For Best Values, See Below ( Boston Globe)

[smeeter]

It has a patriots slant, but the gist is the same. People freak out over getting a scrub below the tenth pick. It's not necessarily so. Hold on to #6, if Landry falls to the Skins, give Atlanta a call. I'd take their first and second for this year, and their first for next year.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/04/22/for_best_values_see_below/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+New+England+Patriots+news

[ALLWORLD]

good find, I like how it also shows how much we would have to pay a 6th round pick versus someone later in the draft.

It would be nice to get a deal with us receiving multiple picks for our #6 though.

1 more week!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr. S]

this is what I keep telling people who believe in "impact players". It is all speculation until thep layers take the field, and suddenly some nobody named Marques Colston shocks the league while Chad Jackson and Santonio Holmes are both looking dumb. Just because we have a top 6 pick, and there are 6 PROJECTED "impact players" does not mean we could not find a productive player if we were to trade down, who very well could be an "impact player".

I pray that Brady Quinn falls to 6 so we can start a trade war between Minny and Miami. That was possibly the best move to have rumors circulate that Miami will trade up with us, sparking Minny to want a trade.

[D-Day]

this is what I keep telling people who believe in "impact players". It is all speculation until thep layers take the field, and suddenly some nobody named Marques Colston shocks the league while Chad Jackson and Santonio Holmes are both looking dumb. Just because we have a top 6 pick, and there are 6 PROJECTED "impact players" does not mean we could not find a productive player if we were to trade down, who very well could be an "impact player".

I pray that Brady Quinn falls to 6 so we can start a trade war between Minny and Miami. That was possibly the best move to have rumors circulate that Miami will trade up with us, sparking Minny to want a trade.

Hopefully quinn and landry are there at six.

step #1 - try to get a bidding war with min and mia for quinn and try to get whatever you can from minn and take minn's deal for hopefully their second.

step #2 - call ne and atl at #7 for a bidding war with LL. get the best deal possible for the #7

a/ atl one of the #2's and their #8

b/ ne's two #1's and a third.

we would have the

a. #8 + 7th pick in the second and probably the 10th pick in the second

or

b. #24 + #28 + 7th pick in the second and the 28th in the third.

Dream Draft.

btw trade the third for kris jenkins at that point.

[Siven]

Hopefully quinn and landry are there at six.

step #1 - try to get a bidding war with min and mia for quinn and try to get whatever you can from minn and take minn's deal for hopefully their second.

step #2 - call ne and atl at 37 for a bidding war with LL. get the best deal possible for the #7

a/ atl one of the #2's and their #8

b/ ne's two #1's and a third.

we would have the

a. #8 + 7th pick in the second and probably the 10th pick in the second

or

b. #24 + #28 + 7th pick in the second and the 28th in the third.

Dream Draft.

btw trade the third for kris jenkins at that point.

I am liking that draft day a lot. 4 starters on day 1 = helluva draft. Plus we have a lot of 5/6/7 picks to build some depth. You have just created my new favorite draft scenario

EDIT*

That's a lot of smart front office decisions, all pieced together at the same time? can it happen?

[Mr. S]

That's a lot of smart front office decisions, all pieced together at the same time? can it happen?

it can happen, but more likely to happen if Brady Quinn is available. I think with Landry, the Patriots will think there is Nelson, Merriweather, and Michael Griffin available who wouldn't cost as much to trade up, if even necessary. Also, I bet Eric Weddle ends up a Patriot, just seems like a guy they would draft.

However with Quinn, both Miami and Minny want him.

[Loyal2Washington]

Hopefully quinn and landry are there at six.

step #1 - try to get a bidding war with min and mia for quinn and try to get whatever you can from minn and take minn's deal for hopefully their second.

step #2 - call ne and atl at 37 for a bidding war with LL. get the best deal possible for the #7

a/ atl one of the #2's and their #8

b/ ne's two #1's and a third.

we would have the

a. #8 + 7th pick in the second and probably the 10th pick in the second

or

b. #24 + #28 + 7th pick in the second and the 28th in the third.

