Time to fire up the bombers. Chemical weapons found in Iraq

[Kilmer17]

Lock and load boys.

Inspectors Find Empty Chemical Warheads in Iraq.

BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.N. inspectors searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq uncovered 11 empty chemical warheads in "excellent" condition on Thursday, a U.N. spokesman said.

A 12th warhead also was found that requires further evaluation, according to a statement by Hiro Ueki, the spokesman for U.N. weapons inspectors in Baghdad.

The presence of the shells, even if empty, would put Saddam Hussein in violation of the U.N. resolution ordering Iraq to disarm, former weapons inspector Tim Trevan told Fox News.

Ueki said the warheads were found at the Ukhaider ammunition storage area, which was built in the late 1990s.

He said an inspection team had gone there to inspect a large group of bunkers.

"During the course of their inspection, the team discovered 11 empty 122-mm chemical warheads, and one warhead that requires further evaluation," Ueki said in a statement.

[redman]

11 empty warheads isn't the real problem.

The problem is that Iraq:

- is led a regime that was known to be aggressively developing chemical, biological and nuclear weapons for over 25 years as of the early 90's;

- continually lied during and obstructed inspections for the seven years following the Gulf War and only admitted to the existence of WMD's when they were actually found by the inspectors;

- only destroyed the WMD's at the inspector's insistence and supervision;

- continued to develop WMD's during the time that the inspections were ongoing;

- unilaterally terminated the inspections and sent the inspectors home despite the inspectors knowing that there were substantial stockpiles of WMD's remaining; and

- now claims in public statements and in their 12,000 page U.N. declaration that they voluntarily destroyed all of their WMD's on their own after the inspectors left in 1998 (which is laughable) but has no direct proof of that destruction (e.g. photos, videotapes, junkyards full of destroyed weaponry, etc.)

What are we to think? Bombs away indeed.

[Kilmer17]

JohnnyLib McCain is on Hannity right now stating that there is no other choice now than to go to war.

[redman]

I can't figure McCain out. I think that he's become anti-Bush since that incident during the campaign where Bush slighted him (how, I can't remember) and that that's colored his politics a bit and has made him more willing to speak up in opposition to Bush, particularly on economic and social issues. Not that McCain was ever a conservative idealogue anyway.

However, McCain has always been hawkish when it comes to the U.S.'s national security.

[Golgo-13]

I'm so shocked!!! You mean Iraq isn't really a peace-loving nation that doesn't want to hurt anyone like the liberal media makes them out to be? Time to bring in the b-52's and start carpet-bombing the f#ckers.

[Henry]

From the Washington Post:

------------------

Inspectors Find 11 Empty Chemical Warheads in Iraq

U.N. Says Warheads Had Not Been Declared by Iraq

By Hamza Hendaw

Associated Press Writer

Thursday, January 16, 2003; 3:25 PM

BAGHDAD, Iraq ?? U.N. inspectors found 11 empty chemical warheads in "excellent" condition at an ammunition storage area in southern Iraq on Thursday, and the components were not reported in Iraq's declaration meant to account for all banned weapons, a U.N. spokesman said.

Iraq insisted the warheads had been included in its declaration. It was not immediately clear if discovery constituted a "material breach" of the U.N. resolution requiring Iraq to itemize all its weapons of mass destruction and their components.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the administration was "aware of the reports and we look forward to receiving information from the inspectors." McClellan would not comment on how significant the find was.

The 122 mm shells were found when inspectors searched bunkers built in the late 1990s at the Ukhaider Ammunition Storage Area, about 75 miles south of Baghdad, said Hiro Ueki, the spokesman for U.N. weapons inspectors in Baghdad, in a statement.

The team examined one of the warheads with X-ray equipment and took away samples for chemical testing, Ueki said.

The United States, which has begun a heavy military buildup in the Persian Gulf, has threatened war on Iraq if it is found to be hiding banned weapons programs. The Iraqi government says it no longer has any chemical, biological or nuclear weapons and submitted a 12,000-page declaration to the United Nations last month that it said proved its case.

