HouseBowlrz Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 This is interesting ... http://tinyurl.com/3x7avu BOSTON -- The New England Patriots have won a bid to get the names of all the fans who bought or sold -- or tried to buy or sell -- tickets to home games through online ticket reseller StubHub Inc., a move one technology group sees as an invasion of privacy. In a lawsuit against San Francisco-based StubHub, a subsidiary of eBay Inc., claiming that the Web site encourages fans to break state law and violate team policies, the Patriots said they could seek to revoke season tickets of people who use StubHub. A lawyer for the Patriots wouldn't say what the team plans to do with the 13,000 names, which StubHub gave it last week after losing its appeal of a Massachusetts state court ruling. Team rules bar reselling game tickets for a profit. State law, though rarely enforced, restricts ticket markups to $2 above face value plus some service charges. Patriots tickets have been offered on StubHub at prices many times higher, including two 50-yard-line seats for New England's Dec. 16 game against the AFC rival New York Jets listed Thursday for $1,300.05 each. Their face value is $125. The Center for Democracy and Technology, a Washington D.C.-based advocacy group, said the court order to turn over the names infringes on the privacy rights of Patriots fans. "The Patriots, just at the beginning of the season, were filming opposing teams and accused of surveillance and given a slap from the National Football League about that. Now they're turning the cameras on their fans, so clearly there is a lack of understanding about what privacy is," said Ari Schwartz, deputy director of the center. StubHub parent eBay is a member of the center's working group on free speech online. StubHub, one of the largest online ticket sellers, argued that the Patriots' request violated its confidentiality agreement with its customers and said the team wants to create a monopoly on the resale market for its own tickets. "It is plain that the Patriots seek this highly confidential customer information to further their unlawful, anticompetitive campaign against StubHub and its customers," StubHub said in court papers. The Patriots, who say they are trying to ensure fans get tickets at reasonable prices, are entitled to know who may be violating their rules. "One of our claims against StubHub is that knowing we have rules against resale on the Internet, they are out there soliciting people to violate our rules," said Daniel Goldberg, a lawyer for the team. "In order to pursue that claim, we need to understand who has been persuaded by that inducement to list their tickets [on StubHub]." Goldberg said the Patriots' rules on resale are clear and printed on the back of every ticket. "We have hundreds of people on waiting lists willing to comply with our rules, so if individuals prefer not to comply with the rules, that's their choice," he said. Goldberg would not say how the Patriots plan to use the customer information it won in court. In his order this summer, Superior Court Judge Allan van Gestel said the Patriots have "legitimate interests" in knowing the identity of people who resell tickets through StubHub. The judge said the Patriots could use the information for purposes beyond the lawsuit, including canceling violators' season tickets or reporting violators to authorities. Goldberg said StubHub turned over the names last week. The Patriots have revoked tickets of fans who resell on any site except the Patriots' own TeamExchange Web site, which limits sales to face value. That Web site is run by Ticketmaster. Tony Troilo, a season-ticket holder from Mansfield, said he appreciates the Patriots' efforts to protect its fans by strictly enforcing its rules against ticket scalping. "But on the flip side of that, I think there are probably a lot of good, loyal fans who for whatever reason can't make it to a game and obviously don't want to eat the ticket," Troilo said. "It seems like it shouldn't be a crime for them to go on StubHub.com." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyRules Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Finally, a team with some gonads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskinsgo2007 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I doubt if the Skins would ever do this. Why would they ever care about season ticket holders? They've already got our money! Since they are partners with stub hub, they get a cut on every subsequent transaction. Any attempts to stifle the exchange of tickets on StubHub would only hurt the Skins in long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHADES Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 you shouldnt be able to make more than a couple of bucks on your season tickets at resale. WTF, thats not what season tickets are for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskinsgo2007 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 you shouldnt be able to make more than a couple of bucks on your season tickets at resale.WTF, thats not what season tickets are for You're right in a perfect world. Everyone would keep their tickets and use them personally. But let's say you're a long time season ticket holder with LL seats on the 50. You suddenly find out you can't go to the Cowboys game so do you sell at face -- no way! You'll put them out there and sell them for whatever the market will bear (unless you have a friend to give them to or something like that). I don't think that's being greedy if you have a valuable asset that everyone wants and is willing to pay a premium for. Sucks to be on the other side of that equation but that's life whether its Redskins tickets, cars or houses. Interestingly there