Yomar Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Eric Steinbach War Room analysis Strengths: Is a terrific athlete. Is a former tight end with good height and frame to add bulk. Shows quick footwork. Is mobile, and can pull and trap. Has good balance and body control in the open field. Does a good job of reaching the second level of the defense, and adjusting on the move. Mirrors and slides well with defenders in pass protection. Bends knees well, and has outstanding lateral quickness. Has a lot of upside because of athleticism. Should put up impressive postseason workout numbers. Weaknesses: Isn't durable -- has missed significant time with ankle and shoulder problems. Lacks ideal size. Has trouble keeping weight on; has a lean frame. Lacks ideal lower-body strength. Has trouble holding his ground against bull rushers. Is overwhelmed by big, physical defensive tackles. Rarely out-muscles defensive tackles in the running game, and does not have the lower-body strength or body mass to create a surge at times. Bottom line: Steinbach is the most intriguing guard prospect in this class. He started his career as a tight end in '98 and moved to guard in '99. Durability is his biggest problem because he has missed 12 games because of injuries. The other major concern is his lack of bulk. He has, however, stayed healthy as a senior and is the best athlete -- by far -- in this '03 guard class. Because of his lean frame and athleticism, Steinbach could be moved to tackle in the NFL. He certainly would increase his draft stock if able to show promise as a tackle in postseason workouts. Right now, Steinbach is one of the top three guard prospects and looks to be a good fit in the second round. Vince Manuwai War Room analysis Strengths: Has great footwork for a guard. Has adequate bulk and excellent upper-body strength. Plays with good leverage. Gets great initial pop. Does a nice job of staying balanced, and shuffles well laterally. Mirrors-and-slides well with pass rushers. Has a great feel for stunts/blitzes, and doesn't overextend upper body in pass protection. Also is a powerful run blocker. Takes good angles, and has adequate lower-body strength. Works to sustain blocks, and keeps feet moving. Is durable and consistent. Weaknesses: Lacks great height, and is not the typical run-blocking mauling guard. Is not overwhelming at the point of attack, and must be in good position to sustain run blocks. Gets overmatched at times by big defensive tackles, and that could become a more consistent problem in the NFL. Bottom line: Manuwai is unusual -- an undersized guard with terrific footwork and pass-protection skills. He is on the short side and continues to add bulk, which is why he best fits at guard in the NFL. Manuwai should be selected somewhere between the late first round and the middle of the second round. Torrin Tucker War Room analysis Strengths: Has excellent size and strength. Has the size of an offensive tackle. Has a long wingspan and good initial pop. Has a strong upper body, and does an outstanding job of maintaining separation in pass protection. Uses long, strong arms well, and makes up for less-than-ideal footwork with a powerful punch move. Is a powerful run blocker; has great size and strength at the point of attack. Is aggressive, and has a mean streak. Works to the whistle, and drives legs. Is at his best inside in pass protection. Pulls and traps well. Has good body control, and hits moving targets in the open field. Weaknesses: Lacks ideal quickness and lateral movement. Is much better running forward than shuffling laterally or backwards. Does not mirror-and-slide well enough with pass rushers to move outside to offensive tackle. Has trouble getting a deep set in pass protection against quick defensive tackles. Has had some trouble controlling his temper, and scouts say he is somewhat of an immature person. Bottom line: Tucker is one of the top guard prospects and should be selected on Day 1. He has tremendous size and the measurable skills to play tackle but, because of subpar lateral movement, is a much better fit at guard. Derrick Dockery War Room analysis Strengths: Is a massive, mauling interior lineman. Is versatile; can play guard or tackle. Is better inside where he is protected. Rarely loses one-on-one matchups in the running game if in position. Is an ideal for a power-running team. Has excellent strength and size. Engulfs defenders at the point of attack. Uses long arms and massive size to maintain separation in pass protection. Weaknesses: Gets overweight and sluggish, and tends to wear down late in games. Has poor footwork, and lacks agility. Has trouble when asked to reach and block linebackers in the running game. Struggles to block moving targets. Is top heavy, and does not always play with good balance. Has trouble against quick defensive tackles in pas protection. Struggle to change directions against blitzes and stunts. Bottom line: Dockery has great experience and can play guard and tackle. He is massive and a mauler in the running game. He is not a good fit at tackle in the NFL because of his lack of agility and poor footwork. Dockery is one of the better interior line prospects, but his poor footwork and marginal speed limits his potential as a downfield blocker. Dockery is one of the top five guard prospects but probably won't go any higher than the middle of Round 2. Montrae Holland War Room analysis Strengths: Is squatty with great bulk and power. Can be overpowering at the point of attack in the running game. Pushes the pile, and drives legs through the whistle. Has good lower- and upper-body strength. Is aggressive, and plays with a mean streak. Shows adequate footwork in short spaces. Holds his ground against bull rushers. Wins almost every battle in the passing game once locked onto defender. Weaknesses: Lacks ideal height. Does not have great speed or athleticism. Has some trouble blocking in the open field. Struggle at times to hit moving targets in the running game. Also has trouble changing directions to pickup blitzes and stunts in the passing game. Needs to improve footwork. Bottom line: Holland has good bulk, strength and power. He is not the most mobile of guards and lacks ideal height, but he is a mauler in the running game and is adequate in the short area in the passing game Al Johnson War Room analysis Strengths: Is technically sound and has a great feel for his assignments and the offense's line calls. Moves well laterally, can hit the moving target and does a good job of getting in position and sustaining blocks. Has good body control and rarely overextends. Has a quick set in pass protection and is at his best when uncovered and able to shuffle to help his guards pick up the blitz. Weaknesses: Does not have great size or overall strength at the point of attack. Struggles to anchor the bull rush. Has some trouble against bigger nose tackles head-to-head or defensive tackles on his right or left. Is tough and efficient in the run game but not overpowering. Bottom line: Johnson, a cousin of teammate offensive tackle Ben Johnson, is the top center prospect in the nation. He is a durable, consistent center with good size and quickness. He is neither the biggest nor the most overpowering center prospect in the nation, but he is efficient and finishes his blocks. He should be the first center taken in the draft, likely in the second round. Wayne Lucier War Room analysis Strengths: Is able to reach the second level and hit the moving target. Is feisty, with a strong upper body. Is a fist-fighter type who will get good positioning and use his hands and upper-body strength to win battles at the point of attack. Has adequate lateral movement in pass protection. Does a nice job of making line calls, getting in position and helping out his guards. Weaknesses: Is somewhat undersized. Will have some trouble against bigger nose tackles. Lacks lower-body strength and the base to anchor vs. the bull rush. Has also had some durability problems in the past. Bottom line: Has had some injury trouble and also transferred from Northwestern to Colorado in the spring of 2000. Settled in as the starting center in 2001 and has started at center and guard for the Buffs as a senior. Versatility will only help his draft value. Is one of the top three center prospects and is likely to be drafted somewhere between the second and third rounds. Dan Koppen War Room analysis Strengths: Is an intelligent player with good intangibles, experience and technique. Will generally take good angles in to his blocks in the run game. Has a strong upper body and adequate lower body strength. Is tough and feisty; fights to finish his blocks. Is more of a fist-fighter type than a mauler. Picks up stunts and blitzes well and also helps out his guards. Is the leader of the line and has a great grasp for the offense. Weaknesses: Lacks ideal quickness, speed and agility for a center. Will have most trouble versus one-gap defensive tackles and nosetakcles. Has some trouble in space. Is inconsistent at hitting the moving target. Will struggle at times to change directions in pass protection vs. top defenders. Will not overpower many defensive tackles. Needs to take great angles in order to consistently get into position to make his blocks. Bottom line: Koppen has started three full seasons at center for the Eagles. He has good size, is intelligent and has become a consistent blocker in both the running and passing games. Koppen is not the quickest or most athletic prospect and he won't overpower defenders at the point of attack, but he has a good enough combination or natural tools, experience and leadership to earn a second- or third-round grade Brett Romberg War Room analysis Strengths: Has played center, guard and tackle but has been the full-time starter at center for the last two seasons. Has good short area quickness and comes out of his stance with leverage. Can slide vertically and shows the consistent ability to shuffle to help his guards. Has a quick, strong upper body; is a fist-fighter with a great motor and a mean streak. Takes good angles to his run blocks. Has adequate lower body strength and works to sustain his blocks. Is technically sound and rarely makes mental mistakes. Weaknesses: Is not the most gifted center in this class in terms of his size and natural tools. Is not a massive mauler in the run game and will need to win more with angles, technique and toughness. Also lacks ideal mobility and athleticism. Is much better in the short area than he is when forced to reach the second level to chip a linebacker in the run game. He's somewhat of an overachiever who could have some trouble adjusting to the size and speed of the NFL game. Bottom line: Is a bit undersized but makes up for it. Is quick, feisty and intelligent. Has been the leader of Miami's line for the past three years and has a tremendous understanding for the position, as well as the line calls he has to make. Is not an ideal athlete but moves well enough to get in good position and is extremely efficient overall. Is one of the top-five center prospects and should go somewhere between the third and fourth rounds. Jordan Gross War Room analysis Strengths: Has adequate size and is a punishing blocker at the point of attack. Has excellent hip explosion and plays with good leverage. Has the lower-body strength to drive though run blocks. Has good initial pop and excels at sustaining blocks. Has good mobility and can consistently reach the second level. Has good footwork. Has a quick set in pass protection, plays with balance and can anchor against the bull rush. Weaknesses: Lacks ideal height and bulk for an NFL tackle. Has quick feet and good balance, but he does not have great speed in his set. He will have some trouble versus elite speed rushers. Might have to play right tackle. Bottom line: Gross is quick and he plays under control, but if he has a weakness it is that he lacks exceptional feet. Gross is a dominating blocker when he locks on -- he squats 550 pounds and bench presses 395 pounds. A black belt in Tae kwon do, Gross also has good balance, coordination and hands. He has emerged as the No. 1 offensive tackle prospect as a senior. Jon Stinchcomb War Room analysis Strengths: Is a tall, athletic tackle with great experience. Has very good technique. Bends at his knees and plays with very good leverage. Stays balance in pass pro and has a very quick set. Uses long arms to force a wide arc and shows the consistent ability to mirror and slide with the top pass rushers that he's faced. He's more of a position and wall off run blocker, but is very efficient. Has good upper-body strength and is able to control most one-on-one matchups. Weaknesses: Durability is a minor concern after knee injury as a senior. Will need to put on weight and improve his overall strength before he's ready to start. Has trouble moving some bigger defensive ends in the running game. Does not have a great base and struggles to anchor versus top bull rushers. Is not overwhelming at the point of attack. Bottom line: Stinchcomb comes from the right family. Brother Matt Stinchcomb (Raiders) also was a standout OT at Georgia. Jon has more upside than Matt, but he still has to add bulk and strength to his frame. Jon is, however, savvy, tough and is a very good athlete. He projects as a left tackle and should be one of the first two or three tackles taken in the draft -- somewhere in the latter half of the first round. George Foster War Room analysis Strengths: Has very good size and overall strength. Also shows good initial pop and upper-body power. He has a long wingspan and does a good job of using it to keep separation and force a wide arc in pass pro. Will control most one-on-one matchups when he locks on. Shows body control in pass pro and will rarely overextend. He has a quick set in pass pro and shows the lateral mobility to mirror and slide. Is a good athlete for his size. Weaknesses: Has limited experience and has had trouble staying healthy. Lacks ideal technique. Plays too high at times and will lose his base. Still needs to improve overall lower-body strength. First step is inconsistent, and he does not always show a great feel for assignments or angles. Bottom line: Foster has great upside, but he's also a risk. He has limited playing experience because of injury. Foster did not start until his 2001 season and missed three games that year because of a right ankle injury. He then dislocated his right wrist in a car accident in early August and missed games as a senior. He finished the regular season playing in a three-tackle rotation with a club on his hand. Foster has good size and impressive physical tools when he's healthy. He has a great wingspan, good balance and a strong upper body. He could either tackle position. But Foster still needs time to develop his lower-body strength and technique, and he could need a full year as a backup in the NFL before contributing. Brett Williams War Room analysis Strengths: Is a massive, strong and physically gifted tackle. Great wingspan in the passing game. Does a nice job of forcing defensive ends to take a wide arc in pass pro. Has good initial pop and will knock defensive ends off their feet. Will engulf many defenders when he locks on. Has adequate feet and is a tactician. Takes good angles and does a great job of getting into position. Has excellent size, upper-body strength and overall bulk in the run game. Will really dominate the point of attack when he gets in good position. Plays under control in pass pro and is very efficient in that area considering his lack of ideal mobility. Weaknesses: Durability (knees) is a concern. Does not have great overall feet. Will look sluggish and stiff at times. Will occasionally have trouble getting back inside versus double move in pass rush. Does not have great hip explosion -- he's more of a position, punch and engulf blocker than he is a leg-driving finisher. Bottom line: Williams is a massive tackle with great upper-body power and the ability to dominate most one-on-one matchups in the run game. But Williams is a bit overrated in terms of his physical skills. He is extremely efficient at the college level. He plays with balance, good hand punch and great positioning. He also has terrific size and adequate initial quickness. But he can look stiff in space at times, he lacks great lower body strength to drive his blocks, and he's had some durability problems - missed six games with knee and ankle injuries from 2000-01. Williams might have to move to right tackle in the NFL, and he'll have to check out physically in order to maintain his second-round grade Steve Sciullo War Room analysis Strengths: Has great size and strength. Is strong at the point of attack. Has good initial pop in pass pro. Excels at finishing once he is locked on. Has a long wingspan and forces a wide arc. Has the base to handle the bull rush. Can be overwhelming as a run blocker and engulf ends. Takes good angles and is a mechanically sound run blocker. Has a mean streak and fights to finish his blocks. Weaknesses: Lacks ideal agility. Does not have great footwork, but he got away with it in the MAC. Struggles moving laterally. Has some trouble getting back inside against double moves. Has marginal speed and will struggle to reach his downfield run blocks in the NFL. Bottom line: He has very good size, technique and strength. Sciullo has been a dominant run blocker and a very efficient pass protector, but he is not athletic enough to play left tackle in the NFL. He lacks ideal quickness and lateral movement, which will cause him to slip on draft day. Sciullo still is a solid first-day prospect and has the potential to become a quality starter at right tackle if he continues to improve his footwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMADD Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I'd love to see us maneuver into position to pick up both Manuwai and Dockery. They'll both be early second-round picks, so we have a good shot at getting one of them. Now we need to find another second-round pick for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMADD Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 It's fascinating that everyone replies to the WR thread, and this one is empty. Our greatest need is the OL! Charlie Rogers can kiss my ***. We need some big mean Hogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathByLinebacker Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I think many of us that follow college football pretty closely just know more about the prospects at other positions than we do about offensive linemen. I know I do. I'm not even sure what school some of those guys are from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted December 16, 2002 Author Share Posted December 16, 2002 Originally posted by DeathByLinebacker I think many of us that follow college football pretty closely just know more about the prospects at other positions than we do about offensive linemen. I know I do. I'm not even sure what school some of those guys are from. My bad, here you go, keep a look out for them during Bowl Week Guards: Eric Steinbach, Iowa 6-6 290 Vince Manuwai, Hawaii 6-2 301 Torrin Tucker, So. Miss. 6-5 316 Derrick Dockery, Texas 6-5 355 Montrae Holland, Florida St. 6-1 325 Center: Al Johnson, Wis. 6-4 298 Wayne Lucier, Colorado 6-3 288 Dan Koppen, Boston Coll. 6-2 298 Brett Romberg, Miami (FL) 6-2 290 Tackle: 1 Jordan Gross, Utah 6-4 305 Jon Stinchcomb, Georgia 6-4 285 George Foster, Georgia 6-4 317 Brett Williams, Florida St. 6-5 312 Steve Sciullo, Marshall 6-5 319 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMADD Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I'm not sold on Steinbach because of his injury history. My favorites are Manuwai and Dockery. Manuwai is undersized, but he's a freak. Dockery is a huge mauler. My question for the real draftniks out there: would these two guys make good pass-blockers? I think the answer is YES, but is there any reason why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I agree that everything starts with the line and it is a huge need, but so is a gamebreaker. Take the best guard available in round 2 and the next best that slips to round 3 or 4, but if we can get a game breaking WR to pair with Ramsey's arm in Spurriers offense we have to do it. Not to would be a sin. This team has to be on a three year plan (this being year one). If so, we need to pair Ramsey with his go-to guy in year two so they can gell. Our O line can be upgraded again in next years draft for year three as well. One step at a time. But we need to assemble the playmakers now to have them ready to make a run two years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted December 16, 2002 Author