Do you guys like the UN?

[JackC]

Fansince62,

Right back at you old fellow. You provide needed laughs for me with your typical right wing smug behavior. Thanks! I sure hope that was "American" enough for you!

[fansince62]

kinda lame there JackC........you can do better than that can't ya?

[JackC]

No I doubt it. Who could live up to the standards of lameness you have set?

Love Live King George and all of the "real" Americans!

[fansince62]

terribly clever little fellow aren't you?!!!!

oh yea....I didn't vote for Bush......you'll need to do better Jack if you want to rile me....I know you have it in you....come on now...."the little Jack that could"!!!!!

[redman]

Summary of JackC's retorts: "I know you are but what am I."

[JackC]

Originally posted by fansince62

terribly clever little fellow aren't you?!!!!

oh yea....I didn't vote for Bush......you'll need to do better Jack if you want to rile me....I know you have it in you....come on now...."the little Jack that could"!!!!!

If's that's true than maybe you're not a real American either!

[JackC]

Originally posted by redman

Summary of JackC's retorts: "I know you are but what am I."

Summary of Redman's retorts...Oh please someone look at me! I can be as wrong as the fansince62! Let me play!

[fansince62]

Jack....you're a Jeerleader standing on the sidelines with nothing to add to the equation. What's your plan chump? Please bestow upon us the wisdom and keen intellectual acumen you bring to bear from years of experience and deep information access in the foreign policy/defense arena. putz........keep waving the pom poms......

[JackC]

Originally posted by fansince62

Jack....you're a Jeerleader standing on the sidelines with nothing to add to the equation. What's your plan chump? Please bestow upon us the wisdom and keen intellectual acumen you bring to bear from years of experience and deep information access in the foreign policy/defense arena. putz........keep waving the pom poms......

No one is as smart as you but I think the Bush's entire Iraq policy has done nothing but damage our postion in the world. It's would have been wise to move forward with the war on the terrorists without playing the Iraq card in such a grandstanding way.

It seems to me the cooperation with have from Arab nations the more effective our terror war will be. You know as well as I that the people in Pakistan know where OBL is hiding. You also know the government in Pakistan(among other nations) is taking a big risk with it's people by cooperating with the United States at this time. The Iraq grandstanding done by the Bushies has only hurt that situation. Hell it looks like even NATO member Turkey can't assist us as much as we'd like because their population is in an uproar too. I guess is Bush wants to turn the Iraq oil fields over to his croonies. I guess that's why he's ignoring North Korea.

Most Republicans know in their hearts that this administration is destructive to the good of out nation but are more interested in the political gains brought by the wagging of the dog than the good of the nation! It's like a game to these people(you know who you are).

Call me stupid all you want but you are the one following the village idiot to destruction. It seems to me you really want America to conquer all of the Arabs in the world. You just don't know what you will do if you get their.

[fansince62]

jack/FSF....at least you have shifted, somewhat, to the issues. in no particular order:

- what is your evidence that the Iraqi policy has damaged our position in the world? how does this damage translate to practical consequences?

- how do you know that what you see on television parallels (or doesn't) what is actually happening in the "noise"?

- why would cooperation from a diverse group of arab interests make this any easier? unless you can forward a plan/course of action for how this should be handled you don't have a measuring rod.

- the areas you are thinking of in pakistan aren't under any government's formal control. this has been reported by organizations liks 60 minutes for quite a while.

- turkey in an uproar? what are the numbers? is the government threatening to resign? are millions hitting the street? what interest groups are represented? this is tantatmount to stating that the US population is against globalism based on the protests at world bank/IMF etc. meetings....hardly the case.

- what is the good of this nation?

- what are our national security interests? and spare me the gibberish about "this is all about oil"

- while agreeing that "problem resolution" should be attempted on multiple levels, it is clear that negotiating has not brought great progress thus far. what sort of multi-pronged approach do you propose?

please keep the hyperbole to a minimum....i'm not aware of any living American who advocates conquering the Arab world. what a burden that would be!!! no....most perceive a viscearal threat and want to kill the source of the problem before they kill us and our families. these folks are planning to kill me, YOU, your family, my family - citizens of other countries...that they're rather equal opportunity in their approach may be appealing to you...I don't know. it's actually pretty simple. the hard part is finding where these people are and eliminating them. until the threat ends and the methods change there is no negotiating. the gauntlet has already been laid down.

