DeanCollins Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 That's fine, Dean. You don't have to choose to agree with my morals. You're in the vast majority in not agreeing with me. Which is exactly why I believe that probably 99.9999% of humanity has absolutely no value.Somebody else mentioned the micro-level of individual value. Personally I could probably count the number of individuals I place any value in without hitting the number 50. I wouldn't say that, I'll bet that we'd be in agreement on most issues of morality. Problem is that this is a democracy that we've "bought into" merely by deciding to stay in this country of origin. With the said the governing of said "morals", which is probably a mistake, has to er towards what's best for the morjority which unfortunately for you (and me) my friend means that it can't be a perfect society. So when I inserted "MY" in your post, if I'm in agreement with you on most, then those are my "MYs" too. Thus I'm accepting your correct opinion of the lack of morals. It's unaccecptable to me as well, only I've also accepted that I can't change it and I have to have a life so I can only be responsible for MY actions. Now, why do you think that I'm building a home on a mountain 10 miles outside of a small town in the bible belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 From a moral/philosophical stand point, I don't think you can put a value on human life. From a practical stand point, I've always felt the goverment should put an exact dollar figure on a life (e.g. if a doctor is neglient and a baby dies, this is the maximium amount of money that you can get. Under on circumstances should you be able to get more than that). In terms of the Iraq war (and any war), the question to really ask is 'are more lives being saved as a result of the war, then if the war did not occur?'). At this time, I find it difficult to make the arguement this is true (I voted for Bush the first time), especially when you take into account the big picture (e.g. more troops in Iraq means less boots on the ground in Afaghanistan). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 What's the issue at the heart of the actual turmoil? I know there are a LOT of potential reasons surrounding the war. Which is bothering you? Probably what the majority of everyone else's inner turmoil is when people die for nothing when they didn't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxskinsville Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Apparently a lot more value than God does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Dude Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 In my opinion, human life without hope, love, passion and happiness, is totally useless. With most or all of these, it's the most precious thing in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 Apparently a lot more value than God does.Couldn't resist could you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I wouldn't say that, I'll bet that we'd be in agreement on most issues of morality. Problem is that this is a democracy that we've "bought into" merely by deciding to stay in this country of origin. With the said the governing of said "morals", which is probably a mistake, has to er towards what's best for the morjority which unfortunately for you (and me) my friend means that it can't be a perfect society. I'm not so sure you'd agree with the extreme positions I believe in on many of those moral issues. The problem, as I see it, is that we've moved AWAY FROM the morals that the Founding Fathers attempted to put in place when they started this country. By accepting something that is nowhere near a "perfect" society we take the ills of that society on ourselves, and the entire human race. So when I inserted "MY" in your post, if I'm in agreement with you on most, then those are my "MYs" too. Thus I'm accepting your correct opinion of the lack of morals. It's unaccecptable to me as well, only I've also accepted that I can't change it and I have to have a life so I can only be responsible for MY actions. Now, why do you think that I'm building a home on a mountain 10 miles outside of a small town in the bible belt? While it is true that the only person whose actual beliefs and actions we can control is our own, there are other ways that we can work towards that "perfect" society.... by not voting for people who don't accept our moral standards, by not socializing with people who don't accept our morals, and by not allowing our families to do so either. While the compound concept is great for you and your family, it doesn't deal with the larger problem, which WILL eventually come home to destroy us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 What is the unit of measurment for this value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 What is the unit of measurment for this value?Its subjective. :obvious: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanCollins Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 While it is true that the only person whose actual beliefs and actions we can control is our own, there are other ways that we can work towards that "perfect" society.... by not voting for people who don't accept our moral standards, by not socializing with people who don't accept our morals, and by not allowing our families to do so either. While the compound concept is great for you and your family, it doesn't deal with the larger problem, which WILL eventually come home to destroy us all. I hear you, and to a certain extent I do just that. It's amazing how tight the control over my environment I have between being self employed, having a small tight circle of friends, a great wife/partner, and houses, on the fringe, in somewhat small towns. I've really cut myself off from the reality that most people experience on a daily basis. I respect you for sticking