Ueki told The Associated Press that the shells were not accounted for in the report. "It was a discovery. They were not declared," he said.

But Lt. Gen. Hossam Mohammed Amin, the chief Iraqi liaison officer to the inspection teams, said they were short-range shells imported in 1988 and mentioned in Iraq's December declaration.

He expressed "astonishment" over "the fuss made about the discovery by a U.N. inspection team of 'mass destruction weapons.' It is no more than a storm in a teacup," Amin told a news conference hastily called after the U.N. announcement.

Amin said the inspection team found the munitions in a sealed box that had never been opened and was covered by dust and bird droppings.

"When these boxes were opened, they found 122-mm rockets with empty warheads. No chemical or biological warheads. Just empty rockets which are expired and imported in 1988," Amin said, adding similar rockets were found by U.N. inspectors in 1997.

Physicist David Albright, president of the Institute for Science and International Security and a former nuclear weapons inspector in Iraq, said that the discovery would represent a violation "if Iraq knew that these warheads existed and they are for chemical weapons."

Inspectors will "have to test to see if there are any traces of chemical weapons in the warheads and in the bunkers where they were found, and they will have to talk to the Iraqis," Albright said.

On Dec. 7, a chemical team secured a dozen artillery shells filled with mustard gas that had first been inventoried by earlier inspectors in the 1990s. Those were the first weapons of mass production brought under inspectors' control in the current search, which began in November.

Chief inspectors Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei have said Iraq's weapons declaration is incomplete ? failing in particular to support its claims to have destroyed missiles, warheads and chemical agents such as VX nerve gas.

Inspectors on Thursday also searched the homes of two Iraqi scientists in Baghdad, escorting one of them to a field to examine what appeared to be a man-made mound of earth. The scientist, who carried a box of documents as he left his house, was then taken to the inspectors hotel along with the documents and Irai officials.

An Iraqi official said the inspectors also asked to interview two other scientists in private, but that the scientists refused to speak unless Iraqi liaison officials were present.

Blix and ElBaradei have stepped up demands that Iraqi improve its cooperation ? including allowing private interviews with scientists ? and are headed to Baghdad to meet officials Sunday and Monday and seek more information.

"Iraq must do more than they have done so far," Blix said in Belgium after briefing European Union officials. Iraqis "need to be more active ... to convince the Security Council that they do not have weapons of mass destruction."

Otherwise, he said, the alternative is "the other avenue ... we have seen taking shape in the form of military action."

The homes searched Thursday were those of physicist Faleh Hassan and his next-door neighbor, nuclear scientist Shaker el-Jibouri, in the neighborhood of al-Ghazalia.

It was the first time the inspectors have searched private home since they resumed their work. The team searched the homes for six hours, with experts seen going through documents at a table set up near Hassan's front door and having an animated discussion with Iraqi liaison officials.

Afterward, Hassan ? who is director of al-Razi, a military installation that specializes in laser development ? drove with the inspectors and Iraqi officials to a field about 10 miles west of Baghdad in an agricultural area known as al-Salamiyat. There, Hassan, two inspectors and a liaison officer walked to a bare field and examined what appeared to be a manmade earth mound for about five minutes.

Inspectors did not speak to journalists and it was not clear why they were interested in the mound. An Iraqi official later said the field was a farm that Hassan once owned but sold in 1996.

After the visit, a visibly angry el-Jibouri told reporters the inspectors spent two hours in his home ? and cordoned it off for much longer ? looking into everything, "including beds and clothes."

"This is a provocative operation," el-Jibouri said. "They did not take away any documents but they looked at personal research papers."

Inspectors also asked to speak privately at their hotel with two other scientists linked to Iraq's weapons programs Thursday, but the scientists refused to be interviewed without Iraqi officials present, Lt. Gen. Hossam Mohammed Amin, the top Iraqi liaison with the inspectors, told reporters.