[Riggo-toni]

Jack,

It's actually good to hear you finally stating an opinion.

I think it is a valid point that attacking Iraq may become a significant impediment to receiving cooperation from Arab governments in our fight against terrorism. However, with the collapse of the Arab's biggest ally, the USSR, most of them will be ultimately coerced into accepting a marriage of convenience with America. It is a combination of money talks, and the fact that the religious fanatics attacking us also consider the Arab leaders to be apostates who must be removed to restore the purity of Islam to the Arab world. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Any war against Iraq will be swift and overwhelming. That's the good news. The bad news is that the aftermath will be unmanageable, at least in the way the current administration reportedly envisions it. Iraq cannot exist as a democratic nation because it is not a nation. It is a b@stard empire created by the British in a horrid attempt to leave the oil supply in the hands of a friendly Hashemite dynasty. (Isn't it ironic that the only Hashemite dynasty that survived is in oil-deprived Jordan?)

The only way that the Mesopotamian area that is now Iraq can thrive as a democracy is if it is allowed to break up into several countries - a proposition rendered impossible because of the potential repercussions felt in Turkey (a vital US ally) and Syria regarding the creation of an independent Kurdish state.

Kurdistan should become a reality - they have more of a right to a homeland than the Palestinians and have continually allied themselves with the US, despite the fact that we have continually screwed them at our convenience.

The Shiites in the south should also be allowed to separate from the tyrannical Sunni and Tikrit regimes that have suppressed them. This, however, is an anathema to the US, which fears such an oil-rich nation would quickly align themselves with the world's largest Shiite country - Iran.

JackC, I look forward to your insightful rebuttals/reply

[NavyDave]

I just don't understand how a real man can be a liberal.

I can understand weak females, tree huggers,misguided and ignorant minorities, baby killers and butt pirates because of their ideologies but not real men.

And I do question the loyalty of the left when it comes to showing if they are true americans then again when the libs just sit on the sidelines heckling while we run the bases it not surprising.

[JackC]

- what is your evidence that the Iraqi policy has damaged our position in the world? how does this damage translate to practical consequences?

I noted news stories about both Pakistan and Turkey where their governments can't give us as much as we want with regard to bases and the like because a large segment of their population is so anitamerican. We've even pushed large segments of the Europeans to become antiamerican. This can not be a desirable development.

- how do you know that what you see on television parallels (or doesn't) what is actually happening in the "noise"?

How do you know it doesn't? There are so many news sources these days I doubt this stuff could be wrong.

- why would cooperation from a diverse group of arab interests make this any easier? unless you can forward a plan/course of action for how this should be handled you don't have a measuring rod.

Get real. The terrorists aren't hiding in England for the most part. If you want to find them where they are (in Arab counties, and the far eat) you need the cooperation of the governments there. If you can't see that than I'm wasting my time.

- the areas you are thinking of in pakistan aren't under any government's formal control. this has been reported by organizations liks 60 minutes for quite a while.

What's your point here. Pissing off even the moderate citizens makes the whole search even more difficult. I would bet the Pakistanian police would be more effective getting needed information from these people than without them.

- turkey in an uproar? what are the numbers? is the government threatening to resign? are millions hitting the street? what interest groups are represented? this is tantatmount to stating that the US population is against globalism based on the protests at world bank/IMF etc. meetings....hardly the case.

-

The government is not giving us free reign with regard to air space and bases. They have in the past given us a blank check in this area. The can't do this now because they are afraid of what will happen with their population. Some of this has to do with the Kurd problem but mostly it's the new Antiamericanism going on there.

what is the good of this nation?

OK let's invade them too I guess. Maybe the only arab country in NATO isn't a good enough reason to keep them around.

- what are our national security interests? and spare me the gibberish about "this is all about oil"

None that I can see. We have had Iraq pinned in for a long time now. We proved during the cold war that this strategy can work for a long time with or without WOMD's.

- while agreeing that "problem resolution" should be attempted on multiple levels, it is clear that negotiating has not brought great progress thus far. what sort of multi-pronged approach do you propose?

