I'm sure you guys have already covered this, but what's Davis' cap hit if released

[scottb]

...before or after June 1. Thanks

[The Evil Genius]

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19733&highlight=Davis

Try that - it looks like it will be somewhere around 5-6 mil if released after June 1 - with a delayed hit of 5 mil or so next next year (2004).

If before June 1 - then I think the cap hit is almost as much as he is scheduled to make now - not 100% sure on that.

[laurent]

His total cap number for 2003 would be $11 million. If released before the June deadline the cap hit we will take is $5.4 million. At least that's the way I understand it.

[scottb]

That is insane. I can't believe we couldn't rework a two year deal for the same (or even less) money. At least we could get something for the dough.

[goldenster95]

Davis' cap number this year is about $11.4 million . . . cap numbers for a player are a combination of base salary, unamortized signing bonus money, reporting/roster bonuses, and incentives likely to be earned . . .

For 2003, Davis' cap number consists of $7.5 million in base salary, $2.5 million in a reporting bonus, and about $1.45 in unamortized signing bonus money for 2003 . . . add all those numbers up and you get $11.45 million cap number . . .

When you cut a player prior to June 1, which will probably happen since Davis' reporting bonus is due before then, a team must account for all unamortized signing bonus money . . . in Davis' case, that's about $6.4 million (according to some reliable sources) . . .

That's the cap "hit" we take . . . in order to determine whether or not we take a "net" cap hit or savings, you subtract the unamortized signing bonus money from the cap number . . . in this case this means subtracting $6.4 million from $11.4 million . . . because that figure is a positive number, we end up with a savings of around $5 million . . .

[The Evil Genius]

Does anyone know if the $6.4 mil in unamortized signing bonus includes the $2.5 in reporting bonus?

Because, according to the NFLPA - the reporting bonus is considered the same as a signing bonus for that year.

So if Davis is released pre June 1- what would be the cap hit - the 2.5+ the unamortized signing bonus acceleration right?

[The Evil Genius]

Page 103 of the CBA...

(iv) Amounts Treated as Signing Bonuses. For purposes of determining Team Salary under the foregoing, the term “signing bonus” shall include:

(1) Any amount specifically described in a Player Contract as a signing bonus;

(2) Any guaranteed reporting bonus;

(3) Any consideration, when paid, or guaranteed, for option years, contract extensions, contract modifications, or individually negotiated rights of first refusal;

(4) Any option buyout amount, when paid or guaranteed; and

(5) In the event that a Player Contract calls for a Salary in the second year of such Contract that is less than half the Salary called for in the first year of such Contract, the difference between the Salary in the second contract year and the first contract year shall be treated as a signing bonus.

[goldenster95]

Originally posted by The Evil Genius

Does anyone know if the $6.4 mil in unamortized signing bonus includes the $2.5 in reporting bonus?

Because, according to the NFLPA - the reporting bonus is considered the same as a signing bonus for that year.

So if Davis is released pre June 1- what would be the cap hit - the 2.5+ the unamortized signing bonus acceleration right?

No. Reporting or roster bonuses are not considered part of an unamortized signing bonus. Unlike a signing bonus, reporting/roster bonuses are contingent on future events, just like incentives are. Because of this, they get wiped off the books if you cut someone before they come due.

Example: The Saints owed Jeff Blake a fat roster bonus (something like $2 million) a day or two after the free agency period opened up in 2002. While the Saints wanted to hold on to Blake in hopes of trading him, they'd have to pay his bloated bonus to do that. Thus, they ended up cutting him right after the free agency period opened up.

[goldenster95]

Originally posted by The Evil Genius

Page 103 of the CBA...

(2) Any guaranteed reporting bonus;

That's not really a reporting bonus. The key word there is "guaranteed."

The "guaranteed" nature of that "reporting" bonus makes it nothing different than a signing bonus other than the fact that its payment is deferred until another time.

The flip side of this is a two-tiered signing bonus. This happens when a team wants to defer the decision to pay a bonus -- not defer payment of it -- like the 'Boys are doing with Kevin Hardy or the Rams with Kurt Warner (though I'm not sure of the specifics of those contracts). I.e., the contract calls for an immediate payment of $X in 2002 and allows the team to, if it wants to retain the player's services in 2003, to pay $Y in signing bonus money that year. In such a case, the sigining bonus has not been paid and is not guaranteed, making it much like a true reporting bonus.

[The Evil Genius]

Thanks for clearing up the confusion - if Davis's release "only" costs this year ( I mean 2003 and no cap hit after 2003) and it "saves" 5 mil - then it seems like a wise move.

No way should a RB cost 11 mil cap hit for gaining roughly 70 yards a game.

[goldenster95]

Originally posted by The Evil Genius

Thanks for clearing up the confusion - if Davis's release "only" costs this year ( I mean 2003 and no cap hit after 2003) and it "saves" 5 mil - then it seems like a wise move.

No way should a RB cost 11 mil cap hit for gaining roughly 70 yards a game.

No problem. But it just svcks to see another cornerstone leave. Especially the good guy that Davis is. Also, he might only have average 70 yards a game, but he ended up softening defenses and keeping them honest.

But you're right. $11.4 million in cap money is just too damn much.

Good luck, Stephen.

[JimboDaMan]

Keep in mind that nobody else will pay Davis $11 million either, and Stephen obviously knows that. He will be had by somebody for substantially less. The question is whether we, given his current production, the type of offense Spurrier runs, and the two other guys we're trying out, are willing to pay what it would take to keep him. It would appear not.

[Larry]

Note about numbers: The pages I've seen say Davis' pro-rated signing bunus if almost exactly $1.5M/year, and that he's got 5 years left. Since (as far as I know) the bonus is always divided equally among the entire length of the contract, (or the remaining contract, if it's re-negotiated), that tells me that Davis represents $7.5M in dead money that's got to be accounted for, somehow. If cut before June 1st, that whole amount counts in '03. If he plays next year, $1.5 of that counts against the '03 cap, and the time bomb gets smaller by the same amount.

Where this also gets interesting is if you start thinking about alternatives:

Davis, under his current contract, is due to count $11.5 against the cap, and $10M if that (expected amount) is real money (he's due to receive this year). He's unlikely to get that much real money elsewhere (although another team could offer, say, an $8M signing bonus, get him almost the same money, and take much less cap hit untill later). This means the $11.5 number can be easily negotiated. (Unless Davis simply has a personal problem and wants to leave: If the Skins offer him a 50% pay cut, he's still not certain to get better money elsewhere, but he may want to leave).

If the Skins were to offer, say, a reporting bonus of $2.5M (already in the contract), and a salary of $1.5, then Davis gets $4M in real money (which he will likely get elsewhere), and $2.5 of it is guaranteed (if he gets injured week 1 he still gets the full reporting bonus). His cap hit, if he stays is $1.5M (this years share of his signing bonus) plus whatever we actually pay him this year. (In this example, $4M real money: total cap hit $5.5).

In short, we can pay him $4-5M next year and the cap hit is less than if we fire him.

(Drawback: if we pay him $4M, then in '04 we still have $5M of dead money to deal with. (Better than $7.5, but it doesn't just go away, either). The amount of eventual dead money, in this scenario, only goes down by the $1.5M that got counted in '03. His contract is a cap time bomb: the only ways to get rid of it are time, or grit your teeth and pull the trigger.)