The inspectors did not interview the two scientists, whom Amin did not identify. The two were on a list of 500 Iraqi scientists believed to have been involved in Iraq's armament programs and which was submitted to the United Nations last month, he said.

U.N. Resolution 1441, which set up the tough new inspections regime, empowers the U.N. teams to conduct private interviews with Iraqi scientists involved in biological, chemical or nuclear programs ? in hopes that privacy will encourage them to reveal hidden weapons. But while the Iraqi government says scientists are free to speak without officials presents, so far none have agreed to do so.

© 2003 The Associated Press

[dchogs]

we're definately ramping up for something major overseas. i talked to a marine friend of mine, and he said that camp pendleton basically just has the basic base troups there. everyone else has shipped out...

[Romo]

Does the date of this revelation not stick out with anyone else?

Jan 16/17 1991 was the day of the first attack of the Gulf War.

Im not speculating on anything just pointing out an interesting coincidence.

[redman]

The specifics are coincidental. However, it's not all coincidental.

In 1990-91 we timed the U.N. deadlines for Iraq to pull out of Kuwait so that we'd be fighting in the cooler (and drier) weather of the spring months. Likewise, we're now attempting to bring this all to a head before the weather gets hot. This particular discovery today, versus some other day, is pure coincidence.

[Sarge]

What a shock! We are gonna be schwacking uncle saddam in the next few weeks. We ain't movin' all that stuff to the gulf just for giggles. If I were uncle saddam, I'd be finding a way to get the he!! outta dodge...quickly.

[Romo]

Originally posted by redman

The specifics are coincidental. However, it's not all coincidental.

In 1990-91 we timed the U.N. deadlines for Iraq to pull out of Kuwait so that we'd be fighting in the cooler (and drier) weather of the spring months. Likewise, we're now attempting to bring this all to a head before the weather gets hot. This particular discovery today, versus some other day, is pure coincidence.

I know its a coincidence but i was kinda hoping the war would start on my birthday (the 17th) as it did the last time. A couple months ago I make a joking prediction with some friends that it would.

[Tommy-the-Greek]

There is one fact that most people have missed and the whitehouse should run with. The bunker where the 11 shells were found was built in the late 90's. That means the 11 shells were moved there in the last 3-5 years. This wasn't something they forgot about.

You do not build a new bunker and unload materials into it unless you are fully aware of what you are doing.

[fansince62]

ABC News reported last night that the Saudi's have surfaced a plan for supporting an Iraqi coup that might undercut the need for a risky war. Apparently, a segment of White House security advisors favors this option.

[Kilmer17]

The only thing that needs to be said to the antiwar left is this.

Those warheads can ONLY be used for one thing. To deliver chemical weapons. They have no other function.

[redskin56]

Tommy,

Another point that the Whitehouse should run with is that these bunkers are in forward positions. That means that those rockets could have been placed there fore rapid deployment against countries to the South and West. Basically, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.

[redman]

That former Iraqi nuclear scientist who defected has said that the only way to ensure that Iraq is fully disarmed is to basically occupy the country. For this reason, a coup simply won't get it done. Besides, I have zero confidence in a coup adequately replacing the regime currently in place; out with one monster, in with another.

[fansince62]

redman....you're probably right....I was reporting an interesting alternative that might conserve American blood (at least in the short-run).

[Tarhog]

redman, I've always thought McCain was tough to figure out. But as far as his enthusiasm for taking on Hussein, it might well have a lot to do with having undergone torture and imprisonment himself. McCain knows a viscious cruel evil ******* when he sees one.

I'm not convince these warheads were anything but a leftover from the Iran/Iraq war and may well have just been forgotten in some storage area. That doesn't mitigate the more serious problem, that they probably have tons of sarin nerve agent, mustard gas, and other chemical agents ready to go. I think verification of their 'stockpiles' will take place when the bullets start flying, as Hussein has much less incentive to restrain from using what he's got this time. Bet we see major chemical attacks once we move in on the ground.