are several states that have laws as to how much markup can be put on tickets. MD is not one but PA is. That might be a more "fan friendly" solution than having the teams themselves getting involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseBowlrz Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 You're right in a perfect world. Everyone would keep their tickets and use them personally.But let's say you're a long time season ticket holder with LL seats on the 50. You suddenly find out you can't go to the Cowboys game so do you sell at face -- no way! You'll put them out there and sell them for whatever the market will bear (unless you have a friend to give them to or something like that). I don't think that's being greedy if you have a valuable asset that everyone wants and is willing to pay a premium for. ... which, unfortunately, leads to fans of the other team in our house. They are willing to pay said premium which, in turn, makes them think they have the right to do anything they want, including starting fights in the stands. Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying that all those fans of the opposing team are like that. My years in upper level saw way too many fights when the Eagles and Cowboys came to town. my 0.02 ... cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 You're right in a perfect world. Everyone would keep their tickets and use them personally.But let's say you're a long time season ticket holder with LL seats on the 50. You suddenly find out you can't go to the Cowboys game so do you sell at face -- no way! You'll put them out there and sell them for whatever the market will bear (unless you have a friend to give them to or something like that). I don't think that's being greedy if you have a valuable asset that everyone wants and is willing to pay a premium for. Sucks to be on the other side of that equation but that's life whether its Redskins tickets, cars or houses. Interestingly there are several states that have laws as to how much markup can be put on tickets. MD is not one but PA is. That might be a more "fan friendly" solution than having the teams themselves getting involved. Not this fan. I would sell them for face value, to a fellow Skins fan. I'd give them away or burn the damn things, before selling them to a Cowboys fan. If I was that hard up for money, then I probably shouldn't have season tickets..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Taylor Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I doubt if the Skins would ever do this. Why would they ever care about season ticket holders? They've already got our money! Since they are partners with stub hub, they get a cut on every subsequent transaction. Any attempts to stifle the exchange of tickets on StubHub would only hurt the Skins in long run. Unless they need some more Tailgate Club seats. Who's to stop them from cherry-picking prime seats from ticketholders who violate ticket policy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dondrae474 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 The Pats have always argued that Stubhub did not have the right to sell Pats tickets and that the Patriots themselves were the only authorized seller of tickets. The Skins have designated StubHub as their authorized ticket reseller so the Skins would not take the same action as the Pats have. Go SKins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskinsgo2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Unless they need some more Tailgate Club seats. Who's to stop them from cherry-picking prime seats from ticketholders who violate ticket policy? Wow, that would be unbelievably evil of them to get paid TWICE for the same seat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCCOP Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Not this fan. I would sell them for face value, to a fellow Skins fan. I'd give them away or burn the damn things, before selling them to a Cowboys fan. If I was that hard up for money, then I probably shouldn't have season tickets..... YOU ARE THE MAN... You guys can call me crazy but I sell mine at face value as well. I will only sell them to my friends that I know are SKINS FANS and if they don't want them I eat them. I'm not putting cowgirl fans in my section to sit around my friends just because I could not make the game. That's just me. I like the other folks that I sit around to much to do that to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCCOP Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Not this fan. I would sell them for face value, to a fellow Skins fan. I'd give them away or burn the damn things, before selling them to a Cowboys fan. If I was that hard up for money, then I probably shouldn't have season tickets..... YOU ARE THE MAN... You guys can call me crazy but I sell mine at face value as well. I will only sell them to my friends that I know are SKINS FANS and if they don't want them I eat them. I'm not putting cowgirl fans in my section to sit around my friends just because I could not make the game. That's just me. I like the other folks that I sit around to much to do that to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Good for the Pats. Stubhub is way too expensive and a horrible way to get tickets. You can do much better on ebay, craigslist, or even this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Good for the Pats. Stubhub is way too expensive and a horrible way to get tickets. You can do much better on ebay, craigslist, or even this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dondrae474 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Well said everyone. Eat the cost instead of selling them to fans of the opposing teams. As someone being eligible for