Brave Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Man, what has gotten into the Giants? 37-0 over the Cowboys with just a few minutes left. Oh, why couldn't that be us one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuji869 Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 At least something went right today. :thumbsup: How about dem Cowboys!!!!! Congrats Tom on the win over America's Team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I am going to the boys/iggles game next Saturday night. Whole family loves the boys...(Forgive them Father..for they know not what they do)...so this is part of their Christmas present. Tickets for the front row. This is the first game I will ever attend......where I am praying for a 0-0 tie!! :laugh: :laugh: Blondie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 It does beg the question of which young QB is the better one to build around. Hutchinson has done a nice job managing his play for the Cowboys and not losing a contest. Spurrier hasn't really reeled Ramsey in a great deal and Ramsey has much more responsibility in our offense, but he has has major down days. They are similar players in that neither is very mobile and both have good arms. I think Ramsey has a bit more arm strength, though that's certainly possibly wrong. Ramsey has a far superior release and has shown accuracy beyond his years. Hutchinson has been brought along much more slowly given his time away but he shows some tools as well. In all, I'd say we have the advantage at this spot and this is a spot we need an advantage in to get better soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdee Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Originally posted by Art It does beg the question of which young QB is the better one to build around. Hutchinson has done a nice job managing his play for the Cowboys and not losing a contest. Spurrier hasn't really reeled Ramsey in a great deal and Ramsey has much more responsibility in our offense, but he has has major down days. They are similar players in that neither is very mobile and both have good arms. I think Ramsey has a bit more arm strength, though that's certainly possibly wrong. Ramsey has a far superior release and has shown accuracy beyond his years. Hutchinson has been brought along much more slowly given his time away but he shows some tools as well. In all, I'd say we have the advantage at this spot and this is a spot we need an advantage in to get better soon. You should try comedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 You're probably right, BigDee. It is probably humorous that I would have as many kind things to say about Hutchinson as I did. So, I take it back. He sucks. Not at a Quincy Carter level mind you, but he does suck. Sorry for being funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1car Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 "They are similar players in that neither is very mobile and both have good arms. I think Ramsey has a bit more arm strength, though that's certainly possibly wrong. Ramsey has a far superior release and has shown accuracy beyond his years. Hutchinson has been brought along much more slowly given his time away but he shows some tools as well." Yes Dallas did get well err abused, but I haven't heard of Ramsey throwing 60-70 yard bombs! Yes you read that correctly. Boy we suck, the skins should easly beat us in your own home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisFul Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Originally posted by Art It does beg the question of which young QB is the better one to build around. Hutchinson has done a nice job managing his play for the Cowboys and not losing a contest. Spurrier hasn't really reeled Ramsey in a great deal and Ramsey has much more responsibility in our offense, but he has has major down days. They are similar players in that neither is very mobile and both have good arms. I think Ramsey has a bit more arm strength, though that's certainly possibly wrong. Ramsey has a far superior release and has shown accuracy beyond his years. Hutchinson has been brought along much more slowly given his time away but he shows some tools as well. In all, I'd say we have the advantage at this spot and this is a spot we need an advantage in to get better soon. Uhm.......done a nice job? Outside of 2 games, Hutchinson hasn't done anything. Hes not completed over 50% of his passes in 5 out of his 7 starts. He's been absolutely awful in the last two games since the twice-yearly Washington smackdown ( )He looks like what he is...a rookie. So far, Ramsey does as well. It's going to be awhile before you can honestly say which one is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisFul Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Originally posted by Art You're probably right, BigDee. It is probably humorous that I would have as many kind things to say about Hutchinson as I did. So, I take it back. He sucks. Not at a Quincy Carter level mind you, but he does suck. Sorry for being funny. Actually, Quincy has done a better job than Hutch has. Numbers don't lie....... I realize Chad is just a rookie, but so far, he's having a tougher go of it than Quincy did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Umm... whoever made that comment about arm strength is smoking crack. Ramsey has one of the strongest arms in the league, and from what I've