Kilmer17 Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Black Churches arent burning, women arent dying in back alley abortions, and the elderly haven't lost their medicair payments. Come on GOP get going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Is bitterness a prerequisite for being a Republican? :laugh: Give it time Kilmer...give it time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 TEG, You'd be bitter to if someone decided to continue to lie about you, insult you and steal from you. Tell you what. Let's run a little experiment. I'll come over to your house and every day before you leave I'll slap you in the face, scream that you are raping babies, take your wallet and pull out whatever I think you don't need, and then say you have too much. Give it a week. And you'll know what bitter is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Sure Art - thats happening every day I like it better when you ***** about your girlfriend almost making 4x the median family income and getting taxed too much (and being middle class). At least I could find humor in that. And irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Actually, TEG, it's my wife, not my girlfriend. Not only that, but it's my wife who got an engineering degree from USC. Then took her EIT. Then went to law school. Then passed the bar. Then passed the patent bar. Then got paid. That was how it worked. I know with liberal envy you like to think my wife woke up one day and the tooth fairy gave her a check for being cute, but, in reality, it's very likely people who make money worked for it. I realize in your little educational bubble and save haven of liberal elitists that the "wealthy" are anyone making more than you, unless you're one of the hypocritical rich who are liberal and then want others to pay for programs you refuse to pay for yourself. But, irony is displayed in the envy of your post. You are typical, liberal trash. You actually hold people who do better than others in disdain. It's frightening. And, it's precisely the attitude I was speaking about that does happen every day. You just did exactly what I was talking about. Thanks for making my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Actually, TEG, it's my wife, not my girlfriend. :doh: No disrespect meant. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Actually, I take that back. Calling someone trash is a little overboard isnt it? Please step of your condescending high horse and breathe some common sense okay? And by the way - you dont know anything about my education. How hard I have worked. What I lived through growing up., etc. So sorry for not being one of the lemmings who follow your diatribes against what you do and dont believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I think its time to take a break from the Tailgate for awhile. Dont think I like being called "Trash" and having other false assertions made by one of the higher ups here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 TEG, I called you typical liberal trash. That's not overboard. It may not even reach the level of garbage typical liberal trash attains. You find it amusing that my wife and I have to essentially pay the federal government more in tax than the average family makes. I find it disgusting you'd be amused by the plight of people who actually bothered to work for their money and kind of thought it was the American dream to keep it. Then, you ask me to show "common sense"? This from a person who thinks people who've worked hard to earn an income should not complain about paying half of portions of it to the federal government. Common sense is necessary. But, not from me. And, so you know, I took no offense to you calling my wife my girlfriend. None whatsoever so you've nothing to take back there. If you want to take something back, take back the thought that somehow my wife and I who pay some $50,000 a year in taxes aren't paying as much as we could afford to pay. Take that insult back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 TEG, You're made of stiffer stuff than this. This conversation doesn't even begin to rise to the level of some of those we've had here. After playing the politics of envy card, don't start playing the mewling baby card as well. You're a tough guy. You handle yourself well here. I find your attitude to the fortunes of others pathetic and complete trash. I find your views typical liberal trash on this issue. And, yeah, I find you the same for espousing the thought that people who make money shouldn't expect to keep it. That shouldn't surprise you. It shouldn't run you off. But, as insulted as you are by being called trash, I'm equally as disturbed by the amusement you show at what my wife and I have to deal with on behalf of those who envy what we've worked to attain. And I'm not going to suck my thumb and run off. I don't expect you are the sort that will either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I love you guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APB Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Way to go, Art. You are my hero. F--- people who can't get one degree let alone four because they have to work and support their families. Not necessarily families they started producing at 12, mind you, but families into which they were born. F--- people who choose to provide heat rather than milk for their children. Those kids don't deserve free milk. I can't remember the last time a poor child thanked me for his milk. Poor people shouldn't have children to begin with. I would suggest government sterilization, but