88Comrade2000 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Tonny Blair may support us, but the rest of the British population doesn't. Blair will be forced from power and Germany and France will have another country on their side. US will have to fight this one on it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Well, I disagree with you on that one. I've talked to a couple of Brits and they tell me while a vast majority of the population doesn't agree with Blair on the War they like him overall and he still holds a lot of power in the Labour party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 nice animation!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 the Brits actually do remember their friends....be it WWII or the Falklands..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 A friend sent me this from the UK Daily Mirror. No matter what your views on President Bush's statement of upcoming war, this, from an English journalist, is very interesting. Just a word of background, for those of you who aren't familiar with the UK's Daily Mirror. This is a notoriously left-wing daily that is normally not supportive of the Colonials across the Atlantic. ************************************************************ Tony Parsons Daily Mirror September 11, 2002 One year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting -- the mass murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty of the human race, September 11 was up there with Pol Pot's M! ountain of Skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps. An unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely the world could agree on one thing - nobody deserves this fate. Surely there could be consensus: The victims were truly innocent, the perpetrators truly evil. But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's comeuppance. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year. There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country; too loud, too rich, too full of themselves, and s! o much happier than Europeans - but it has become an epidemic. And it seems incredible to me. More than that, it turns my stomach. America is this country's greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language and blood. A little over half a century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? And exactly a year ago, thousands of ordinary men, women and children - not just Americans, but from dozens of countries, were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray them? What touched the heart about those who died in the Twin Towers an! d on the planes, was that we recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's son and somebody's daughter, husbands, wives, and children, some unborn. And these people brought it on themselves? Their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter? These days you don't have to be some dust-encrusted nut job in Kabul or Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan. The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission. The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September 11. Remember, remember - Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were burned alive. Remember those people leaping to their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers. Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive. Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum. Remember, remember - And realize that America has never retaliated for 9/11 in anything like the way it could have. So a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked without a trial in Camp X-ray? Pass the Kleenex... So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semi-automatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti. AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it didn't is a sign of strength. American voices are already being raised against attacking Iraq - that's what a democracy is for. How many in the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder ! of 9/11 was an abomination? When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street. America watched all of that - and didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism." A real war. The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of hell," if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like you wouldn't believe. The US is the most militarily powerful nation that ever strode the face of the earth. The campaign in Afghanistan may have been less than perfect and the planned war on Iraq may be misconceived. But don't blame America for not bringing peace and light to these wretched countries. How many democracies are there in the Middle East, or in the Muslim world? You can count them on the fingers of one hand - assuming you haven't had any chopped off for minor shoplifting. I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle. But I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh. Above all, America is hated because it is what every country wants to be - rich, free, strong, open, optimistic. Not ground down by the past, or religion, or some caste system. America is the best friend this country ever had and we should start remembering that. Or do you really think the USA is the root of all evil? Tell it to the loved ones of the men and women who leaped to their death from the burning towers. Tell it to the nursing mothers whose! husbands died on one of the hijacked planes, or were ripped apart in a collapsing skyscraper. And tell it to the hundreds of young widows whose husbands worked for the New York Fire Department. To our shame, George Bush gets a worse press than Saddam Hussein. Once we were told that Saddam gassed the Kurds, tortured his own people and set up rape-camps in Kuwait. Now we are told he likes Quality Street. Save me the orange center, Oh Mighty One! Remember, remember, September 11 - One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against America. No, do more than remember. Never forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Tarhog, I'd seen that one before, but I NEVER get tired of reading it!:notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleSteve Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Thanks, Tarhog. That gives me some hope for the rest of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Rdskns2000 Your information is as bad as your spelling. I thought you were refering to me with your title 'I wouldn't count on Brit ian'. :laugh: Yes, Tony Blair is not exactly popular with his pro war stance but no-one is going to force him from power. Who exactly would take his place or have the wherewithal to force him from power? We don't have elections every four years as such but no-one expects Tony Blair to call one for the next two or even three years. So now is a good time to be unpopular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleSteve Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Originally posted by Ian Yes, Tony Blair is not exactly popular with his pro war stance but no-one is going to force him from power. Who exactly would take his place or have the wherewithal to force him from power? We don't have elections every four years