I propose we keep the embargo and the no fly zones and go find OBL.

please keep the hyperbole to a minimum....i'm not aware of any living American who advocates conquering the Arab world. what a burden that would be!!! no....most perceive a viscearal threat and want to kill the source of the problem before they kill us and our families. these folks are planning to kill me, YOU, your family, my family - citizens of other countries...that they're rather equal opportunity in their approach may be appealing to you...I don't know. it's actually pretty simple. the hard part is finding where these people are and eliminating them. until the threat ends and the methods change there is no negotiating. the gauntlet has already been laid down.

I don't think these people are in Iraq. I've seen no clear link proven between 9/11 and Bagdad so pick up the gauntlet and let's hunt down OBL and put his head on a stick. That should have been our number one purpose for awhile now!

[JackC]

Originally posted by NavyDave

I just don't understand how a real man can be a liberal.

I can understand weak females, tree huggers,misguided and ignorant minorities, baby killers and butt pirates because of their ideologies but not real men.

And I do question the loyalty of the left when it comes to showing if they are true americans then again when the libs just sit on the sidelines heckling while we run the bases it not surprising.

You and people like you don't deserve to live in America. Most of your posts here prove you have no respect for anyone except the ones that look like you.

This is not a nation run by the military. They military is a necessary evil give the world in which we live. The citizens of this nation are not here to support the military bases!

The language you use (baby killer, butt pirates...(I wonder why you harp on that term? I have a guess but I won't share)) makes you appear stupid. Your lack of intelligence is probably the reason you think you're a "real" man and a "real" American. You can't be a liberal because that require actual thought which you don't seem capable.

I think you and people like you are the cause of most problems in this country now and for the previous 100 years. The sooner your ilk are out of the picture the better our nation can become.

Did you recieve a head injury in the Navy? The only conservative people I know are too stupid to know better and they just follow the hords.

[luckydevil]

Iraq does have ties to terrorist groups like Abu Nidal organization (ANO)( they in fact have their base in Iraq), Hamas, Hizballah, Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK)( who attacks our friend and ally in Turkey),and Palestine Liberation Front ( all their support comes pretty much from Iraq).

[Kilmer17]

Pot calling the kettle black perhaps?????

"The sooner your ilk are out of the picture the better our nation can become.

Did you recieve a head injury in the Navy? The only conservative people I know are too stupid to know better and they just follow the hords."

If it wasn't for our military, you wouldn't have the right to be the ignoramus that you are. You'd be speaking German or Japanese or still sipping tea at 4 oclock.

[fansince62]

Jack......keep to the message.....believe it or not...I'm trying to give you a fair shake and see where your thinking is headed. but, with amazing consistency, you do the very thing you routinely charge and convict others for: you generalize too easily from anecdotal postings on this board...in the process slandering a whole group of people. don't you see that you have been doing the very thing you profess to detest?

[JackC]

Originally posted by Kilmer17

Pot calling the kettle black perhaps?????

"The sooner your ilk are out of the picture the better our nation can become.

Did you recieve a head injury in the Navy? The only conservative people I know are too stupid to know better and they just follow the hords."

If it wasn't for our military, you wouldn't have the right to be the ignoramus that you are. You'd be speaking German or Japanese or still sipping tea at 4 oclock.

Kilmer I admit I did stoop to his level but I find it a little hypocritical of you to have a problem with what I said and not have a problem with the post which triggered the response in the first place.

The stuff in your last paragraph I choose to ignore because although we don't agree much I have come to respect your opinion on some things.

[Kilmer17]

I think I'll just stay out of this from this point on.

I do enjoy debating you Jack, but I dont really have a horse in this race.

[JackC]

Originally posted by fansince62

Jack......keep to the message.....believe it or not...I'm trying to give you a fair shake and see where your thinking is headed. but, with amazing consistency, you do the very thing you routinely charge and convict others for: you generalize too easily from anecdotal postings on this board...in the process slandering a whole group of people. don't you see that you have been doing the very thing you profess to detest?

You're right. I have learned to return fire in kind when I get one of those "real men" or "real Americans" can't be liberal BS posts. I can only try to refrain from that sort of thing in the future.

[fansince62]

not what I was asking. how do you know that the interactions behind the scenes are not very different from what you see on television? you don't.

again.... you have adroitly avoided defining what our security interests are and defining a plan of action. the 3 methods you present have been in play for at least the last 10 years and have accomplished little to nothing. your personal risk analysis may lead you to believe that decades long embargoes and other economic/human pressures are enough to mitigate WMDs - others disagree and are not willing to let you risk our families. do you really believe that the Saudhi's, Egyptians, Syrians, Iranians, et al, are going to band together under ANY circumstances to help fight terrorism? or are you proposing separate, bilateral coordination with every arab interest group? these are not homogenous societies any more than they are uniformly under one religious sect or government. it's precisely because of the heterogeneity that we can get the information we need without necessarily having to negotiate with hostile government leaders.