One of the major reasons to go in late winter early spring (and why we attacked when we did last time) is not only the heat but the weather patterns. What the press doesn't get is that its not the 'conditioning' of US troops (as opposed to the Iraqi troops) that is the issue, but we'll be attacking in MOPP gear, heavy, non-breathing chemical protective suits just as we did in 1991. You cannot even walk quickly without breaking into a sweat in this gear. Its extremely hot. Couple that with the potential that troops might have to attack in gas masks, and you've got a real problem. So the cooler the better. Also, the exact timing of the ground war last time was timed for wind patterns. We attacked Kuwait into the wind so that if chems were used, they'd be much less effective.

[fansince62]

nice, factual post tarhog. you ex-mil or have friends in the mil?

[Tommy-the-Greek]

Tarhog, You left out another factor. The US forces need the long winter nights due to our forces ability to rein supreme in darkness. It will start by the middle to end of Febuary. All of our forces will be in theater and ready to go. I live near a major AFB and the airtraffic hasn't been this busy since the Gulf war build up.

I only hope we don't have to fight town to town block to block door to door. This would be the worst case scenerio for bloodshed to our forces. We can all hope the average Iraqi surrenders when they hear the americans are comming.

[Tarhog]

I was Marine infantry for 10 years, did the first Gulf excursion with 1st Bn, 3rd Marines. We were 'Task Force Taro' (name only makes sense if you are familiar with Hawaii where we were based). Its actually cold and damp over there this time of year. I think one factor in our favor this time is that we aren't going to agonize and wait as we did in Desert Shield. I can tell you having 5-6 months to think about what we were going into wasn't great for the psyche. The quicker (assuming we have the forces and supplies in place) we go, the better in my mind. Agree with the use of night. 2 weeks before the ground war we received infrared sights for our M-16's, additional night vision devices, laser range-finders and target designators, and even overgarments specifically made to make us 'invisible' at night. I can only imagine what the ground guys have now. I think we are smart enough to fight where we can win decisively. The only thing I really think could be a problem is if Saddam chooses to disappear into the populace (ala Noriega) and begs us to come and find him. I think you'll see us make getting the military assets and WOMD the priority, and Hussein out of Bagdad, rather than making 'get Saddam' the stated goal. That was a big mistake in the Afghanistan campaign in terms of public perception. I feel for the guys over there. That is tough psychologically to go through no matter how tough you are as you have to contemplate your destiny up close and personal.

[fansince62]

you have to take an anthrax shot? if so...what went through your mind at the time? I wasn't too thrilled when I had to.....after the war....

[Skins24]

Iraq failing to comply (but what else is new)

Saturday January 18, 3:26 PM

Iraq "failing" to comply with UN resolution: Powell

Iraq is failing to comply with the UN Security Council resolution calling for its disarmament and is deceiving UN arms inspectors, US Secretary of State Colin Powell charged in an interview with a German newspaper.

In the interview, to be published in the Sueddeutsche Zeitung paper on Saturday, Powell also stressed the importance of a report on the arms issue to be given to the Security Council on January 27, said that if the UN did not do what was required to disarm Iraq after that date, the United States reserved the right to do so.

"Based on what we have seen so far, Iraq is failing to meet the mandate of 1441," Powell told the paper, referring to Security Council Resolution 1441, which calls for Iraq to be disarmed and sets up the current tough system of inspections.

"Iraq has failed to cooperate. It has failed to put forward a believable declaration, as required. It is not making people available. It is not making documents available. It is deceiving the inspectors. It is trying to make it harder for the inspectors to do their work," Powell said, according to an official transcript of the interview released in Washington.

"If the United States feels strongly that Iraq still has weapons of mass destruction and (is) trying to develop new ones, the United States reserves the right and believes there is sufficient authority within international law, based on many acts of noncompliance, many material breaches in the past and continuing material breaches into the present, that would give us a basis for undertaking whatever might be required to disarm Iraq," Powell said.