I'm not paying for that. That's what rusty coat hangers are for. Everybody has problems. The difference I've found between typical liberal trash and typical conservative trash is that conservatives choose only to worry about their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 APB, A person who can not support a child shouldn't have a child. You're absolutely right. A person who does have a child who can not support the child is doing a terrible thing to that child and his/herself. You're right that a conservative tends to believe in the duties of self. Self control. Self restraint. Self responsibility. It is not our duty to bail you out of your mistakes. That's not selfish either. That's a fairly reasonable request. If you are not in a situation in life where you can afford to handle all of your affairs, then why should anyone else be FORCED to assist you for your mistakes in life? I've given more money in my life to help children in need than you've ever thought about giving. Because, the difference between the innocent child and the guilty parent is great. I am a strong proponent of being charitable to organizations or persons you feel need the help. I'm not a strong proponent of being forced to feed the fat, lazy, breeding welfare mother who doesn't have the common good sense to shut her legs for 20 minutes and work over that period of time. So, the slanderous, outrageous, hurtful claims can be tossed in both directions. And both are likely effective rhetoric. The difference is, in order to believe as I do, I have to believe people should be responsible for themselves in this world. To believe as you do, apparently, I have to be responsible for others. Not you. If you felt YOU should be responsible for others, that'd be great. But, you don't feel that. You feel that I should be. And that's the difference between us. So, you may think it's a slight to worry about one's own. I think it's a slight that you worry about my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APB Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Art, You sure know a lot about me. Oh wait. No you don't. How are you supposed to know my income, my lifestyle, my charitable habits, my tax bracket... Just because you think you know everything, doesn't mean you do. My point is that you seem to think that the children who are born into poor homes should be held responsible for that fact. I don't. Self control has nothing to do with why some people can't became educated or wealthy or self-sufficient. That is not the case everytime. You're right. There are a tremendous number of ignorant, lazy, uncaring slobs. If it makes you feel any better, I just went next store to a halfway house for veterans. These are people who served their country--I'd assume its your country to, but they probably wouldn't--who returned from war with numerous physical and/or psychological scars. They hold down whatever jobs they can find. They are clean and sober, they are Christians (for what that's worth), they are uneducated, and they will all soon be on the street. The government-funding (your money and mine) for the home in which they live and receive both counseling and job-training has been drastically cut, so their rent will be doubling and they'll be on the their own. Anyway, I asked them about you, and they said to thank you for the fruit cake and can of soup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 APB, As is fairly typical for a liberal to make a point they have to state what was said incorrectly in order to score points. At no point have I said children born into poor homes should be held responsible for that fact. In fact, I said I know the difference between the innocent child and the guilty parent. So, in fact, you had to lie to get your point across, didn't you? In fact, I don't, as I said, hold children responsible for the irresponsibility of their parents. I do hold the parents responsible however, and the reason I have given more time and money to organizations that help children is because, as I said, I understand completely the difference. As for whether self responsibility and control are responsible for self sufficiency, education or wealth in all cases, let's say I don't disagree with you that it's not always a sure thing every time. But, the fact is, as you said, I'm right, that there are a tremendous amount of ignorant, lazy, uncaring slobs. And you can't help those who demonstrate their responsibility because there are too many more that you are forced to help that don't. It's rarely an all or nothing thing in any debate. As for your personal story about veterans, I can say it's a terrible thing that in order to help the lazy, uncaring, ignorant, breeding hordes with social welfare programs that we've been forced to cut necessary and appropriate assistance to our nation's veterans. Perhaps you should join me in voting Republican so we can increase our assistance to our great veterans and remove it from the uncaring, lazy, breeding slobs? I'm all for veteran assistance. Veterans provide a service to our nation and should be pampered to and catered to for all time. Anyone willing to devote themselves to their country ought to receive as much assistance as possible from their government. So, let's get them the money going to the wrong people, shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APB Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 The phrase "you seem to think" indicates that an interpreation of another's words or acts will follow. Such a phrase is not, in fact, intended to communicate that the observation to