- side notes:

1) many Europeans have always been anti-american (kind of a birthright), many have not. again...what are the practical consequences? what is really happening when it comes to the flow of information and resources? details please.......if you're going to argue that this has damaging consequences you need to specify, not proseltyze.....

2) what's happening in turkey right now? what missions are being flown out of the bases? what assets are in place? you don't know, so why make statements that you can't back up?

3) what exactly is a moderate Pakistani? i'm not sure these sorts of political categories are even transferrable. there's a huge black market in Pakistan along the afghan border, as reported by 60 minutes, for weapons, biological WMDs, and other things. these areas are tribal and out of control of the pakistani government. that was the point I was trying to make. POing the Pakistani government won't change that risk.

4) are you suggesting that US national security policy should be based on how the mob in the street reacts? you did not answer my question on the numbers and constitution of the protest groups - because you don't know.

5) by good of this nation I meant the US. Please bless us with your grand vision for what is good for us.

6) do you honestly think that finding OBL is an end state? look how these guys are organized, how they plan, how they execute. this is not an instance in which lopping the head kills the snake. you have to find all of them and you have to hold their abettors accountable.

7) do you honestly think that OBL et al are not receiving tacit support of some kind from various Arab states? the money continues to flow and so do the people.

Reading Al Queda for OBL, you are right that this is a number 1 priority. But that doesn't negate our responsibility to address other threats after careful consideration of the consequences. If you feel the course being charted isn't the correct one, then you have to define what these consequences are and how they represent greater risks than the possibility of uncontrolled WMDs.

[Sarge]

JackC,

You know, I was almost impressed with you reply to Fansince62. Almost. You are moving along from the standard shrill “Bush is the AntiChrist” one answer fits all reply that you have stuck with for awhile now. This suggests learning is possible and that there may be hope for you yet. I was even going to chime in and correct a few misconceptions from one of your earlier post for your informational purposes. Then I read your reply to NavyDave, and I gotta admit, you pissed me off.

“You and people like you don't deserve to live in America. Most of your posts here prove you have no respect for anyone except the ones that look like you.”

Are you throwing me in there as well, Jack? I’m pretty certain I don’t look like ND, although we share a lot of the same views. And just out of curiosity, in your little fantasy world, who does deserve to live here? Spoken like a true communist or Nazi JackC. And you call us extreme. Way to go Jack.

“This is not a nation run by the military. They military is a necessary evil give the world in which we live. The citizens of this nation are not here to support the military bases!”

As a pop icon once said,” Bevis, you dumb$$” Guess what? If you paid your taxes last year, like all good liberals do without question, you are supporting military bases and the military in general. I know you like to think your money is going to help illegal immigrants and save trees and such, but in reality it is more than likely going to the military. I know this probably tortures your liberal soul, and I gotta admit, that thought is rather pleasing. If it weren’t for the military protecting your right to say stupid, uninformed things like you do, and/or live in a fantasy world like you do, you’d either be speaking Japanese or German or Russian. Russian actually would probably be right up your left winged communist alley, wouldn’t it?

“The language you use (baby killer, butt pirates...(I wonder why you harp on that term? I have a guess but I won't share)) makes you appear stupid. Your lack of intelligence is probably the reason you think you're a "real" man and a "real" American. You can't be a liberal because that require actual thought which you don't seem capable.”

I’m sorry these phrases offend your “sensitive” side. I use phrases like butt pirate, turd burgler, tree hugger, baby killer etc, if warranted. And despite your apparent stereotype of all military personnel being hairy knuckle draggers, I will tell you that I have a Master’s degree in both history and political science. It actually required some thought and effort. As for being liberal, that does not require thought. It requires making decisions based on emotions. Do what feels good. Rules? Laws?…well, if they hurt somebodies feelings, lets get rid of them or ignore them altogether. I think we all can see the effect those types of policies have had on national security from 1992-2000.

“The sooner your ilk are out of the picture the better our nation can become.”