Dream Draft.

btw trade the third for kris jenkins at that point.

1. I doubt there will be a bidding war, Mia. is going to trade for Trent Green. Green is due a 7 million dollar bonus and KC is not going to pay that come June, thus he will one way or another be a dolphin.

2. I don't see NE being in a hurry to trade up and part with 3 draft picks. You are talking about one of the, if not the, best teams in the NFL draft. Factor in the money the spent on FA's this year and there is no great need for a trade up unless it involves getting rid of Samuels. A trade with them would most likely yeild the 28th and Samuels. I could and do like the trade scenerio with Hotlanta.

[D-Day]

it can happen, but more likely to happen if Brady Quinn is available. I think with Landry, the Patriots will think there is Nelson, Merriweather, and Michael Griffin available who wouldn't cost as much to trade up, if even necessary. Also, I bet Eric Weddle ends up a Patriot, just seems like a guy they would draft.

However with Quinn, both Miami and Minny want him.

Agreed I don't see the NE part of my dream draft happening, but the ATL part is possible as they covet LL and I think we are making more our desire to get him to drive up the price.

[D-Day]

1. I doubt there will be a bidding war, Mia. is going to trade for Trent Green. Green is due a 7 million dollar bonus and KC is not going to pay that come June, thus he will one way or another be a dolphin.

2. I don't see NE being in a hurry to trade up and part with 3 draft picks. You are talking about one of the, if not the, best teams in the NFL draft. Factor in the money the spent on FA's this year and there is no great need for a trade up unless it involves getting rid of Samuels. A trade with them would most likely yeild the 28th and Samuels. I could and do like the trade scenerio with Hotlanta.

The only counter to that is that Mia needs a young Franchise QB and unless they plan on losing a lot this year they will not be in a better position to acquire one, especially if Quinn falls to six, for this cheap for a while. Green is going to be 37 and he will give them at most two years, if they are lucky, which is coincidentally just about the ideal time to groom a QB the right way (ala the anti eli manning philosphy).

[phatboy41]

it can happen, but more likely to happen if Brady Quinn is available. I think with Landry, the Patriots will think there is Nelson, Merriweather, and Michael Griffin available who wouldn't cost as much to trade up, if even necessary. Also, I bet Eric Weddle ends up a Patriot, just seems like a guy they would draft.

However with Quinn, both Miami and Minny want him.

I think you're definately right... I think New England is too stubborn and much to smart to give us too much for a #6 pick. Though, I'm sure they would love to have Landry, I doubt they would give up both their 1st rounds alone to get him, and adding a 3rd round on top of that sounds like pretty much an impossibility. If we are to bid anything at all it would be a war between Miami and Minnesota if Quinn falls in our lap, and that scenario moving down to 9 kind of scares me. I think that if we took a great deal from Miami, Minnesota would take Landry and Atlanta would take Okoye... we could be in a horrible situation right there. Only deal down if we know we are going to get something great in exchange... I understand building depth throughout the draft but if I had the chance to get a potential playmaker with my pick I wouldn't trade down to acquire more if there wasn't anyone I really liked later in the round... come draft day, we'll all find out, and it's taking much to long for Saturday to come around. :helmet: :logo:

[Omeletpants]

It has a patriots slant, but the gist is the same. People freak out over getting a scrub below the tenth pick. It's not necessarily so. Hold on to #6, if Landry falls to the Skins, give Atlanta a call. I'd take their first and second for this year, and their first for next year.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/04/22/for_best_values_see_below/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+New+England+Patriots+news

Yeah, Atl is going to give up their first round pick next year and a second this year to move up two places. "Earth to Smeeter, your spaceship is waiting for you".

[Loyal2Washington]

The only counter to that is that Mia needs a young Franchise QB and unless they plan on losing a lot this year they will not be in a better position to acquire one, especially if Quinn falls to six, for this cheap for a while. Green is going to be 37 and he will give them at most two years, if they are lucky, which is coincidentally just about the ideal time to groom a QB the right way (ala the anti eli manning philosphy).