seen, it's certainly stronger than Hutchinson's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisFul Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Ive seen them both play, and I think the arm strength is about the same. Both of these guys have freakin' cannons and are both EASILY in the top 10 in terms of NFL QB arm strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Chris, Hutchinson is graded on a different scale. "Pretty well" for a rookie is obviously different than pretty well for a vet. Hutchinson is playing like a scrub if he were a five-year vet. Carter had the intangible quality of actually having a very strong game and being completely meaningless. Hutchinson seems to me to be a bit better at making plays when they are needed. In the fourth quarter Hutchinson has been a better QB for you than any other quarter. I fear Hutchinson more than I do Carter. Perhaps you don't. You are a bit closer to that situation than I am. As it stands I can tell you I'm pleased with Ramsey and from the games I've seen of him and of Hutchinson I like where we are today. You are right, though, that tomorrow may prove to provide a different appreciation of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1car Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Originally posted by TheChosenOne Umm... whoever made that comment about arm strength is smoking crack. Ramsey has one of the strongest arms in the league, and from what I've seen, it's certainly stronger than Hutchinson's. You must be kidding? Apple's and oranges. I didn't see Ramsey do ANYTHING in the way of "certainly stronger than Huchingson's". So your boy is dropping 80 yard bombs, OK then I'm wrong! Maybe I'm confusing Ramsey and that other guy from GreenBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 F1, Your guy isn't dropping 80-yard bombs either you know. By distance, his longest throws in each game have been, 39, 30, 24, 49, 41, 58, 30. So, where are these massive drops you're talking about? Fantasy land right? Hutchinson has a great arm. A very lively gun. No doubt. But, I've seen over half his throws and he strikes me as having a slightly lesser arm than Ramsey strikes me as having. Certainly it's a hard thing to quantify. Entering today's game, your guy had completed a higher percentage than my guy. Your guy had a 6.61 yards per attempt average. My guy had 7.13 yards per attempt. It seems to me that Ramsey is obviously completing more passes for better chunks than Hutch is. And while this is not a sure indicator of arm strength, the fact is, the ability to get the ball into space quickly allows for a higher average and at this point I think it'd be hard for you to say your guy has a bigger arm. He may. I just think there's a bit more observable evidence on the other side at present to say the other guy does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdee Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Originally posted by Art You're probably right, BigDee. I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Good effort little buddy. Thanks for agreeing that praise of Hutchinson is amusing. You are not very good at this, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdee Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I think your a bit confused. You actually agreed with me that you need to do comedy and I agreed that I was right about that. Its not that hard to understand but keep your chin up you'll get it sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1car Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Originally posted by Art F1, Your guy isn't dropping 80-yard bombs either you know. By distance, his longest throws in each game have been, 39, 30, 24, 49, 41, 58, 30. So, where are these massive drops you're talking about? Fantasy land right? Hutchinson has a great arm. A very lively gun. No doubt. But, I've seen over half his throws and he strikes me as having a slightly lesser arm than Ramsey strikes me as having. Certainly it's a hard thing to quantify. Entering today's game, your guy had completed a higher percentage than my guy. Your guy had a 6.61 yards per attempt average. My guy had 7.13 yards per attempt. It seems to me that Ramsey is obviously completing more passes for better chunks than Hutch is. And while this is not a sure indicator of arm strength, the fact is, the ability to get the ball into space quickly allows for a higher average and at this point I think it'd be hard for you to say your guy has a bigger arm. He may. I just think there's a bit more observable evidence on the other side at present to say the other guy does. Why fight over it. I said that Hutch can throw a 60 to 70 yard bomb. You posted a 58 yarder, so I lied the last 2 yards, btw is that completed? If so I swear I saw a 70 yarders before from Hutch the whole internet forum droped a brick about 2 weeks ago (this is no Aikman arm), no mater. Also remember you said that Ramsey had a "MUCH" stronger arm, so exactly where did I go wrong? I watched Ramsey this afternoon and he wasn't "the protype QB" but he'll probably turn out better than Hutch. I'll give you a 7th for your HC though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcard Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Originally posted by Art It does beg the question of which young QB is the better one to build around. Hutchinson has done a nice job managing his play for the Cowboys and not losing