follow is stated as fact. I don't claim any knowledge of the way you choose to lead your life. I don't care. I do reserve the right to mock your self-congratulatory and elitist tone. I do reserve the right to wonder at your illogical rhetorical leaps. (My personal favorite was "It's rarely an all or nothing thing in any debate" followed by your depiction of "the lazy, uncaring, ignorant, breeding hordes.") I do reserve the right to be horrified that there are millions of people in this country who would agree with you simply because you used the phrase "Perhaps you should join me in voting Republican...." Fact is, I used to vote Republican. Now I don't, generally speaking. My votes weren't bought. I didn't suddenly become poor or uneducated. If you choose to dismiss or intentionally misread my opinions, knock yourself out. It's a free country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 APB, reply within. "The phrase "you seem to think" indicates that an interpreation of another's words or acts will follow. Such a phrase is not, in fact, intended to communicate that the observation to follow is stated as fact. I don't claim any knowledge of the way you choose to lead your life. I don't care." Sorry. You can't seem to think I said something when I said precisely the opposite. I said one thing. You wrote, "you seem to think" something completely different. You couldn't interpret what I said as what you did. Therefore you lied. It doesn't have to be seen as a factual statement. Obviously, it wasn't factual because it falsely stated a belief I held that was directly opposite words I said. But, nonetheless, it's a lie. As for whether you claim any knowledge of the way I lead my life or not is also not true. You have knowledge of the way I live my life. I write how I do. I write what I believe. I tell you. You do know. You know much more about me, from my own statements, than I would about you. This is another trait of liberals. Rarely do they put themselves out there for inspection. In many cases it's because they fail to measure up to the goal they set for others to measure up to. But, don't pretend you don't know me. You know me well. I've told you my beliefs here. You aren't mistaken about me at all, and you do care, which is why you replied in the first place. Likewise, I care about what you say. That's why we're talking. "I do reserve the right to mock your self-congratulatory and elitist tone." I do reserve the right to mock your "woe is me" philosophy about the world and the people of our nation. Fair's fair. I don't think I commented on your desire to attempt a mockery. I mock back. That's fun. "I do reserve the right to wonder at your illogical rhetorical leaps. (My personal favorite was "It's rarely an all or nothing thing in any debate" followed by your depiction of "the lazy, uncaring, ignorant, breeding hordes.")" Your inability to understand the content is your limitation, not mine. If you followed the conversation, what I said to you was that I agree with you that some very hard working, responsible people don't always raise their lot in life. And I wrote that too many more fall into the category you provided, of lazy, uncaring and ignorant slobs. I wrote that, in fact, I completely concur there's a difference and it's rarely an all or nothing thing in a debate. I was attempting to explain to you that I take it on faith that you don't believe all poor in this country are fairly depicted as you opened your appearance in this thread writing about. I don't believe all poor in this country are lazy welfare mothers. Further, my depiction that used the phrase you're discussing was based upon your admission, "There are a tremendous number of ignorant, lazy, uncaring slobs." So, please, if you need me to babysit you through a conversation and then pretend you missed your own comments in the process, don't expect me to think you are bright in the future. I'll give you a pass on this stupidity just this once. "I do reserve the right to be horrified that there are millions of people in this country who would agree with you simply because you used the phrase "Perhaps you should join me in voting Republican...."" I do reserve the right to be horrified that there are millions of people in this country who would disagree with me that an individual has a responsibility to live within his means and only the most extreme cases should we consider forced monetary assistance for such people. "Fact is, I used to vote Republican. Now I don't, generally speaking. My votes weren't bought. I didn't suddenly become poor or uneducated." Unfortunately the poor and uneducated do vote for Democrats. They don't know better. You don't strike me as the same sort. And that makes you more of a concern because you have actually processed some belief that allows you to feel it's appropriate to steal money from me and feel that's ok. The educated, wealthy liberals are a far greater mistake than those who simply don't know any better, or who vote Democrat because the Dems give them free stuff. You're actually portraying yourself as the sort that feels it's smart to take something from me to fulfill something you believe. And if you're wealthy, you're doing this without surrending more of your own to satisfy your beliefs. You're simply robbing from others because you are unwilling to fund your own beliefs. That's tragic. "If you choose to dismiss or intentionally misread my opinions, knock yourself out. It's a free country." I haven't chosen to dismiss you. I have not intentionally misread your opinions, as you have mine now repeatedly. I've give you points