season tickets next year I pledge to do the same for tickets that I cannot get rid of (should I be awarded tickets and have to miss a game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dondrae474 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Well said everyone. Eat the cost instead of selling them to fans of the opposing teams. As someone being eligible for season tickets next year I pledge to do the same for tickets that I cannot get rid of (should I be awarded tickets and have to miss a game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 YOU ARE THE MAN... You guys can call me crazy but I sell mine at face value as well. I will only sell them to my friends that I know are SKINS FANS and if they don't want them I eat them. I'm not putting cowgirl fans in my section to sit around my friends just because I could not make the game. That's just me. I like the other folks that I sit around to much to do that to them. Well said everyone. Eat the cost instead of selling them to fans of the opposing teams. As someone being eligible for season tickets next year I pledge to do the same for tickets that I cannot get rid of (should I be awarded tickets and have to miss a game). Damn right! My father-in-law is a Pokes fan, and I have never, (nor will I ever), take him to a Dallas game! And to add insult to injury, I think I'll nail his daughter tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 YOU ARE THE MAN... You guys can call me crazy but I sell mine at face value as well. I will only sell them to my friends that I know are SKINS FANS and if they don't want them I eat them. I'm not putting cowgirl fans in my section to sit around my friends just because I could not make the game. That's just me. I like the other folks that I sit around to much to do that to them. Well said everyone. Eat the cost instead of selling them to fans of the opposing teams. As someone being eligible for season tickets next year I pledge to do the same for tickets that I cannot get rid of (should I be awarded tickets and have to miss a game). Damn right! My father-in-law is a Pokes fan, and I have never, (nor will I ever), take him to a Dallas game! And to add insult to injury, I think I'll nail his daughter tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskinsgo2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 I agree giving them to a buddy who is a fan is the best way to go, but failing that, I disagree with anyone who says posting them for sale at a higher price than face makes you disloyal to the Skins or their fans by inviting people supporting the "other team" to invade Fedex. Sure, SH/EB ensures you have no clue who gets the tickets -- you may end up selling them to some pin head who comes in and is a total jerk (Skins or opponent) or a guy who comes in and really makes the game fun (SKins or opponent). Not all opposition fans are jerks and not all Redskins fans are angels. The only way to be sure who will be there is to give them to someone you know but I don't think the other path is necessarily doomed to failure. Skins fans shop SH just as much as opposing fans do. There are Redskins fans all over the world who would like tickets and may not have access to the close "network" of Skins fans that people here may know. Stub Hub (and others like it) gives them access to tickets that they would not originarily have. Yes, ES and CL are probably cheaper, but folks may be willing to pay the premium on SH to KNOW FOR SURE that they will get what they paid for. The last point that someone made is about anyone who sells their tickets to make a buck "probably could not have afforded season tickets in the first place" (or something along those lines). Oh please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskinsgo2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 I agree giving them to a buddy who is a fan is the best way to go, but failing that, I disagree with anyone who says posting them for sale at a higher price than face makes you disloyal to the Skins or their fans by inviting people supporting the "other team" to invade Fedex. Sure, SH/EB ensures you have no clue who gets the tickets -- you may end up selling them to some pin head who comes in and is a total jerk (Skins or opponent) or a guy who comes in and really makes the game fun (SKins or opponent). Not all opposition fans are jerks and not all Redskins fans are angels. The only way to be sure who will be there is to give them to someone you know but I don't think the other path is necessarily doomed to failure. Skins fans shop SH just as much as opposing fans do. There are Redskins fans all over the world who would like tickets and may not have access to the close "network" of Skins fans that people here may know. Stub Hub (and others like it) gives them access to tickets that they would not originarily have. Yes, ES and CL are probably cheaper, but folks may be willing to pay the premium on SH to KNOW FOR SURE that they will get what they paid for. The last point that someone made is about anyone who sells their tickets to make a buck "probably could not have afforded season tickets in the first place" (or something along those lines). Oh please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Not this fan. I would sell them for face value, to a fellow Skins fan. I'd give them away or burn the damn things, before selling them to a Cowboys fan. If I was that hard up for money, then I probably shouldn't have season tickets..... I I disagree with anyone who says posting them for sale at a higher price than face makes you disloyal to the Skins or their fans by inviting people supporting the "other team" to invade Fedex. The last point that someone made is about anyone who sells their tickets to make a buck "probably could not have afforded season tickets in the first place" (or something along those lines). Oh please. Posting them for sale, above face value on a Skins board is bush league. Jacking up the price and selling them to a fellow Skins fan, by any means, is wrong. Selling them to an opposing fan is wrong. Selling them to an NFC opponent is reprehensible. As for the statement about the affordability of season tickets? Try reading the original post. It doesn't state "anyone who sells their tickets to make a buck...." I made a statement concerning my own situation. But, if the shoe fits........