Keith Olbermann: Special Comment; Democratic Compromise

[Chief skin]

Keith speaks the truth, and a lot of PEOPLE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH, THIS IS A DEMOCRACY. we all have a right to be heard, especially when our elected officials froim either party cross the line, and this KING W continually crosses it with arrogance and disregard for US THE PEOPLE.

[AsburySkinsFan]

No. Your assertaion is that it works "Exceedingly well"

That was not the case in Vietnam

Ok, let's see, did the much smaller NLF in Vietnam force the much larger and better armed US military force from Southeast Asia using guerilla warfare? Of course the answer is obvious and the results speak for themselves. Now ask the same questions about Afghanistan, and the result is the same. When I say exceedingly well, I don't mean that they didn't lose people in the process nor do I mean that its quick, what I mean is that the end results are that the tactic works exceedingly well.

From Wiki

"Learning from their defeats, the NLF began to engage in small-unit guerrilla warfare, instead of conventional American-style warfare. This allowed them to control the pace of the fighting, engaging in battle only when they believed they had a decisive advantage. The guerillas benefited from familiar terrain, a degree of popular support and from the fact the U.S. troops were unable to tell friend from foe. Control over a certain portion of the population gave the guerrillas access to manpower, intelligence and financial resources."

[bschurm]

Let us get this idea that the losses in November by the Republican party are a refrendum to get us out of Iraq. There is no shred of evidence that suggests this!

I will concede it was a referendum against Bush and his policies in the war. But the media started coming up with "referendum against the war" after the Democratic Powers started calling it that. Not all of them were even claiming it was a call to get us out of the war.

The losses on election day were a result of a typical second term swing for the party that is not in power. Couple that with some who were disgruntled with the handling of the war and you have the situation we are in now. A Congress ruled by Democrats.

This is not a referendum telling us to get out of Iraq.

I would also like to know where he comes up with the number that 70% of all Americans want us out. How can he say that? Does it come from an MSNBC pol that probably asked 2500 people out of a poulation of nearly 300 million.

Olberman has lost it. His ratings indicate how much weight his words carry. I think it is obvious that he is in the minority with his thinking.

[portisizzle]

Keith speaks the truth, and a lot of PEOPLE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH, THIS IS A DEMOCRACY. we all have a right to be heard, especially when our elected officials froim either party cross the line, and this KING W continually crosses it with arrogance and disregard for US THE PEOPLE.

Keith speaks with a forked tongue and a paper *******.

Until and unless he becomes a member of the CIA and our military intelligence then becoming qualified to speak for the defense of our country, he remains nothing more and nothing less than a simple blowhard.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I would also like to know where he comes up with the number that 70% of all Americans want us out. How can he say that? Does it come from an MSNBC pol that probably asked 2500 people out of a poulation of nearly 300 million.

From many different scientific polls that have been done, and 70% is a low figure from what I have seen.

[portisizzle]

From many different scientific polls that have been done, and 70% is a low figure from what I have seen.

Find the poll and provide me the question that was asked........

please

[Sarge]

Ok, let's see, did the much smaller NLF in Vietnam force the much larger and better armed US military force from Southeast Asia using guerilla warfare? Of course the answer is obvious and the results speak for themselves. Now ask the same questions about Afghanistan, and the result is the same. When I say exceedingly well, I don't mean that they didn't lose people in the process nor do I mean that its quick, what I mean is that the end results are that the tactic works exceedingly well.

From Wiki

"Learning from their defeats, the NLF began to engage in small-unit guerrilla warfare, instead of conventional American-style warfare. This allowed them to control the pace of the fighting, engaging in battle only when they believed they had a decisive advantage. The guerillas benefited from familiar terrain, a degree of popular support and from the fact the U.S. troops were unable to tell friend from foe. Control over a certain portion of the population gave the guerrillas access to manpower, intelligence and financial resources."

Oh nooooooooooooo

Wikapedia!

What ever will I do?

