ljer Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Tom, This post is not meant to bust on you or anything, I know you guys got hosed on a bad call and all, but I've got a question. Just wanted to get your thoughts. In a previous thread you wrote this: "You want to know the truth? I am getting over this and it will take me a few more days. Probably after this weekend and I see the Bucs rip Owens a new one and eliminate the 49er's from the playoffs." Why do you want the Bucs to rip Owens a new one?? Because you don't like his on field antics and think he's a jerk? Now, can you see why some of us don't like Shockey? To me they are one in the same. What's the difference? Can you imagine if Owens flipped off the crowd or threw ice water on a fan. The guy would have been crucified. Why not Jeremey? Because he's the new media darling in NY? You say you like Shockey because of his fiery attitude. Well I think Owens is just as fiery, I don't see much of a difference. You also say us 'Skins fans would love Shockey. I agree, but I personally could do without the celebrations after every 3 yard reception. I hated it when Westbrook (and now Gardner) went thru his first down show after every catch. Believe me, I love tough competitors,(the'Skins could use a few more) but let's tone down the antics some. Don't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Gardners 1sts down point is nothing. He doesn't say anything to the other team ala Shockey and he's pointing. Big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Great post and point... I agree 100%. Shockey and Owens are one in the same to me. P.S. I can't stand Gardners antics either, or Smoots, or LaVars.... I just don't like celebrating or talking crap over routine things... If you score a touch down or get an interception, fine.... I can deal with that a little, (I still like Barry Sanders celebration the best... pure class. Act like youve done it before) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Owens will forever hold a place close to my heart for spiking the ball on the star at the 50 in Texas Stadium, it is something I have wanted to do since the early 1970's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 That cover of ESPN the mag was dead on. There are guys out there who are on drugs, beat their wives and all kinds of other stuff.....but the NFL is after him for using a Sharpie and playing with the cheerleaders? whatever. He might be an a$$ but he's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsLegacy44 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I am no Giants fan, but I like & am intrigued by Jeremy Shockey. However, I find a huge difference in Owens & JS. TO is a talented WR, who likes to score td's & celebrate. JS is a '****y' tough football player who likes contact & thrives off of tough plays. T.O. hitting a player out of bounds was a 'cheap' thing to do, and then falling down (before he got hit) made him look like a real b*tch. Shockey is a player who gets on opposing teams nerves by taunting players with hard hits & tough words on the field. T.O. is more of a b*tch and likes to take his battle's to the sideline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Unlike T.O. I've never seen Shockey lose his cool on the field because some other guy mouthed off at him. I think Shockey is a clown, but he manages to keep it together and not cross lines that T.O. does. And yes, bulldog, I must say that I too enjoyed T.O. on the Dallas star. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 To me the biggest difference is this. I have not heard a single word from the giants camp saying shockey is getting into fights with fassell about not getting the ball enough. Owens is me, me, me. Shockey just gets so into the game he loses all control. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer To me the biggest difference is this. I have not heard a single word from the giants camp saying shockey is getting into fights with fassell about not getting the ball enough. Owens is me, me, me. Shockey just gets so into the game he loses all control. -DB BUT you do hear stories about Shockey getting into fights with his teammates on the 1st day, week, whatever of camp. And you do hear stories about Shockey making anti-gay remarks on a nationally syndicated radio show. The difference between them is black and white. Its a sad thing to say - but if Shockey was a black player - he would have been crucified by the media. Since hes the great white hope in NYC now (ala Sehorn a couple of years ago) - he will mostly get a free ride. I know that its bad to bring up the race card - but I think it truly plays in here. But maybe I am missreading the situation. I dunno :gus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I don't think that race has anything to do with it. Fights happen in every camp. I happen to think that he got off Scot free with the gay stuff, although it was mentioned in the media a little bit. But contrast that with the treatment that John Rocker or even Kerry Collins got a couple of years ago with similarly inflammatory comments and Shockey wasn't touched. It's what happens on the field that is the difference. Almost everyone's got an athelte's ego. However I get the feeling for T.O. that that's the end-all. I don't see how his emotion fires up his teammates. Shockey OTOH does fire up his teammates; you can see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Originally posted by redman I don't think that race has anything to do with it. Fights happen in every camp. I happen to think that he got off Scot free with the gay stuff, although it was mentioned in the media a little bit. But contrast that with the treatment that John Rocker or even Kerry Collins got a couple of years ago with similarly inflammatory comments and Shockey wasn't touched. It's what happens on the field that is the difference. Almost everyone's got an athelte's ego. However I get the feeling for T.O. that that's the end-all. I don't see how his emotion fires up his teammates. Shockey OTOH does fire up his teammates; you can see it. You're probably right Redman - but hearing the black/white thing on the radio last week made me think a little