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Not this fan. I would sell them for face value, to a fellow Skins fan. I'd give them away or burn the damn things, before selling them to a Cowboys fan. If I was that hard up for money, then I probably shouldn't have season tickets..... I I disagree with anyone who says posting them for sale at a higher price than face makes you disloyal to the Skins or their fans by inviting people supporting the "other team" to invade Fedex. The last point that someone made is about anyone who sells their tickets to make a buck "probably could not have afforded season tickets in the first place" (or something along those lines). Oh please. Posting them for sale, above face value on a Skins board is bush league. Jacking up the price and selling them to a fellow Skins fan, by any means, is wrong. Selling them to an opposing fan is wrong. Selling them to an NFC opponent is reprehensible. As for the statement about the affordability of season tickets? Try reading the original post. It doesn't state "anyone who sells their tickets to make a buck...." I made a statement concerning my own situation. But, if the shoe fits........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskinsgo2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Posting them for sale, above face value on a Skins board is bush league.Jacking up the price and selling them to a fellow Skins fan, by any means, is wrong. Selling them to an opposing fan is wrong. Selling them to an NFC opponent is reprehensible. As for the statement about the affordability of season tickets? Try reading the original post. It doesn't state "anyone who sells their tickets to make a buck...." I made a statement concerning my own situation. But, if the shoe fits........ OK, I saw the "I" but I thought you were making a statement about others as well. My mistake. BTW, the shoe doesn't fit but thanks for your concern... Honestly, I think everyone is taking things too seriously about tickets. Wrong? Reprehensible? Look, I'm as big a fan as anybody but why are Redskins tickets any different than homes or Corvettes? Would you sell a beautiful Corvette only at cost just so another Corvette lover would get it? Ironically, I would think a true Corvette lover would understand the value of the Corvette more than anybody and as such, be willing to pay MORE for it. Every place has its own protocol and I understand that ES does things differently than EB or SH so I know now not to sell marked up tickets here. Frankly I've been amazed at the generosity of some folks here on this site! I'm relatively new to ES so I will be curious to see how many face value (or below) tickets change hands on ES for the Cowboys game, especially if the game is pretty hot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskinsgo2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Posting them for sale, above face value on a Skins board is bush league.Jacking up the price and selling them to a fellow Skins fan, by any means, is wrong. Selling them to an opposing fan is wrong. Selling them to an NFC opponent is reprehensible. As for the statement about the affordability of season tickets? Try reading the original post. It doesn't state "anyone who sells their tickets to make a buck...." I made a statement concerning my own situation. But, if the shoe fits........ OK, I saw the "I" but I thought you were making a statement about others as well. My mistake. BTW, the shoe doesn't fit but thanks for your concern... Honestly, I think everyone is taking things too seriously about tickets. Wrong? Reprehensible? Look, I'm as big a fan as anybody but why are Redskins tickets any different than homes or Corvettes? Would you sell a beautiful Corvette only at cost just so another Corvette lover would get it? Ironically, I would think a true Corvette lover would understand the value of the Corvette more than anybody and as such, be willing to pay MORE for it. Every place has its own protocol and I understand that ES does things differently than EB or SH so I know now not to sell marked up tickets here. Frankly I've been amazed at the generosity of some folks here on this site! I'm relatively new to ES so I will be curious to see how many face value (or below) tickets change hands on ES for the Cowboys game, especially if the game is pretty hot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 I believe that this whole Stubhub investigation w/the Pats is merely a ploy to revoke the accounts of longtime GAs who happen to hold seats in prime locations, I.E. lower level midfield. I doubt that Kraft gives a rats tail about people reselling premium and upper deck seating. It was similar here when Danny got mad at the Post and revoked their seating accounts which happened to be prime, lower level midfield seats they'd had since Griffith Stadium. Notice how the TD Club was formed shortly there after? No proof, I'm just sayin'. I doubt that the Redskins TO cares what you do w/ your upper deck and premium seating when you consider the fact that they have trouble selling those seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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