where you've made them and pointed out agreements we have. I've expressed sorrow at the situation you described and said I fully support help to those men. That you have not recognized any of that makes you someone easy to dismiss. I just haven't done it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 For what it's worth, on the way home from packing up our stuff to head out, I think I saw the first elderly person that had been cut off from Federal aid and Social Security wandering he streets. And I'm pretty sure that I saw some bulldozers getting ready to cut down some trees, as well. Good debate you all have going here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APB Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Art, You're having this conversation because you care what I have to say? I figured you were having this conversation because you cared what you had to say. Why would you care to have a conversation with a liar? I had this conversation because I was bored and waiting for work to come in. Now I'm not bored. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 APB, When football season ends I inevitably come over to Tailgate to talk among fellow football fans about any number of issues because I enjoy the conversation it allows. Yeah, I care about what you have to say. It is compelling to me to witness a person who actually believes what you appear to believe. That you lied is without question. With hope that won't be an ongoing thing. With hope you see I'm able to catch that type of manipulative tactic and call you on it and it won't be worth it to you in the future to tell a falsehood in a conversation with me because it causes you to fall short on points in that conversation. But, that's neither here nor there. I'm not holding your lack of honesty in this thread against you unless you think I should. I assume you don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 APB...why does "your ilk" continually return to the same well? in as much as we might might not know much about you, or even care too, it's pretty certain you know next to nothing about Art, or me or anyone else on this board. For example, you don't have a friggin clue how much I donate to charities, or which charities I donate to, each year. you seize on one example, and, condescendingly question another person's empathetic and supererogatory capacities. ok....let's get out what you really seem to want to hear...what a great guy you are.....here's a cyber pat on the back for helping out those down on their luck. too bad you can't take solace and satisfaction in the act itself but rather have to use it as an anvil for hammering other folks. you seem to imply that in the aggregate nothing has been done or is being done for these folks......a flat out falsehood. now, if you were to argue that these folks are in extreme circumstances and need emergency support...go for it...start a web site...collect donations yourself....do something postive rather than lecture us. i have done volunteer work at Childrens Hospitals in the past, so spare me the usual ad hominem ripostes. As for Art's other notion vis being "rich"......it is a matter of perspective and circumstances, of course.....depending on where one falls in the scheme of things. if your wife suffers from cancer, this income may not be enough and you may be destitute anyway. Art is right to point out that earning $100k a year does not qualify one as rich. you are clearly better off than the bloke making $30k a year, but you aren't Andrew carnegie either. it obviously disturbs a lot of folks, but as one does better in life, one's style of life also improves. now we can have arguments over gross consumption, but $100k, especially after fed/state & local taxes doesn't rate rich when one tosses in the mortgage, kids in college, the spousal unit's Spiegal's debts, etc. You are better off - and that is nothing to be ashamed of or discouraged. but you aren't rich. Rich is La Jolla. Rich is Bel Air. Rich is behind iron bars on the ocean front. Rich is paying $100k in taxes! and....since I happen to have been anointed the resident evil right winger on this board, perhaps some of the more enlightened could bestow upon me their blessed truths: I don't get it.....why is it that if a conservative doesn't believe in contributing to every charity or baying at the moon about every social inequity he is a callous, selfish, greedy lout? yet, if a conservative questions why a liberal feels no obligation for himself/hersoelf or his children to serve in the armed forces (secure the COLLECTIVE defense), it suddenly becomes a matter of free choice and competing alternatives of proportionate social value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackC Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 Black Churches arent burning, women arent dying in back alley abortions, and the elderly haven't lost their medicair payments. Come on GOP get going. Time will tell the story Kilmer and 3 hours ain't enough time to mess anything up even for the evil GOP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 8, 2003 Author Share Posted January 8, 2003 24 hours old and nothing yet. Maybe we should have a running clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackC Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 24 hours old and nothing yet. Maybe we should have a running clock. Sure but you will have to let the progressives here let you know when it begins because some others wouldn't notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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