Ilk? Is that the best you can do? The last “president” thought the same way and tried to get the military and intelligence/security apparatus ilk “out of the picture” by gutting them until we almost couldn’t function. Are you happy with what that policy got us? And if you aimed that “ilk” comment at the military in general, I‘ll say I would much rather associate with my fellow veterans than with spineless, conviction less, weak-dicked momma’s boys that have never had the guts to stand up and fight for anything in their entire lives. I suspect you know full well what a “Super Wedgee” is from your school days, and probably did nothing about it when you got one. I further suspect this probably set the tone for the rest of your life. Tell me I’m wrong.

Now, as for some of the points from your earlier post, I’ll let you in on a few facts. I would submit that instead of basing your opinions on what Dan Rather and/or Tom Brokaw feed you at night, you would actually listen to folks on this board who have first hand experience in some of these matters and form your opinions afterward. That is how most logical, informed people form opinions. Here we go;

“Get real. The terrorists aren't hiding in England for the most part. If you want to find them where they are (in Arab counties, and the far eat) you need the cooperation of the governments there. If you can't see that than I'm wasting my time.”

You are right (I can’t believe I just said that) Terrorist are not hiding in England. They are pretty much I plain sight there. But just so you know, we are currently in several un-named countries as I write, looking for terrorist and other a$$wipes that need to be disposed of. One of those countries starts with “I” and ends with “RAQ”. Shhhhhh. It’s secret! I’m pretty certain however that uncle hussain is not helping us find these losers. So your statement that we need the cooperation of any of their governments is unfounded.

"The government is not giving us free reign with regard to air space and bases. They have in the past given us a blank check in this area. The can't do this now because they are afraid of what will happen with their population. Some of this has to do with the Kurd problem but mostly it's the new Antiamericanism going on there."

Let me let you in on another little secret involving Turkey. I just got back from there not too long ago. Every day of the week, they let us fly out of Incerlik AFB to enforce the no fly zone in northern Iraq. Every day except Friday. You know what happens on Friday’s? On Fridays the Turkish Air Force takes off and goes and bombs Kurds. Neat, huh? And we don't say a word about it. Such is the policy of "You scratch our backs, we'll scratch yours." Otherwise, we have free reign. Turkey is not worried about their population. They are pretty mellow in general (except for the radical minority) and if they do get out of hand, well, Turkish prisons are not the plush resorts that we call prisons here. Prisons there are what I wish prisons here would emulate. That might actually deter people from committing crimes. But as for the Turks, the only thing they are worried about is a flood of Kurdish immigrants coming into their country fleeing the war. Now, if we play it right, we will annex northern Iraq after th war and give it to the Kurds, thus alleviating the immigrant problem.

I don’t know what else to say to you, JackC. I know it is horrible to be in an ever shrinking minority of political thought, one that is teetering on the verge of extinction. Perhaps this explains your uninformed replies to many of these posts. But it has always amazed me how anyone can “loath” the military or consider us “ilk”. I hope that is not really your position, because if it is, I think that is indeed un-American. And I can only pity you having to defend it.

[luckydevil]

The difference between a republican and a democrat

is democrats think with their heart

republicans think with their head

[Sarge]

Here you go JackC and others. Sometimes this site publishes stuff I think doesn't need to be published, but it's accuracy cannot be disputed. A good Sunday read;

Washington Gathers Own Evidence of Saddam’s WMD

December 7, 2002, 4:58 PM (GMT+02:00)

Bush already has proof from field of Iraq`s unconventional weapons

Running circles around the UN arms inspection headed by Swedish diplomat Hans Blix, the Iraqi government dropped a massive pile of documents – its reply to the UN Security Council demand for a full accounting of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction – in the laps of the international media Saturday, December 7, before allowing Blix a peek. The presentation was accompanied by yet another formal denial that Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction.

The 11,880 pages on CD-Rom, landing with a thud in Baghdad, will not reach UN Headquarters in New York before late Sunday, exactly on the dot of the Security Council deadline.

Saddam’s demonstration of openness is in fact another exercise in obfuscation. It will take the world media and the world body days to digest the forbidding mass, particularly when parts are in Arabic and sections are historic and will need to be matched up. It also makes sly fun of Blix’s solemn pledge to hold back sensitive nuclear, chemical and biological data that might be used as recipes for the proliferation of such weapons – even from Security Council members, including the United States.

Washington in any case had no expectation of substance from the UN inspectors.