"What the United States will be looking for on the 27th of January and what every member of the Security Council should be looking for on the 27th of January is a simple -- is a simple proposition: Is Iraq cooperating, as was intended under 1441? And is it cooperating in a way that would satisfy the demands of the international community for Iraq to disarm? And that's a judgment that the Council will have to make," the US official said.

"We cannot get ourselves into a situation where the Council just, in the presence of this kind of non-cooperation, just wants to not do anything and let it continue forever," he added.

The interview was given to a group of reporters from countries who have just joined the UN Security Council.

Germany, which became a non-permanent member for two years on January 1, is to take over the chair of the 15-country Council from France on February 1.

It is also the major western country whose government has so far been most strongly opposed to any war on Iraq, saying it will not take part even if the conflict is authorized by the United Nations.

Powell also said the United States had "absolutely no regrets" at having gone to the United Nations to try and seek agreement for action against Iraq.

He added that US President had not yet decided whether to go to war.

"The President has not made a decision for war. The President has said he would like to see this resolved peaceably," he told the paper.

"But if it isn't resolved peacefully -- peacefully -- then, he believes the international community has an obligation to disarm Iraq forcefully."

"And he believes if the international community isn't willing to do it, then the United States, with like-minded nations, may have that obligation so that the world does not face an Iraq with weapons of mass destruction."

The head of the UN arms inspectorate, Hans Blix is due to make his report to the Security Council on January 27 on the first two months of weapons inspections in Iraq.

Earlier on Friday, Bush's spokesman, Ari Fleischer, said it was "becoming increasingly clear" that Saddam had not disarmed.

He added that 11 empty chemical warheads found by UN inspectors in Iraq on Thursday did not appear on the list of weapons Iraq had submitted to the United Nations.

Blix, meanwhile, said he was seeking "more explanations" from Baghdad about the empty warheads, which were found in an arms depot.

He said the munitions would be destroyed after undergoing tests, and added that he was not yet sure whether they had featured in Iraq's weapons declaration to the UN last month.

The Iraqi statement was filed as part of UN resolution 1441 which gave Iraq one month to make a complete disclosure of its weapons of mass destruction -- or face "serious consequences".

[Tarhog]

Fan, we had to take a lot of 'stuff'. Anthrax, yes. I was a Platoon Commander at the time, so I didn't have the luxury of questioning how great an idea this was. I was expected to take it without hesitation and I did. We also were given 'NAP' tablets (not sure what the chemical components were) which supposedly was a veterinary medication which binds with the same neuroreceptors that Nerve agents affect. We were told it had never been approved for human use. Great! I will say that about 3 months after I got back from the Gulf (and left the service), I spiked a temp, got a rash all over my upper torso and 3 days later couldn't use my right arm. It took 14 months before function of my right arm returned. I don't know if it was Gulf War syndrome or not, but it certainly was bizarre. Just thankful I got use of my arm back. There were so many toxins present during the 2-4 days the ground war occured I think it could have been caused by anything. There were dead animals of every kind wherever you went (I don't know whether they were killed in the bombing campaign or as a result of chem/bio weapons, but there were carcasses everywhere). The other thing everyone over there was exposed to was breathing petroleum fumes as a result of the oil fields being set ablaze. Ash and oil residue coated everything and I'm sure we breathed a lot of it. It was so intense on Day two of the ground war that it was perpetually dark for 48 hours. One of my Marines came to me about 8am that morning and said 'Sir.....the sun is gone, its not coming up!', to which I diplomatically replied 'Well what the *uck do you want me to do about it Johnson?'. Anyway, it was a surreal experience, but I'm pretty convinced based on my health problems afterwards and some similiar problems my peers experienced that we got exposed to some chemical weapons there. Probably too much information, but you asked

[fansince62]

tar.....I know some quality folks who are marines.....semper fidelis!!! one friend is "a knuckle dragging ground pounder" (his words) who passed the same stark, visual images.

also...I only caught the tail end (and therefore really can't relay an honest story) but there is some scientist who has strung together a theory based on circumstantial evidence and numerous GWS vets that the Iraqi's used sarin gas.