I'm not going to go into a whole history lesson here. I've done that before with Chommie, so you can use search and go see where Chommie went to school about this very subject

First, the military didn't withdraw. The Dems cut off funding and sold out South Vietnam, much the way the Dems want to do the military and Iraq today

Second, total body counts, released by the North Vietnamese themselves, indicated we killed hundreds of thousands more NVA and VIet Cong than they ever killed of us

Third, between the time Tet was over and about 1971, the NVA never fielded anything more than a brigade I believe, so thouroughly had Westmoreland beaten their asses. The VietCong were completely driven from South Vietnam and somewhere between 70 -90% of the country was considered pacified

Fourth, Gen Abrams had an awesome village pacification program that yeilded great success as well and could easily be used in Iraq now.

We won the war right up until we met our greatest enemy

The Democrats

[bschurm]

From many different scientific polls that have been done, and 70% is a low figure from what I have seen.

I want to see who conducts these polls. I have read what you have written and you do not strike me as a naive man. You should now, as well as I do that stats can be massaged any way you want them.

You say many scientific polls, I want to know which ones.

Every time I hear "polls" I always cringe anymore because they are so easily manipulated. That goes for either side.

[Chief skin]

Keith speaks with a forked tongue and a paper *******.

Until and unless he becomes a member of the CIA and our military intelligence then becoming qualified to speak for the defense of our country, he remains nothing more and nothing less than a simple blowhard.

WHERE in that commentary is somethig that you find as strechoing the truth????

AMAZING??? a person has to be a member of our government, or intel services before you give them an ounce of credibility??????? the above is a very scary statement

[bschurm]

WHERE in that commentary is somethig that you find as strechoing the truth????

AMAZING??? a person has to be a member of our government, or intel services before you give them an ounce of credibility??????? the above is a very scary statement

I'll give you one, his claim that 70% of all Americans think we should get out of Iraq.

How can he prove that statement? I am sorry, but if you study statistics, there is no way you can make such a statement definitively.

[DCsportsfan53]

We won the war right up until we met our greatest enemy

The Democrats

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Man you're a riot. You're right, Vietman was a washout. The Dems lied to the public to convince them to pull out because they hate America and were trying to covertly advance communism. Damn those stinkin democrats, damn half our whole damn country I tell ya!

[AsburySkinsFan]

I want to see who conducts these polls. I have read what you have written and you do not strike me as a naive man. You should now, as well as I do that stats can be massaged any way you want them.

You say many scientific polls, I want to know which ones.

Every time I hear "polls" I always cringe anymore because they are so easily manipulated. That goes for either side.

Well here's one that polled our soliders, from Zogby who is a fairly respectable bunch.

And in 2006 72% of troops said we should pull out within a year.

http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

"An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows."

"The poll, conducted in conjunction with Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies, showed that 29% of the respondents, serving in various branches of the armed forces, said the U.S. should leave Iraq “immediately,” while another 22% said they should leave in the next six months. Another 21% said troops should be out between six and 12 months, while 23% said they should stay “as long as they are needed.”"

[portisizzle]

Well here's one that polled our soliders, from Zogby who is a fairly respectable bunch.

And in 2006 72% of troops said we should pull out within a year.

http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

"An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows."

"The poll, conducted in conjunction with Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies, showed that 29% of the respondents, serving in various branches of the armed forces, said the U.S. should leave Iraq “immediately,” while another 22% said they should leave in the next six months. Another 21% said troops should be out between six and 12 months, while 23% said they should stay “as long as they are needed.”"

I want to know what question they were asked. Thank you in advance.

[Sarge]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Man you're a riot. You're right, Vietman was a washout. The Dems lied to the public to convince them to pull out because they hate America and were trying to covertly advance communism. Damn those stinkin democrats, damn half our whole damn country I tell ya!

Who cut off funding for the war?

Who would not even let Nixon enforce the terms of the cease-fire?

[AsburySkinsFan]

And then there is this one done by Program on International Policy Attitudes of Iraqis that shows 71% of them want the US out within a year.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I want to know what question they were asked. Thank you in advance.

Click the link, it'll take you too the study.

[portisizzle]

AMAZING??? a person has to be a member of our government, or intel services before you give them an ounce of credibility??????? the above is a very scary statement

Credibility is not the issue here. The fact that he ignors how business is done in the USA shows me he has a paper *******. (In case you forgot the President is the Commander in Chief)

Secondly Olberman has a partisan axe to grind. What makes you think his viewpoint is objective and balanced?

[AsburySkinsFan]

Who cut off funding for the war?

Who would not even let Nixon enforce the terms of the cease-fire?