about it - and thought that there might be some substance behind it. The problem is - is you wouldnt be able to ever measure it. So its just speculation... You guys are wrong about TO though - he breaks a lot of tackles and doesn't shy away from hits. He's just a little smarter about it - he would rather run around a guy and score than seek someone out to hit and get stopped short of the end zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Owens doesn't act like every catch is a TD either. Only the many more than Shockey that he catches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljer Posted January 8, 2003 Author Share Posted January 8, 2003 It's what happens on the field that is the difference. Almost everyone's got an athelte's ego. However I get the feeling for T.O. that that's the end-all. I don't see how his emotion fires up his teammates. Shockey OTOH does fire up his teammates; you can see it. I agree, somewhat. I'm not a big T.O. fan, but how does flipping off the crowd and throwing ice water on an 11 year old, fire up your teammates? And...no one says a word about it? I bet if the Gints moved on, the announcers would have been drooling all over this guy again...... ad naseum. I thought Collins played one of the best games of his career, but all they did was follow Shockey all over the field. It was sickening. Shockey is no dummy...he'll come out of this smelling like a rose, just like Deion, with a load of $$$ in his bank account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I'm not familiar with the ice water thing. If that's what he did then that is more TO-esque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 No it's not. T.O. taunts the other team or dances with Pom-Poms. Shockey flicks off the camera and does a TD dance for worthless catches in the preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljer Posted January 8, 2003 Author Share Posted January 8, 2003 I'm not familiar with the ice water thing. That's exactly my point. Alot of people didn't even know he did it. If that's Owens, it's plastered all over everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 What it doesnt say is that he threw the cup of ice water at some teenage fans in the stands - class move if you ask me Shockey's Drop Sends Giants Spinning Mon Jan 6, 2:11 AM ET By JANIE McCAULEY, AP Sports Writer SAN FRANCISCO - Excitable rookie Jeremy Shockey hurled a cup of ice water when things were going well. He kicked the orange end-zone pylon in frustration when he dropped a touchdown pass that turned the momentum against the New York Giants (news). A botched snap on a field-goal attempt with 6 seconds left was the biggest blow in the Giants' 39-38 NFC wild-card loss to San Francisco on Sunday — but the meltdown started with Shockey's miss. Everything was working until that play late in the third quarter. Quarterback Kerry Collins (news) pounded both fists to his helmet after Shockey failed to catch the near-perfect pass. If Shockey had converted, New York would have led 42-14. The Giants settled for a field goal, their last points of the game. "It's a bad feeling," said Shockey, who caught seven passes for 68 yards and a touchdown. The Giants (10-7) blew a 24-point lead, yet still had a shot to win it in the final seconds. Newly signed snapper Trey Junkin (news) made a poor snap for the second time in the game, and Matt Bryant never got a chance to kick the potential winning field goal from 41 yards out. "This is about the worst loss I have ever felt in my entire life," said Giants coach Jim Fassel, whose team won its final four (news - web sites) games, including the last one of the season on an overtime field goal by Bryant. "I am not going to get over this one for a while." Holder Matt Allen warned Bryant the snap could be low again. "I told him, 'Just be aware, go ahead and trust me and to go ahead and expect the ball to go down,'" Allen said. "I told Junkin to get it right. I told him, 'You've been playing in this league for 19 years, you've got to come through for us.'" When the snap came and Allen couldn't control it, he scooped up the ball. Many of the Giants sprinted toward the end zone and Allen heaved a desperation pass that fell incomplete. Flags were thrown because New York had linemen downfield, so even if the pass had been caught it wouldn't have mattered. "I tried to make the perfect snap instead of a good snap," the 41-year-old Junkin said only five days after coming out of retirement to sign with the Giants. "You don't do that. This is something I've done for 32 years, but not anymore." Bryant had missed wide left with 3:01 remaining from 42 yards after another low snap. Long-snapping plagued the Giants all season. Three bad snaps helped cost New York seven points in a 27-20 victory at Minnesota on Nov. 10. Fassel said that game caused him to lose sleep, because he was constantly waking up in the middle of the night recalling the miscues. This cost the Giants much more — their season. "It's very frustrating," Bryant said. "I can't even begin to tell you how frustrating. I've gone through five or six snappers and two holders. It's been strange this year. Probably, what's most frustrating of all is that I didn't get a chance." Two of the Giants' starting offensive linemen, Jason Whittle (news) and Chris Bober, came to the team as long snappers. When they developed enough at the position to start, the duties were taken away because practicing with kickers would have taken time away from their primary job. After the fiasco in Minnesota, Whittle was used for a short time, but reluctantly. Even quarterback Kerry Collins couldn't help being a little bit surprised about Junkin's performance after watching how well he snapped in practice. Collins stressed that Junkin wasn't the only one responsible for the second-worst collapse in NFL playoff history. "It was just complete and utter shock," Collins said. "It shouldn't have come down to that. That's the bottom line and we have only ourselves to blame for that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Again, my impression of Shockey is that it's more pure emotion; with T.O., I get the impression that it's all calculated and meant to showcase