PFW: Whispers NFC East

[ArmchairRedskin]

Didn't he play outside at the end of last year though? Isn't he being moved back inside?

[ArmchairRedskin]

BTW, what's up with Fasano? I though the Cowboys were gonna have this great two TE set that nobody could stop? I haven't heard a thing about that dude since last offseason

[Tom [Giants fan]]

William's James' problem has always been health related. He is a very good CB but who knows how long his career will last with that back of his.

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

Um.... Right. He played better than Smoot did last year, he was a consistent starter when healthy for the giants, and he is big and physical. Macklin is washed up, Rogers is potential, Butler is decent.

How exactly is Macklin washed up? The guy is only 29 years old and has only missed 2 games in his 8 year career.

How is James better than Smoot? Smoot actually started for a team in the last two years. He made some interceptions and broke up some passes while James has 5 picks in his 7 year career and non in the last 2.

True Rogers has potential, but he also is decent right now. James isn't decent right now and he has no potential.

James on the other hand has played 5 games in the last 2 years, when he was a starter he did not play up to par with either Macklin, Smoot, or Rogers.

James is a scrub at best. He has a massive injury history and he was never particularly good when healthy. He may be a servicable nickle back but he will never be anything more than that again.

[OWUeagleMD]

Carpenter is entering his second season as a backup! No he's not a bust, but when a team running a 3-4 drafts a LB in the first round, they aren't looking for him to be a backup.

McIntosh, a second round pick, is listed as a starter on most depth charts! :2cents:

Broderick Bunkley is listed as a starter for the Eagles right now too. I'm going to wait to see him produce before I let myself taste satisfaction.

[OWUeagleMD]

James on the other hand has played 5 games in the last 2 years, when he was a starter he did not play up to par with either Macklin, Smoot, or Rogers.

When James was a starter he was better than Macklin, Smoot and Rogers, and he was so by a pretty significant margin.

To expect James to be fully healthy at any point in the future is fairly preposterous, since most expected his injuries to force retirement two years ago, but that doesn't change what he was.

It sounds like you only watch Redskins games and have little to no interest in the happening of the rest of the league.

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

When James was a starter he was better than Macklin, Smoot and Rogers, and he was so by a pretty significant margin.

To expect James to be fully healthy at any point in the future is fairly preposterous, since most expected his injuries to force retirement two years ago, but that doesn't change what he was.

It sounds like you only watch Redskins games and have little to no interest in the happening of the rest of the league.

James has never had more than 11 passes broken up nor 2 picks in a season. He has 5 picks and 27 passes broken up in 7 years.

Smoot has 19 picks and 43 passes broken up in 7 years. He also frequently gets 4-5 picks in a year

Macklin has 14 picks in 8 years and 60 passes broken up.

Rogers has 3 picks and 18 passes broken up in 2 years.

Butler is the only player in the equation that is comprable to James in lack of production. Both James and Butler each had a pair of good seasons and have been nobodies the last 2.

While I will more than admit that Smoot, Macklin and Butler are not the same players they were a couple years ago, but neither is James. However, Smoot and Macklin were better than James when they were up to snuff and Rogers is better and younger.

[OWUeagleMD]

I would say that it is pretty obvious that your statistics are irrelevant. For one, we've already established that any ability or potential James has is tempered by the fact that he never has nor will be fully healthy. For another, statistics will never be indicative of production for a defensive back.

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

I would say that it is pretty obvious that your statistics are irrelevant. For one, we've already established that any ability or potential James has is tempered by the fact that he never has nor will be fully healthy. For another, statistics will never be indicative of production for a defensive back.

Well if we are going to throw away on-field production as a measure of play at CB and fully discount logic then I would like to put Ade Jimoh's name into the hat for best CB of all time. (doesn't make sense does it?)

Fact is James has never had a particluarly productive season. He has never batted down more than 11 passes in a year he has never had 3 picks in a season even when healthy.

In '04 James' best season, opponents connected on 62.5% of their passes against the Giants making them 6th worst in the league that year. I have a sneaky suspiscion that a few of those went against James. Why do I suspeect that, because he wasn't batting down passes or picking them off giving no reason for QBs to avoid him.

INTs combined with passes deflected can show a great deal about how a CB plays. If a CB has a number of picks, they are likely to have fewer PDs because QBs avoid them. If they have low numbers for both yet still have 60-70 tackles it indicates that they are far from shut-down corners instead letting WRs make catches then dragging them down.