Thursday, December 5, the White House declared it already had “solid evidence” that Iraq does indeed have weapons of mass destruction. Where did that evidence come from?

DEBKA-Net-Weekly (No. 88, Dec. 6) called on its military sources to divulge the secret, independent inspection project launched by the United States well before the UN Security Council sent its inspectors to Iraq.

This project is in the hands of a special multinational task force made up of special elite units and armed with combat helicopters and aircraft, spy-planes and satellites. Unlike the Blix outfit, which is based in Baghdad, the alternative investigators are fanned out across the country. One well-placed source disclosed: “Our men in the field know where 90 percent of Saddam’s missiles and unconventional weapons systems are located, even the mobile ones that are moved from place to place every hour. We are keeping them under tight, on-site observation because when the war begins we want to be there before Saddam orders his men to hit the triggers.”

According to our sources, this highly sensitive, elaborate and secret inspection project has been going for more than three months. Its success could pre-determine the course of the war before it begins. Its members are drawn from the United States, Britain, Jordan and Turkey and possibly Israel. They operate under the Special Forces command at Al Udeid in Qatar and its sub-command in the Jordanian base of Mafraq.

For the purpose of the search, Iraq has been divided into 16 squares, each the province of an elite unit for a set period. The Talil air base complex in north Iraq, for instance, with its air fields, missile bases and air defense batteries, was assigned for the first three weeks of December to US special forces.

When these units end their tour of duty, they return to base and are replaced.

All the units on this mission are briefed down to the last detail on the unconventional weapons in their zone, their precise locations and the names of the Iraqi officers and men assigned to each site. They keep watch around the clock over the comings and goings inside those sites and are on the ready at all times to move in and seize the facility if ordered to do so.

Conscious of those watchful eyes, the Iraqis have made almost all their weapons systems mobile and shift them perpetually. Each of these elite units is afforded broad autonomy of action. They may call up reinforcements as needed, or air assistance from their home base. The Turkish northern Iraqi observation unit, for example, is in the care of the south Turkish military command. Any urgent medical aid requirement will therefore be supplied by the Turkish air force.

However, when aerial bombardment is called for to prevent the movement of weapons from one square to another, or air cover is required in the frequent cases of the special units coming under artillery or tank gun fire, the request for aerial assistance is routed through the US headquarters in Qatar or Jordan and US and UK warplanes scramble to raid Iraqi military targets.

Most of the dozens of “Western” or “allied” air sorties against Iraqi ground targets that are reported every few days are connected, DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s military sources can reveal, with Iraq’s maneuvers for concealing its weapons of mass destruction.

DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s sources say that this invisible arms inspection project has a dual purpose: it locks suspected weapons of mass destruction in position under close observation; it harvests the data inaccessible to the UN inspection teams and holds it ready for the Bush administration whenever it is called for.

The White House is therefore able to call on General Tommy Franks, commander of the Iraqi sector, to produce the evidence needed to prove Iraq’s mountainous declaration false. All the general needs do is to order the elite unit guarding any one of the 16 squares to seize a weapons system, possibly with its Iraqi crew.

Since no one has any notion of how Saddam Hussein will react to this denouement, all American and allied forces in the Middle East and the Gulf were put on a high state of preparedness as of Wednesday, December 4. General Franks’ arrival at the Qatari rear base of Al Udeid on Friday, December 6, was timed accordingly.

The story going around the Gulf, according to DEBKAfile’s sources, is that in the week since the UN inspection team started work, it has been well penetrated by Iraqi agents.The most disturbing aspect of this - and the reason for the sharp responses coming from the White House - is that the spies have managed to fit "electronic jackets" on the UN measuring instruments, which throw them off and make them emit false data. The technical assistants, some from Arab countries, are also thoroughly infiltrated by Iraqi intelligence.

uncle saddams a$$ is grass not long after this all goes down. Good to know there are competent people on the job to clea up the mess the UN is making.

[JackC]

Air Sarge,

Sorry you got all worked up and had to spin so long. If you had taken the time to read my thread after Navy Dave's thread you would realize it was a heated response to statementa made by ND which were absurd and stupid. Please reread and relax. Unless you're a hypocrite and only get mad when generalizations are made against people on your side of the aisle.

Republicans think with their head! ROTFLMAO! That's the funniest thing I've heard all day thanks! PS they can't think with their hearts because they don't have one!