a contest. Spurrier hasn't really reeled Ramsey in a great deal and Ramsey has much more responsibility in our offense, but he has has major down days. They are similar players in that neither is very mobile and both have good arms. I think Ramsey has a bit more arm strength, though that's certainly possibly wrong. Ramsey has a far superior release and has shown accuracy beyond his years. Hutchinson has been brought along much more slowly given his time away but he shows some tools as well. In all, I'd say we have the advantage at this spot and this is a spot we need an advantage in to get better soon. Shocker!! I agree. I believe at this point after watching both Ramsey and Hutchinson play, Ramsey has the advantage. My opinion is based on the fact that Ramsey has a much quicker release, his pocket awareness is far superior and protects the football. Hutchinson could be lacking in these areas due to the 5 year lay-off. I think when given time, Hutchinson has also shown very good accuracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Ramsey does have a better arm than Hutchinson. With that being said I am very impressed with Hutchinson arm. I think he is going to be a good one. Hutchinson is a tad bit more mobile. Ramsey has the advantage, but Hutchinson has been out of the game for 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 F1, I didn't say Ramsey had a much stronger arm. I said Ramsey appears to have a bit of a stronger arm though I could be wrong. Ramsey also has had a few 70 yard bombs. Their called hail mary passes you know? The bottom line is you have created a Hutchinson who's gone from dropping 60 yard bombs to dropping 70 yard bombs to dropping 80 yard bombs and in fact, he's not done any of the three because dropping a bomb means a completion and it doesn't mean dropping harmlessly to the turf incomplete. Fair enough? No, Ramsey isn't the prototype QB. That's Michael Vick. Ramsey is a traditional QB, which is the same as Hutchinson. Which is what I said, so, where did I go wrong? Since I didn't, that answers where you went wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Hutchinson is obviously, obviously, obviously a much better NFL QB prospect than QC. I don't think anyone here was particularly happy to see Hutchinson get the starting job, other than to bring a smile to the face of those who felt that QC's demotion was necessary for them to "prove" their side of the argument in arguments involving QC's talent. That said, this arm strength discussion is incredibly assinine, and I'm sorry I even threw my 2 cents in. Arm strength at the NFL level is an intangible, as even the ability to throw 30-yard bullet with superior velocity doesn't mean that the same QB will be able to throw an ultimately deeper long ball. All I can say, and this is from watching several games with each QB (unfortunately more Cowboys games than I would have liked to have seen, damn this NYC T.V. market), is that in my opinion, which of course I trust more than yours, Ramsey's arm is DEFINITELY better. Does Hutch have a good arm? Yes. Certainly. Is it an NFL caliber arm? Absolutely. Is he probably in the top half of NFL QB's in arm strength? Hard to say, depends who you are talking about. Is Ramsey in the top half? I think so, but then again, it's difficult to discern among the top guys. If you sit down and make a list, you'd be surprised at the # of guys you can think of that can really gun the ball. Whether they have any other skills, well, that doesnt really enter into the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Brett Favre Donovan McNabb Daunte Culpepper Peyton Manning David Carr Michael Vick Mark Brunnell used to, dunno bout now though. Jeff George (yes, he's still in the league) Hell, even Jake the Snake has some major zip on the ball when he needs to. Drew Bledsoe Aaron Brooks etc, etc, etc. I never get to see Kordell (and who would want to), but I seem to remember him having the ability to get the ball pretty damn far when he needed to. This is a completely unordered list that took about 5 seconds of thought, but I think you get my point, and this doesnt take into consideration a bunch of 2nd stringers who we haven't seen because they're stuck behind quality #1s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Ramsey arm strength is on par with the best in the game. That includes Farve and Vick. Patrick was ranked as the No. 1 prep javelin thrower in the country while in highschool. He won a bronze medal at the Pan American Games in Havana, Cuba. The kid is arm is pretty damn good. But we all know arm strength doesnt mean wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Ok, you all lost sight of what this post was about. The Giants played awesome today!!!!! This was the first game all year that I didn't throw anything, I wasn't sweating in the fourth quarter, no cursing or disgust. It was about time I got one of these games. As far as this debate you guys have with Hutchinson and Ramsey. I can't tell you who can throw it further but from what I have seen of the two, Ramsey has more of the intangibles going right now. Ramsey plays a bit looser and makes better decisions. I think Ramsey throws a better ball too but, in fairness as was pointed out, Hutchinson has been away from the game for four years. Next year will be a better indicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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