Mia. has a lot of holes of it's own to fill and while I think they would jump at Quinn at the 9 spot I think if they land Green they look at trying to get younger on the D at the nine spot. Mia. will take a young signal caller in the second round or later to let sit for a year or two, with little to no QB controversy, and then hand the reigns over to him when Green is gone.

[D-Day]

Mia. has a lot of holes of it's own to fill and while I think they would jump at Quinn at the 9 spot I think if they land Green they look at trying to get younger on the D at the nine spot. Mia. will take a young signal caller in the second round or later to let sit for a year or two, with little to no QB controversy, and then hand the reigns over to him when Green is gone.

Good points, I forget how old their D is, but don't they have a new coach and I know new coaches do love to start fresh and build with a QB. Anything can happen. Hopefully though the rumored trade with Mia (swap firsts and a third) will only entice min.

[Skinsinparadise]

From the article: Another benefit to trading down is that since most draft picks are crapshoots anyway, the more choices a team has, the better its chances of getting a productive player.

To me that's the operative quote. For those on the board who say screw the draft its a crap shoot, lets get established veterans. Well, FA can be a crap shoot as well. And by us trading our draft picks away its giving us a smaller pool of players INCREASING the likelihood of the draft being a crapshoot for us.

[Aston]

The trade that landed Wilson and Wilfork is one example of a smart economic approach, according to the work of Thaler and Massey, who found that teams are often impatient by trading away future picks for current ones. The patient team that accumulates more future picks, they believe, has the better chance to be successful.

Gee, I wonder which team they're referring to?:laugh:

[Veretax]

From the article: Another benefit to trading down is that since most draft picks are crapshoots anyway, the more choices a team has, the better its chances of getting a productive player.

To me that's the operative quote. For those on the board who say screw the draft its a crap shoot, lets get established veterans. Well, FA can be a crap shoot as well. And by us trading our draft picks away its giving us a smaller pool of players INCREASING the likelihood of the draft being a crapshoot for us.

I don't entirely agree that trading down == better bet, but I would love to add a 2nd or 3rd rounder to our depth on defense. It could be a realy boon for our team.

[chaught76]

Minnesota just invested in Tavaris Jackson, so I don't think they are going to go after Quinn. That being said, I think Atlanta is our ideal trading partner as long as they are trading up to get Landry; of course, that might not go through because I think Atlanta is a nice position a could just say fine no to trade and we'll just take Okoye with 8th pick.

If we trade with Miami because Quinn fell to the 6th pick, we better get a lot more than their first and second because I would be willing to beat neither Okoye or Landry will make it to the 9th pick. If you trade with Miami, you start by asking for their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick for our first. If that doesn't work, then offer them our 1st and 6th round pick for their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Finally, worst case scenario is, look Miami we need your 1st, 2nd, and 4th round pick if you want this deal. Seems almost guaranteed if Quinn gets the Vikings at the 7th overall pick they either take him or trade down with someone like Miami or Philly or Kansas City or Dallas.

Which brings up this scenario: How much does Kansas City covet Quinn? Would they give a couple of picks to come get him. Let's face it, if Green does end up going to Miami, then what happens?

We might have some leverage, but with only 1 first day pick, we don't have as much as you think in my opinion.

[MRMADD]

according to the work of Thaler and Massey, who found that teams are often impatient by trading away future picks for current ones. The patient team that accumulates more future picks, they believe, has the better chance to be successful.

Why should we believe a bunch of economists? They seem to think the Patriots have built a better team than the Skins when it's really all just a matter of the pure luck they had in finding Tom Brady.

Or isn't that what the front office apologists tell us?

[deejaydana]

I also wonder about the sentiment, widely held, that ALL players need to be superstars. Every winning team, and even those that are consistently competitive, have stars yes, but are also rich with role player types (case in point here would be New England but I don't want to bore you with another tribute to them). My point is this, you enrich and deepen your team by have many picks in the draft. The later round guys can still make the team and you get the best bang for your buck in the process. Look at Golston on our team, the guy costs well under $1 mil and will be a solid contributor if not an every down guy. He'll also play his heart out in the hopes of a bigger payday once his rookie contract is up. The Niners have 8 freaking picks in the first 4 rounds this year (thanks to us giving them 2 for malcontent B Lloyd who they didn't want anyway). THIS is how you build a winner and also have room to make mistakes. With one pick in the first 5 rounds we have ZERO room for error. At least we might be able to learn from our mistakes...YOU HOPE (we haven't yet as far as I can tell).