Share Posted December 16, 2002 I understand the desire for a burner, but I still think Gardner could become special. He has put up some pretty nice numbers for a guy in his second year. Most WRs don't do so well early in their career. So while I think more speed at WR would be nice, I don't think we need a #1 guy...making yet another Cowboys analogy, we need an Alvin Harper to go along with Rod Gardner's Michael Irvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Looking at the descriptions, it doesn't appear that there is a real big time, can't miss talent at OG in this years draft. Manuwai and Johnson appear to be the closest and are the two that I'd target perhaps after making two trade downs in the first. As for WR, the fact is we really need another one....with some speed. If we can get Price or Boston for something less than a king's ransom that would allow us to concentrate on fixing our holes on both lines. I don't think it's an either/or proposition. We really must get better at all three areas if we're ever going to be anything more than mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Yomar, If you don't like the 'Girl analogy, try a Gary Clark-type to Gardner's Monk or better, a Charlie Brown-type (wouldn't it be nice if that Russell guy turns out?). Okay, Gardner is more of an Irvin-type but lets not use 'Girl analogies, right? :laugh: ------------------------ If possible, I'd like a playmaker DE and then go for Guards until the cows come home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted December 16, 2002 Author Share Posted December 16, 2002 thats perfect, we need a Gary Clark type, right you are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Yusuf, I agree with you. When reading their "weaknesses", the author makes it seem like they're not fit to wear shoulder pads. Stengths: .....A mauler who envelopes Defensive lineman...... Weaknesses: .......Has a tendancy to miss enveloping his assigned defensive man and falling forward onto his face. I think the Hawaii kid may be a tactician in terms of pass blocking, but I have to wonder about his run blocking considering Hawaii threw fifty times a game. Also, a question for the experts, is it the right guard that teams try to fill with a "road grader", and the LG to be the pure pass blocker? The Dockery kid seems like good value somewhere in the second. Gotta like anyone who's first line description states ... " a Massive, Mauling interior lineman" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montilar Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I'd love Manuwai (2cd) and romberg (3rd). There are three OL positions in need of improvement. Center is one of them. But dockery or torrin tucker could be worth the second also. Problem is Manuwai could easily go late first and probbly will be gone early second, even before the skins pick. Romberg is supposed to have a mean streak I thought. And a good center helps to make the line calls. Get Taucher or Collin in free agency. or maybe Rod Jones can come back and take a guard spot. Adding two quality OL prospects like Manuwai and Romberg with janson, Samuels and Jones would greatly solidify the OL. Especialy if the big free agent pick up is one of the better guards. Ramsey could really get notice with a solid line next year. ------------- Manuwai is supposed to be better at pass blocking. But somewhere I remember he has a huge number of pancake blocks. You generall don't get pancakes just pass blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 not saying this will be the case this year, but the top C from last year's draft, LeCharles Bentley, has been the best guard out of last year's class so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsanity56 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 i'd agree with taking a centre & sliding moore out to guard.he played both positions in IND. & was capable @ both positions.he would also serve as an excelllent backup for some much needed depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hauss Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Holland and Manuwai are very good and experienced pass blockers due the offensive schemes at FSU and Hawaii. FSU did run more this year. These scouting reports are always interesting--this knocks Hollands ability to pick up the stunts and blitzes. I have read another report where the scout thought Holland was excellent at this. Also, a couple of other guards that are moving up and will be in bowl games are Breedlove of Georgia and Richard of Texas Tech. I think we will sign a free agent guard and maybe draft a guard in the 4th round. I think the first 3 rounds will be devoted to a DL, WR and FS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNorth Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I like Holland the best out of the available OG prospects. The guy has played in numerous big games, against big time talent. IMO, he is very similar to Tre Johnson when he entered the league. The guy dominated the Cane DT's this past yr. I think he'll probably slide to the mid 2nd-3rd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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