Statistics do not tell the whole story of how a CB plays, but they are very indicative of the range of production coming from a player, and James has a very low range.

Furthermore you can't dscount injuries when debating who is the better player. It is hard to outplay your opponent from the bench so it must be factored in. On top of that it is ridiculous to think that he will be coming back at 110% when he can't manage to take 50% of the snaps.

[tr1]

Carpenters last 3-5 games last year he really performed well. In the playoff game against Seattle he had a great game.

He's coming around, and I expect him to be the starter this year.

The article just said he's sunk on the depth chart.... :doh:

Can we please have a reality check?

Man.

[ptr77]

How exactly is Macklin washed up? The guy is only 29 years old and has only missed 2 games in his 8 year career.

How is James better than Smoot? Smoot actually started for a team in the last two years. He made some interceptions and broke up some passes while James has 5 picks in his 7 year career and non in the last 2.

True Rogers has potential, but he also is decent right now. James isn't decent right now and he has no potential.

James on the other hand has played 5 games in the last 2 years, when he was a starter he did not play up to par with either Macklin, Smoot, or Rogers.

James is a scrub at best. He has a massive injury history and he was never particularly good when healthy. He may be a servicable nickle back but he will never be anything more than that again.

Macklin is washed up because he isn't starter material anymore, age is not part of the equation, talent is. 4 PD and 1 int last year, for the CARDINALS, did he even play nickel?

Smoot blew last year, like burnt for a bajillion yards blew. Your stats will never show how many yards the guy gave up or where on the field the tackles were (3 yards or 30 yards). Heck do you even know who gave up more TDs? Since you discount his injuries i guess he probably gave up a lot less TDs. A guy who takes big risks can get more ints and PD and give up way more yards, and a shut down guy can have bad stats because no throws go his way. Rogers is a decent nickel right now, he is not proven as a starter but has the potential to be. James was a starter in this league and was better than his partner Will Allen (who starts for the dolphins now). This reminds me of the overrating of rumph, wright, and rogers last year, some people don't remember last offseason i guess...

[ptr77]

Well if we are going to throw away on-field production as a measure of play at CB and fully discount logic then I would like to put Ade Jimoh's name into the hat for best CB of all time. (doesn't make sense does it?)

Fact is James has never had a particluarly productive season. He has never batted down more than 11 passes in a year he has never had 3 picks in a season even when healthy.

In '04 James' best season, opponents connected on 62.5% of their passes against the Giants making them 6th worst in the league that year. I have a sneaky suspiscion that a few of those went against James. Why do I suspeect that, because he wasn't batting down passes or picking them off giving no reason for QBs to avoid him.

INTs combined with passes deflected can show a great deal about how a CB plays. If a CB has a number of picks, they are likely to have fewer PDs because QBs avoid them. If they have low numbers for both yet still have 60-70 tackles it indicates that they are far from shut-down corners instead letting WRs make catches then dragging them down.

Statistics do not tell the whole story of how a CB plays, but they are very indicative of the range of production coming from a player, and James has a very low range.

Furthermore you can't dscount injuries when debating who is the better player. It is hard to outplay your opponent from the bench so it must be factored in. On top of that it is ridiculous to think that he will be coming back at 110% when he can't manage to take 50% of the snaps.

Walt Harris is apparently a shut down corner according to you. Low tackle number, high ints, but also high PDs.

And Ronde Barber sucks because he had almost 100 tackles.

Stats don't tell the whole story, especially with DBs. Guys on here last year threw out stats about Arch's huge tackle numbers, but he sucked and we all knew it.

[DWinzit]

Broderick Bunkley is listed as a starter for the Eagles right now too. I'm going to wait to see him produce before I let myself taste satisfaction.

I don't blame you. Similar to Carpenter, Bunkley has a lot to prove this season. It sounds like he has taken the right off season attitude, so may come up with a big year. Adding Reagor and Scott may be the push Bunkley needs.

Rocky showed he deserves a starting roll at the end of last season. The Redskins addition by subtraction of Dale Lindsey and Warrick Holdman only helps his position.

[taylorcoreskin]

Walt Harris is apparently a shut down corner according to you. Low tackle number, high ints, but also high PDs.

And Ronde Barber sucks because he had almost 100 tackles.

Stats don't tell the whole story, especially with DBs. Guys on here last year threw out stats about Arch's huge tackle numbers, but he sucked and we all knew it.

Didn't you get the memo? Walt Harris IS a shutdown corner. :laugh:

[ptr77]

Didn't you get the memo? Walt Harris IS a shutdown corner. :laugh:

Lol. I hate how so many people look at interceptions and say "he is awesome." Just because a guy catches well does not make him a great corner. Walt and the 49ers were burned a lot, but Walt made them pay every so often.

[taylorcoreskin]

Lol. I hate how so many people look at interceptions and say "he is awesome." Just because a guy catches well does not make him a great corner. Walt and the 49ers were burned a lot, but Walt made them pay every so often.

Whenever I hear Walt Harris I relive the 05 tampa game, in which Gallaway had his way with Harris in the closing seconds.

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

Walt Harris is apparently a shut down corner according to you. Low tackle number, high ints, but also high PDs.

And Ronde Barber sucks because he had almost 100 tackles.

Stats don't tell the whole story, especially with DBs. Guys on here last year threw out stats about Arch's huge tackle numbers, but he sucked and we all knew it.

True, stats do not tell the whole story, but they are part of the story. Simple fact of the matter is that James has never had an exceptional season. His best season he didn't knock down many balls and he only got 2 picks. Don't forget in James career he has only had 2 seasons in which he lasted 16 games. Neither one of those years was he an exceptional player.

And Walt Harris had an excellent year last year, not a shut down CB by any means but he played very well and is far better than James.

Macklin is washed up because he isn't starter material anymore, age is not part of the equation, talent is. 4 PD and 1 int last year, for the CARDINALS, did he even play nickel?

Smoot blew last year, like burnt for a bajillion yards blew. Your stats will never show how many yards the guy gave up or where on the field the tackles were (3 yards or 30 yards). Heck do you even know who gave up more TDs? Since you discount his injuries i guess he probably gave up a lot less TDs. A guy who takes big risks can get more ints and PD and give up way more yards, and a shut down guy can have bad stats because no throws go his way. Rogers is a decent nickel right now, he is not proven as a starter but has the potential to be. James was a starter in this league and was better than his partner Will Allen (who starts for the dolphins now). This reminds me of the overrating of rumph, wright, and rogers last year, some people don't remember last offseason i guess...

How is Macklin washed up as non-starter material when he has started more games than James in the last 2 years? Macklin is certainly not a #1 or 2 CB, but the last time James was a #1 or 2 was two years ago. Macklin gets the edge in that one.

Same goes for Smoot, while he was certainly not the same player in Minny as he was here in DC, he has at least been able to step onto the football field and play.

It is absolutely ridiculous that yall are claiming that James is a superior player BECAUSE he has been injured. Like I stated before, last time James was a full-time starter the Giants were 6th worst in the league for defensive completion percentage, this is despite having an exceptional pass rush that year giving more freedom to the CBs.

But Logic be Damned!!! James hasn't seen legitimate action in 2 years, he was average at best when he started, but I bet all that game tape he has been watching (because h sure as heck wasn't practicing) has turned him into a superstar.

[Westbrook36]

RIDETHEWALRUS, James is the superior player because the rest of us in this thread have eyes; we have watched the three players you keep talking about. You can spin it all you want, but James is the better of the three. Smoot signing a huge deal and getting benched; Macklin getting shooed out of Arizona....come on man. :laugh:

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

RIDETHEWALRUS, James is the superior player because the rest of us in this thread have eyes; we have watched the three players you keep talking about. You can spin it all you want, but James is the better of the three. Smoot signing a huge deal and getting benched; Macklin getting shooed out of Arizona....come on man. :laugh:

So you have been watching Macklin, Rogers and Smoot religously? I mean if you are telling me yu have been closely following the careers of these players and my arguments are thus false then I guess I must be wrong, but I am going to go out on a limb here and say you have probably seen as much of each of these players as I have. On top of that, we really don't need to have eyes to see what James has done lately, a deaf, blind, mute could have seen as much of James on the field as any of us over the last two years.

You want to talk about who is better, put forth an argument. I know you are not overly familiar with them, but the trick is to include supporting evidence (and a shirtless pic doesn't count:D).

[jrockster21]

Westbrook watches every game in the NFL every week like 4 times. Use the search function, he's said that before.