as such but no-one expects Tony Blair to call one for the next two or even three years. So now is a good time to be unpopular. How unpopular is he? Is there a large, "silent" majority? Or are the polls correct? If the British people really believe that the US is more of a threat to the world than Saddam Hussein, are they getting the real story? I've never been to Britain, but have nothing but respect for the people and government of the UK. Have the people become as blinded by anti-Americanism as it appears from here? Would they be reacting the same way if Buckingham Palace had been destroyed by hijacked planes? What is the unbiased truth from our brothers in the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Blazers 21, you need to have perspective. Perspective is everything in this. You also need to stop putting two and two together from your perspective and getting the proverbial 5 or at least not 4. The British people (and there are about 60 million of us, so I don't actually speak with any authority on the majority view just my own) do not have an anti-american view, they just don't see the point of war. My view is that Saddam is being set up to fall because America or more precisely George Bush has a) some unfinished business his father left behind some evidence of a supposed threat C) because Osama has gone AWOL and D) the old 'anti-capitalist' chestnut, there's Oil and a free Iraq could free up easier access to that oilfield in the desert. That isn't anti-americanism, its anti-war, its anti-posturing for war. Anyone could have told you the British response to Bush's targeting of Saddam, Outright Support, back you to the hilt. Its so predictable, its almost off putting. The British government seems not to think, blind loyalty. We have a so called special relationship with the USA but this should not require blind loyalty. Tony Blair will continue to publically back George Bush and be criticised for it because politically that's what happens. This particular crisis seems somewhat elongated by the UN adherence bit but Margaret Thatcher was similarly criticised for our part in the Libya bombing. It is not anti-americanism per se, it is how the British makes sense of things. And Blazers 21, calm down, what does unbiased truth mean? Coming from someone who would evoke the memories of 9/11 and transplant them to a British landmark for reaction, it hardly seems fair of you then to ask for unbiased truth from your brothers in the UK. Perspective equates to bias. The British will always support America. Let me tell if Tony Blair says we are going to join the Euro, then he would be unpopular and the same word 'unpopular' would have far more meaning and be personalised by far more British people than his pro war stance. I hope you get what I mean but it may have been lost and its late here and I'm going to bed. bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 it's not blind loyalty...there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that none of you are privy to....don't make assumptions you can't support.....and especially blanket statements that gloss over the actual mechanics of how these things are vetted, coordinated, etc., etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 17, 2003 Author Share Posted February 17, 2003 Originally posted by Ian Rdskns2000 Your information is as bad as your spelling. I thought you were refering to me with your title 'I wouldn't count on Brit ian'. :laugh: Yes, Tony Blair is not exactly popular with his pro war stance but no-one is going to force him from power. Who exactly would take his place or have the wherewithal to force him from power? We don't have elections every four years as such but no-one expects Tony Blair to call one for the next two or even three years. So now is a good time to be unpopular. What's is this thing called speling? I never spell check. I saw something on one of the new channels that the Labour party is really against Blair's stance and they could force the issue where he effectively losses power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Originally posted by Rdskns2000 I saw something on one of the new channels ... Not exactly a rock-solid source, you must admit. You'll understand if I take the word of an actual Englishman (see Ian ... no "European" ) over "something" on a "new channel." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleSteve Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Ian, Most of what we get from the news media over here is how bad America is and how the rest of the world hates us. That's what I meant by unbiased. We get a left-wing, liberal view of what the rest of the world thinks. Considering the force for good this country has represent for the last 60+ years, this is unfathomable to me. If we cancelled our foreign aid, millions of people the world over would be negatively affected, yet we are still bashed by our own and foreign media. If a disaster happens anywhere in the world, who is there first with aid? The US. So, Ian, I asked you for an unbiased view and you seem to have given me one. I have no problem with those protesting for peace, so long as they realize that they don't have the moral high ground in the Iraq issue. It's not as simple as that. You also can't dismiss our feelings concerning 9/11. Under Reagan, such an attack might have led to a nuclear response. Libya, Iran, Iraq would no longer be functioning countries. Our current president has shown much restraint. I was not trying to elict as response from you, but was making the point that the UK public might have a different viewpoint if Britain had been attacked. We certainly appreciate the support of the British government, as well as other governments around the world. I hope it doesn't come to war, but if Iraq refuses to disarm, it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Good article, Tarhog. Amazing, considering the source actually. That is definately a left wing rag, little better the National Enquirer here. Been that way since I was there is 85-89. I have to imagine that a lot of the protestors in England are probably composed of Middle Eastern immigrants that have been allowed to flood England and most of Europe in the past few years as well. We would do well to look at what has happened in those countres due to unrestriced immigration and learn a few lesson ourselves, before it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Does anyone have any national poll numbers from Britain, I could swear I heard it was about 50/50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riggins44 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Don't know about any polls, but in talking with some British friends they are in full support of our nation. They all remember that we fought in WWII. They give us credit for helping stop Hitler. The Brits and Americans are great allies. We can count on them and they can count on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 why isn't anyone other than David Horowitz examiningwho is organizing/coordinating these protests? guarantee you learn some interesting things..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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