Let's see here, they forced us out through a war of atrition and sheer will and some how we are supposed to maintain the authority to enforce the terms of a cease-fire. Hmmm, something doesn't compute.

[Chief skin]

I'll give you one, his claim that 70% of all Americans think we should get out of Iraq.

How can he prove that statement? I am sorry, but if you study statistics, there is no way you can make such a statement definitively.

King W'S war policy has any where from 28 to 32 percent approval rating depending on which poll you read. Therefore, he (Keith)is within the margin of error. Hey man I am a Pennsylvania registered GOP so you are not talking to a LIB here you are taliking to a concerned American.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Secondly Olberman has a partisan axe to grind. What makes you think his viewpoint is objective and balanced?

Ok, woah woah woah, how can you say that Olberman is being partisan when his whole rant in the opinion piece that began this thread was aimed not at Bush or Reps but DEMOCRATS, hello I guess that makes him a Republican hack? I'm sorry but that holds about as much water as a broken bucket.

[portisizzle]

King W'S war policy has any where from 28 to 32 percent approval rating depending on which poll you read. Therefore, he (Keith)is within the margin of error. Hey man I am a Pennsylvania registered GOP so you are not talking to a LIB here you are taliking to a concerned American.

You sound like an uniformed American. Where does approval rating come into play with regards to defending our country? Do you have the knowledge necessary to come to a conclusion on the use of our military?

[AsburySkinsFan]

Back to the polls, here is one from over a year ago, that shows 2/3rds of Americans want the soliders to start coming home, I think we all know that this number has done nothing but increase.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12161.htm

[portisizzle]

Ok, woah woah woah, how can you say that Olberman is being partisan when his whole rant in the opinion piece that began this thread was aimed not at Bush or Reps but DEMOCRATS, hello I guess that makes him a Republican hack? I'm sorry but that holds about as much water as a broken bucket.

Whatever bud. I read the article. He is mad because the Democrats had to deal with the political reality that the President has the final say in this matter. Olberman is uber pissed because Bush is playing hardball with candyass Senators. :2cents:

[Predicto]

First, the military didn't withdraw. The Dems cut off funding and sold out South Vietnam, much the way the Dems want to do the military and Iraq today

Of course not. The American military never withdraws. Even if they are fighting a senseless war that goes on for a decade with no end is in sight, like Vietnam, they do not withdraw. They are the best soldiers in the world and they always think they are about to win. They stay and fight until the politicians call them home.

Second, total body counts, released by the North Vietnamese themselves, indicated we killed hundreds of thousands more NVA and VIet Cong than they ever killed of us

Who the hell cares about that in a conflict like this? If they can keep recruiting even more stupid young teenagers every year, what difference does it make? Killing more of them is not "winning." Achieving your goals is winning.

Third, between the time Tet was over and about 1971, the NVA never fielded anything more than a brigade I believe, so thouroughly had Westmoreland beaten their asses. THe VietCong were completely driven from South Vietnam and somewhere between 70 -90% of the country was considered pacified.

By who? Is 70-90 percent of Iraq considered pacified too? Are the problems over there jusst an illusion?

Forth, Gen Abrams had an awesome village pacification program that yeilded great success as well and could easily be used in Iraq now.

You may be right about this. I have no idea. What is is and whyy haven't we used it yet?

We won the war right up until we met our greatest enemy

The Democrats

We didn't win jack. We won battles, we killed lots of people. So what. That is tactical success.

You aren't winning when you lost 50 thousand good men and gazillions of dollars and things are no better than when you started except that you have propped up a corrupt regime for a decade but their huge well funded army is still a complete joke. You aren't winning just because Curtis LeMay has bombed half the jungle flat and you aren't winning when you are reduced to "destroying villages in order to save them". Tactical success, strategic failure.

That is not winning, that is endless fighting. Sometimes endless fighting for unclear objectives isn't a good idea, no matter how brave and tough you are.

Listening to you talk about Vietnam is like listening to Germans talk about how they were "sold out" at the end of World War One. Mythology and serviceman's myopia and national pride totally overwhem reality.

[portisizzle]

Click the link, it'll take you too the study.

I think you are missing my point. I am looking for the raw question that was asked of the military personnel. It might be there but I can not see it. And pardon me in advance if I do not want to take the excerpt from article you linked as proof of the questions asked.