for the Colin Cowherds and Skip Baylesses of the world. They can more or less say that Taylor is to blame for his death and can point to Jason and say, "See....a black man agrees with me. I can't be racist."

I am always a little suspicious of those who have written a self-professed anti-orthodoxy to fame, because it tends to come across as disingenuous. Whitlock is ten times more famous now than he ever was prior to this Black KKK crusade.

[NOVA2Tampa]

FACT: Much of hip hop music glorifies the "gangsta" lifestyle of guns, drugs, easy $$$, fancy cars, promiscuity, etc.

FACT: The majority of people who buy and listen to hip hop music are WHITE, yet they don't go around killing each other in gory displays of violent machismo.

FACT: The violent crime rate for blacks is about SEVEN TIMES that of whites.

FACT: 99% of all black men who are murdered are murdered by another black man.

Hip hop doesn't help the situation, but it's not the only issue. Something is seriously wrong with black culture in America. I don't claim to have the answers, but the problems are IOTTMCO. Blacks are not inferior to whites in any way, but unless black people and more importantly black leaders take responsibility for their children and their communities and stop playing the "victim" card, they will always be treated as "second class" citizens.

Ya can't blame "whitey" for your problems, folks...

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

FACT: Much of hip hop music glorifies the "gangsta" lifestyle of guns, drugs, easy $$$, fancy cars, promiscuity, etc.

FACT: The majority of people who buy and listen to hip hop music are WHITE, yet they don't go around killing each other in gory displays of violent machismo.

FACT: The violent crime rate for blacks is about SEVEN TIMES that of whites.

FACT: 99% of all black men who are murdered are murdered by another black man.

Hip hop doesn't help the situation, but it's not the only issue. Something is seriously wrong with black culture in America. I don't claim to have the answers, but the problems are IOTTMCO. Blacks are not inferior to whites in any way, but unless black people and more importantly black leaders take responsibility for their children and their communities and stop playing the "victim" card, they will always be treated as "second class" citizens.

Ya can't blame "whitey" for your problems, folks...

something is wrong with the poor of America.... the same stuff happens for all races that are poor... its just that black people make up the majority...

did Toby Keith make those West Virginian savages enslave and rape and brand that 24 year old black girl? lets be real here... the media is trying to blame someone for the issue of violence in America... as always it has to have a black face, and that black face is Hip Hop...

[McMetal]

I generally like Whitlock's stuff, but piggybacking this tragedy with the usual racial commentary seems crass to me.

Give us our time to grieve.

[stwasm]

Everything Whitlock says in this article -- and other articles -- is true about what we as blacks are doing to ourselves. We engage in more destructive behavior than the Klan ever did to us. However, the only point Whitlock misses is that Taylor actually tried to turn his life around and get away from those "unsavory characters." But, he's absolutely right about the "Black KKK." I can relate to being ridiculed for speaking "proper English" and "embracing education."

It reminds me of one of my all-time favorite rap songs, which came out in the early '90s -- when rap wasn't so raunchy. It's called "Self-Destruction" and you should download it some time because it still holds true today. As part of the lyrics go:

Back in the sixties our brothers and sisters were hanged

How could you gang bang?

I never ever ran from the Ku Klux Klan

and I shouldn't have to run from a black man cause that's

Self Destruction, ya headed for Self Destruction

Self Destruction, ya headed for Self Destruction

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Everything Whitlock says in this article -- and other articles -- is true about what we as blacks are doing to ourselves. We engage in more destructive behavior than the Klan ever did to us. However, the only point Whitlock misses is that Taylor actually tried to turn his life around and get away from those "unsavory characters." But, he's absolutely right about the "Black KKK." I can relate to being ridiculed for speaking "proper English" and "embracing education."

It reminds me of one of my all-time favorite rap songs, which came out in the early '90s -- when rap wasn't so raunchy. It's called "Self-Destruction" and you should download it some time because it still holds true today. As part of the lyrics go:

Back in the sixties our brothers and sisters were hanged

How could you gang bang?

I never ever ran from the Ku Klux Klan

and I shouldn't have to run from a black man cause that's

Self Destruction, ya headed for Self Destruction

Self Destruction, ya headed for Self Destruction

I don't think my issue is so much with what Whitlock says but rather how he has turned this type of article into a cottage industry of sorts. Also, he paints with the largest possible brush.

Jemele Hill wrote a similar article on ESPN but it avoided the stereotypes and slander than Whitlock now specializes in.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

and Whitlock is a the biggest clown in the media who only tries to play on stereotypes to write articles...

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Everything Whitlock says in this article -- and other articles -- is true about what we as blacks are doing to ourselves. We engage in more destructive behavior than the Klan ever did to us. However, the only point Whitlock misses is that Taylor actually tried to turn his life around and get away from those "unsavory characters." But, he's absolutely right about the "Black KKK." I can relate to being ridiculed for speaking "proper English" and "embracing education."

It reminds me of one of my all-time favorite rap songs, which came out in the early '90s -- when rap wasn't so raunchy. It's called "Self-Destruction" and you should download it some time because it still holds true today. As part of the lyrics go:

Back in the sixties our brothers and sisters were hanged

How could you gang bang?

I never ever ran from the Ku Klux Klan

and I shouldn't have to run from a black man cause that's

Self Destruction, ya headed for Self Destruction

Self Destruction, ya headed for Self Destruction

Self Destruction came out in 1988... KRS One got the inspiration after his DJ Scott La Rock was murdered...

and rap was raunchy back then, it just was not popular... Schooly D, KRS One's first album, I can go on..

as for what I bolded... all black people are going through that? do you really believe that? if you do, I feel for you... the same thing that Whitlock is spewing is the same issue for all hte poor in America... its just that it is important to put a black face on it so that all my people can now live with that burden... its BS.... and whitlock knows it but he wants to be a shock journalist now, instead of writing real articles