Tommy-the-Greek Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 I can't believe he only got 15 years. He was a accomplice in the murder of over 3000 people and the Germans only give him 15 years? What a F'in crock. He should be extradited to the US and stand trial here. He wouldn't be smilin then. 15 years for 9/11 conspirator Wednesday, February 19, 2003 Posted: 8:15 AM EST (1315 GMT) El Motassadeq said he took weapons training in Afghanistan because all Muslims should learn to shoot. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Story Tools -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RELATED • Profile: Mounir el Motassadeq SPECIAL REPORT • Interactive: The Hunt for al Qaeda • Interactive: Terror investigation • Terror warning system • In-Depth: Terror on tape HAMBURG, Germany -- A German court has jailed a Moroccan man for 15 years after convicting him of aiding the September 11 suicide hijackers in the first trial anywhere of a suspected attack conspirator. Mounir el Motassadeq, a 28-year-old electrical engineering student, was found guilty of being an accessory to 3,045 murders in New York and Washington and being a member of a terrorist organisation. CNN's Matthew Chance said the 15-year sentence was the maximum the court could impose under German law. Much of the evidence was cirumstantial and he was convicted by association with other al Qaeda members and not by direct evidence, Chance said. In addition to the 3,045 counts of accessory to murder, he was convicted of five counts of attempted murder and bodily injury. Prosecutors alleged he provided logistical support for the Hamburg al Qaeda cell that included lead hijacker Mohamed Atta, who piloted one of the two airliners that crashed into the World Trade Center. Police blocked off the street in front of the Hamburg courthouse on Wednesday morning as dozens of journalists queued for tight security screening to enter the building. El Motassadeq consistently denied the charges during his three-and-a-half-month trial and his lawyers were seeking an acquittal from the five-judge panel. During the trial the defendant acknowledged he knew the six other alleged members of the Hamburg cell -- Atta plus two other pilots of the airliners, Ziad Jarrah and Marwan al-Shehhi; and logisticians Ramzi Binalshibh, Said Bahaji and Zakariya Essabar. El Motassadeq admits knowing the alleged leader of the al Qaeda plot, Mohamed Atta. Of Atta, the Moroccan told CNN shortly before his arrest in the fall of 2001: "We visited each other, talked like normal friends." But he said he knew nothing of the plans for September 11. "I couldn't believe that people I knew could do something like that," el Motassadeq said in his closing statement last week. "I watched it on television and I was shocked ... I can only hope that something like September 11 never happens again." But witnesses testified that el Motassadeq, a slight, bearded man, was as radical as the rest of the group, talking of jihad -- holy war -- and his hatred of Israel and the United States. The defendant himself admitted training in a camp run by Osama bin Laden -- the al Qaeda chief alleged by the U.S. to be the mastermind of the September 11 attacks -- in Afghanistan in 2000. Prosecutors alleged el Motassadeq used his power of attorney over al-Shehhi's bank account to pay rent, tuition and utility bills, allowing the plotters to keep up the appearance of being normal students in Germany. El Motassadeq argued he was simply providing an innocent service to friends and that he took weapons training in Afghanistan because he believed all Muslims should learn to shoot. The defence tried several times unsuccessfully to obtain testimony by two of el Motassadeq's friends, Ramzi Binalshibh and Mohammed Haydar Zammar -- a lack of evidence that the lawyers say could be grounds for an appeal in case of a guilty verdict. Prosecutors allege el Motassadeq provided logistical support for the World Trade Center attacks. Binalshibh, a Yemeni suspect in U.S. custody, is believed to have been the Hamburg cell's key contact with al Qaeda. Zammar, an alleged al Qaeda recruiter in Hamburg, is in prison in Syria. The court failed to get the men released to testify and German authorities refused to turn over their files on the two, saying transcripts of their interrogations were provided to them on condition they only be used for intelligence purposes. Motassadeq, a member of a middle-class family, came to Germany in 1993 to study. By 1995, he was studying electrical engineering in Hamburg, where he is believed to have first met Atta no later than the following year. Lawyers representing Americans who lost family members on September 11 had said they would appeal if el Motassadeq did not receive close to the maximum sentence. Family members are allowed to be co-plaintiffs under German law. Family members of American victims became co-plaintiffs and testified in court, including Stephen Push, who lost his his wife in the September 11 attack on New York. "One of the most disturbing things about the case was the discovery that the German authorities knew much about this al Qaeda cell years prior to the September 11 attack," he told CNN. "Just like the authorities in the United States -- the FBI and CIA -- they were aware of some of these individuals, have been tracking them and yet were not able to connect the dots, were not able to use that information to prevent the attacks." -- CNN Berlin Bureau Chief Stephanie Halasz contributed to this report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 I tried to edit a misspelled word in the title and it wouldn't change it? I spelled * trial * wrong and went to edit it and it changed it on my pc screen but then I went back to look at it. It didn't change it in the directory. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Sounds like German law needs a little work. I appreciate that they gave him the max allowable on perhaps a flimsy legal case, but they don't seem to see any difference in accessory to one murder and accessory to over 3000. Maybe we should have someone waiting for Mr. Motassadeq when he's released in 15 years (probably less). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 F#CK the french and F#CK the germans. I say send a CIA hit squad to wait for him and take him out the moment he walks out of prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 this is the reason we ought to categorize all of these ****ers as 'enemy combatants' and lock them up at Gitmo for the rest of their lives. 15 years..he'll spend about the same amount of time in prison as the Mrs. Harris of 'my husband is a speed bump' fame. And I thought she got off light. We ought to cap his *** as he steps out of prison 15 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 Why wait 15 years? We should pay some guy in the German prison to do it. Give the money to the guy's family and put some in a swiss account for him when he gets out if he kills Motassadeq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Looks like it's unanimous. 4 for 4 so far. Take this fool out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Im pretty sure my feelings on this are easy to figure out. 5 for 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 I want to know why the German system of law only has a max sentence of 15 years for his crime? I know I am a bit to close emotionally to this case. I think most Americans are, but I am trying to seperate that emotion from the crime.How can any rational human being think that 15 years is a just punishment for such a heinous act? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Objectively speaking, I don't think we're in a position to pass judgement on Germany's judicial system when our own system allowed O.J. to walk away an innocent man despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief skin Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 YES the OJ circus was a blemish on the American Judicial system but, these cowardly terrorists b@stards have to be dealt with. Tell the German cowards we want this pig extradited NOW!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Great point Kurp. Let him serve his time and when it's time to get out, let's make sure there are crosshairs on his skull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted February 20, 2003 Author Share Posted February 20, 2003 Originally posted by TheKurp Objectively speaking, I don't think we're in a position to pass judgement on Germany's judicial system when our own system allowed O.J. to walk away an innocent man despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary. Kurp your wrong. The jury in the OJ case could have given him the death penalty for his actions if the DA wanted to go that route. That was the max penalty for his crime. The DA decided not to go for the max penalty, but the max penalty was death. The Jury decided he wasn't guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. You are confusing the actual jury verdict with the maximum penalty. In this case the max penalty was 15 years. WHY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Originally posted by tommy-the-greek Kurp your wrong. The jury in the OJ case could have given him the death penalty for his actions if the DA wanted to go that route. That was the max penalty for his crime. The DA decided not to go for the max penalty, but the max penalty was death. The Jury decided he wasn't guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. You are confusing the actual jury verdict with the maximum penalty. In this case the max penalty was 15 years. WHY? TTG, I don't think it's appropriate to say I'm "wrong". Your perspective on what I've said though is aptly noted. My statement was meant to characterize our judicial system as a whole. In other words, the German judicial system convicted someone and sentenced them to 15 years based on "flimsy" and circumstantial evidence. Our judicial system declared someone innocent when the evidence presented was far more damning and indicative of guilt. That's where we're in no position to criticize the German judicial system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 don't really care. i just want these guys taken out of circulation one at a time so we can move on to the next one. i'm tired of wondering every time I board the metro if it will be the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 My whole point was how can they have a 15 year max? You instantly turn it into people in glass houses argument. That is BS. Given Germany's past history of conspiracy to commit millions of murders in WWII. How can this country have a 15 year maximum for commiting this crime. That is my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Originally posted by tommy-the-greek My whole point was how can they have a 15 year max? You instantly turn it into people in glass houses argument. That is BS. BS? Okay, let me spell it out for you. If the trial were held here in the U.S., chances are the man would have walked. So pick your poison or quit your ****in'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted February 22, 2003 Author Share Posted February 22, 2003 If the trial were held here the DA. would have the *CHOICE* to seek the death penalty, a life sentence, or 30 years without parole. Now whether he would have been convicted here is another argument/ debate altogether. You never answered my question. WHY is the max penalty so mild? Now if you want to debate your topic if you answer my question I would enjoy that immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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