to your beliefs as firmly as you do. Believe it or not, living a life that closely to your core belief system is the missing dynamic in other people's would be happy lives. You can not be "happy" if you're living apart from your core beliefs. The other necessary ingredient to happiness is Gratitude to a power greater than oneself. MSF, you've got the former nailed. When you can "give up the ghost" you'll have it all in spades. sorry for the hijack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I'll be brutally honest. Feel free to pick this apart because I'm not even sure about it. I would however like to actually address the question posed by Zguy so this thread can move towards becoming interesting. Value of life is a moving target. It's entirely subjective and based on a number of factors the person answering the question places importance in. Here are some of the things that seem to increase value which I base off the strength of the the emotional response triggered when I learn of their passing. 1- family: My family comes first. 2- Guilt: A killer's life is not worth as much as his victim. I think most would agree with that. 3- Familiarity: If I know someone their lives are worth much more to me then those I've never met. It's not entirely logical but it is what it is. The more you know about someone (assuming what you learn isn't that they are terrible individuals) the more you tend to root for them to make it. 4- Age/awareness: The very old and the extremely young don't seem to be as great a tragedy in passing. The old have lived long and full lives and while tragic, they are the lucky few that have made it to the finish line or very close to it. The very young (infants or pre-birth) aren't aware enough to really understand what the end means. 5- Mental ability: Someone in a coma passing away doesn't seem as tragic as someone fully aware and conscious. This is a slippery slope. 6- Potential: A kid with a bright future being cut down in his prime strikes me as a bigger deal then some down and out thug that clearly was headed to an early grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanCollins Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 What is the unit of measurment for this value? as far as the original poster is concerned, it's whatever you're not saying. Not subjective but rather intentionally vague to facilitate the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I hear you, and to a certain extent I do just that. It's amazing how tight the control over my environment I have between being self employed, having a small tight circle of friends, a great wife/partner, and houses, on the fringe, in somewhat small towns. I've really cut myself off from the reality that most people experience on a daily basis. Unfortunately, not being self-employed and living with others makes it a little more difficult for me to have that level of control over the environment I'm in than it is for you, apparently. I really envy you that ability to control the environment around you. You're very fortunate in that regard. I respect you for sticking to your beliefs as firmly as you do. Believe it or not, living a life that closely to your core belief system is the missing dynamic in other people's would be happy lives. You can not be "happy" if you're living apart from your core beliefs. The other necessary ingredient to happiness is Gratitude to a power greater than oneself. MSF, you've got the former nailed. When you can "give up the ghost" you'll have it all in spades. sorry for the hijack. Thank you for the kind words. I do have that gratitude to a higher power; it's just not the same higher power that you feel gratitude to. It amazes me how many people allow their core beliefs to be compromised then wonder why it is that their lives go into the toilet. I also wonder how many people would see their lives totally turned around if they would simply accept and live by a core group of simple morals and values. Unfortunately we all know that will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxskinsville Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Couldn't resist could you? No, I couldn't but, in my defense, I usually don't go around killing or allowing people to be killed on a regular basis. It's just not my thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanCollins Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Unfortunately, not being self-employed and living with others makes it a little more difficult for me to have that level of control over the environment I'm in than it is for you, apparently. I really envy you that ability to control the environment around you. You're very fortunate in that regard.Thank you for the kind words. I do have that gratitude to a higher power; it's just not the same higher power that you feel gratitude to. It amazes me how many people allow their core beliefs to be compromised then wonder why it is that their lives go into the toilet. I also wonder how many people would see their lives totally turned around if they would simply accept and live by a core group of simple morals and values. Unfortunately we all know that will never happen. I did get lucky with the self employment thing. Basically I left HS early, went into construction and stumbled (literaly) onto a lucrative niche (deck building) and stuck with it. Pure luck met by no preparation. As far as your higher power, I'm deffinately of the "non denominational" belief system. In other words whatever works for you is good. Don't give up on the whole human race. Everyday many discover what you already know and turn their lives around. I try to celebrate that and well hope that the rest will find it some day. I was lost for quite a while myself. Some (many) might still think so. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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