himself. Name something Shockey's done that remotely approaches the planning of putting a Sharpie in your sock. Again, I love neither player's antics; Shockey gets under my skin just as T.O. does. And Shockey certainly benefits from being an NYC media darling whereas T.O. does not, sort of along the lines of "He's our S.O.B." It also bears repeating that I think both ar phenomenal players at their respective positions. However I do see distinctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Name something Shockey's done that remotely approaches the planning of putting a Sharpie in your sock. Rather than easily avoiding tacklers - Shockey deliberately tries to make contact and hit people. This could have come back to haunt the Cryants if they hadnt scored the TD after Shockey's obvious attempt to hit someone rather than score. Dont mind the hitting - just it looks like he tries to hit people (for his own hightlights) rather than avoid them and score (for the team's good). Just my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Originally posted by bulldog Owens will forever hold a place close to my heart for spiking the ball on the star at the 50 in Texas Stadium, it is something I have wanted to do since the early 1970's Absolutley. remember what Riggins did when he scored? -he threw the ball to the ref and jogged off the field. I would like Shockey on our team too if I was a Giants fan, but would be embarassed every time had a tantrum because he did what he's supposed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Up until the playoff game, Shockey was doing what he did with drive for playing the game. I admit, he lost his cool in the game against the niners. I don't agree him throwing ice and giving the finger. He lost his cool. But I would say that that is the only time all year he stooped to Owens' level. Owens is more of a taunting attitude. Shockey is more passion and a love for playing the game. The one time you could have construed him mouthing off to an opponenet during the regular season was in that last one against Philly when he caught the TD. But Dawkins said something to him first about, "You got that one big boy." All Shockey said to that when he was shaking his head was, "yes I did." Shockey doesn't taunt his opponents. He gets excited when he catches a ball. There is nothing wrong with that. When Owens takes out a Sharpie in front of the other team or spikes the star in Dallas or takes the pom poms (although this one I thought was funny) or rubs it in to an opponent which he has done a number of times, I see a big difference between his actions and Shockey's. Again, Shockey lost his cool in the playoff game and I don't condone those actions. But that is the only incident by Shockey that I would say resembled Owens. I definitely think they are two different animals. Owens indirectly rubs it in opponents' faces while Shockey shows his emotion and desire for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummagumma Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Have any posters ever seen Shockey cheap shot players out of bounds? This is not a rhetorical question, I've only seen the Giants play a few games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 In the Philly game when he caught the late TD pass Shockey was talking trash to the defender before he even got up. I don't think it was his passion for the game that prompted him to do that. It was TAUNTING! I would agree that Shockey's antics and Owens' are VERY similar. They aren't serious or anything ... just enough to make everyone outside of their own fans grit their teeth a bit. But I don't buy the Shockey's is passion and Owens' is taunting bit. They look the same to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I really like Terrell Owens I really like Jeremy Shockey I really liked Deion Sanders Those are the kinds of guys that make football (and sports in general) interesting. Imagine if every player acted like Barry Sanders. Who would you hate? Who would you root against? How fun would it be if you genuinely like all the players on the Cowboys? So, are some of you telling me that you'd like for every guy to be polite, cordial, and never draw attention to himself. Perhaps we could have a league that resembled "Mr. Rogers neighborhood." As long as a guy works hard, plays hard, wants to win, etc.... then I have no problem with them. The guys I don't like are the ones that lack motivation, could be considered losers, etc... I've never heard a negative word about Big Daddy for example and he never dances or does that stuff, but I have heard he's lazy, doesn't always bust his tail, etc...not sure if that's true, but if it is, that bothers me MUCH more than a guy pointing or dancing. Owens is the BEST WR in football, period. I'll take him over Harrison any day of the week. I actually think his emotion makes him a little MORE acctractive than some other guys. I could do without the personal foul calls because that hurts his team, but overall, his good outweighs his bad. Have you ever seen his workout regimine? It's crazy. Have you ever heard him talk about how bad he wants to win? Guy's a warrior. I love him. Shockey is a punk, no doubt. But I think his "let's kick %%)" attitude rubbed off on the whole team this year. He certainly made their offense a lot better. And now he creates a villan for opposing fans to root against. Makes it fun. Two of my favorite Redskins of all-time? Gary Clark and Wilbur Marshall. My best friend is a Cowboy fan and he HATED those two. Made me love them even more. Marshall sometimes hurt us with late hits and stupid plays, but his impact and emotion was a huge factor in our success. I still remember him grabbing Jay Novacek by the throat and throwing him to the ground during the 1992 game at RFK. He got called for the penalty, but that play woke everyone up and turned the game into a street fight-- which always favors the home team. We all know how that game ended. It was beautiful. If you want to hate guys that dance around and stuff, that's fine, but just remember that they make the games more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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