[Aston]

I also wonder about the sentiment, widely held, that ALL players need to be superstars. Every winning team, and even those that are consistently competitive, have stars yes, but are also rich with role player types (case in point here would be New England but I don't want to bore you with another tribute to them). My point is this, you enrich and deepen your team by have many picks in the draft. The later round guys can still make the team and you get the best bang for your buck in the process. Look at Golston on our team, the guy costs well under $1 mil and will be a solid contributor if not an every down guy. He'll also play his heart out in the hopes of a bigger payday once his rookie contract is up. The Niners have 8 freaking picks in the first 4 rounds this year (thanks to us giving them 2 for malcontent B Lloyd who they didn't want anyway). THIS is how you build a winner and also have room to make mistakes. With one pick in the first 5 rounds we have ZERO room for error. At least we might be able to learn from our mistakes...YOU HOPE (we haven't yet as far as I can tell).

Good post, and I agree. I don't mind taking a FA to fill an immediate need for a starting position, but high-priced FAs can't fill an entire roster with today's cap. Guys like Golsten are not as glamorous, but are just as necessary as guys like Taylor. We need good, cheap depth (at every position) and that is usually only available from the draft.

[deejaydana]

Why should we believe a bunch of economists? They seem to think the Patriots have built a better team than the Skins when it's really all just a matter of the pure luck they had in finding Tom Brady.

Or isn't that what the front office apologists tell us?

If you believe this I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you. The Pats style of mgmt is so far superior to ours it's laughable. Look how stacked they are AND they have two 1st round picks this year. They would humilate us no matter where we played the game. And that 40-0 drubbing (or something close to it in the preseason last year) that was NO FLUKE. They really are that much better than us. It's more than just Tom Brady (admittedly a pick that panned out to an unbelievable degee, and still is). I would trade the whole mgmt team straight up for theirs w/o a second thought. They are everything we're not: COMPETENT.

[deejaydana]

We might have some leverage, but with only 1 first day pick, we don't have as much as you think in my opinion.

I never thought we had much leverage to begin with amigo. Dropping down and enriching your team CAN happen, it just doesn't as much as we like to believe on this board. We can always dream, it's just too bad Millen and Co. aren't below us in the draft, that's one guy even Cerrato could out-negotiate.

[D-Day]

I never thought we had much leverage to begin with amigo. Dropping down and enriching your team CAN happen, it just doesn't as much as we like to believe on this board. We can always dream, it's just too bad Millen and Co. aren't below us in the draft, that's one guy even Cerrato could out-negotiate.

And to expand on that

The picks we have in the draft have absolutely nothing to do with the leverage we have to trade down. That has everything to do with the following three things.

1. the players available

2. What teams are willing to pay for that player

3. What teams think the teams picking between theirs and your pick might do.

[smeeter]

Why should we believe a bunch of economists? They seem to think the Patriots have built a better team than the Skins when it's really all just a matter of the pure luck they had in finding Tom Brady.

Or isn't that what the front office apologists tell us?

I believe Belichick has an Economics degree from Wesleyan. Having that surely doesn't hurt.

[chaught76]

I never thought we had much leverage to begin with amigo. Dropping down and enriching your team CAN happen, it just doesn't as much as we like to believe on this board. We can always dream, it's just too bad Millen and Co. aren't below us in the draft, that's one guy even Cerrato could out-negotiate.

My leverage comment was a general statement based on my opinion that a lot of my brothers and sisters in here seem to think we are in a great trade down position, which we might be, but the tide seems like it can turn so quickly for a franchise on draft day. Remember what happened to the Vikings a couple of years back.

By the way, I almost fell out of my chair when I read Millen/Cerrato comment. :laugh: You may be giving Vinny a little too much credit. :laugh: