TwoDeep3 Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Notice the leadership qualities of Shottenheimer. Not talking to his starting quarterback for three days after the benching. Man, what a friggin' football genius. ********************************************* Excerpts from FoxSports.com article, George Breaks His Silence, Downplays QB Leadership: George refused to discuss any details of the 30-3 loss to the San Diego Chargers, including his four turnovers, his animated sideline discussion with coach Marty Schottenheimer or the coach's decision to replace George with Tony Banks in the third quarter. "I didn't want to talk about what happened last week," George said. "I thought it was best for the team. And to be honest, I thought it was best for me. I didn't want to deal with it. And I'm not going to deal with it. So in my mind what's in the past is in the past. This is obviously just something I want to put behind me and move forward. The best thing to do is not bring it up." On Wednesday, Schottenheimer acknowledged George might be violating his contract by not talking to the media. His teammates had noticed, too. "Don't let 'em break you, Jeff! Don't let 'em break you, J.G.!" yelled defensive end Marco Coleman, noticing the crowd of reporters around George. "Power to the people!" After the game, Schottenheimer waited three days before talking with George and telling him he would start the next game. George wouldn't talk about any of that, except in very general terms. "When things go good, you get the credit," George said. "When things go bad, that's the nature of the position. Last week, we got our butts kicked, and we're trying to move forward. ... There's so much more room for improvement, not just at the quarterback position, but at every position." "That leadership stuff, that's all overrated," George said. "If you win, you're doing everything right. The bottom line is you have to win. "My team knows that I'm there for them, and I know that they'll be there for me. That leadership stuff has never been a concern. It's just something that's always brought up when something goes bad." George said the sore shoulder that caused him to miss most of training camp has hurt the offense's development, but he said he didn't want to make that an excuse. He did say the game plan against the Chargers backfired because the Redskins kept in too many people to block, making it tough to find an open receiver in the secondary. "They fooled us. They just prepared a lot better than we did," George said. "We expected one thing, and they did the other. And we didn't have an answer." "From the way we played last week, going on the road, there's no doubt we should be the underdogs, and that's fine," George said. "We're probably going to be underdogs the rest of the year. Until we prove we're a good team, that's what we deserve." ********************************************* Go ahead and circle the wagon and rewrite history on this. Your squad hired someone that the game has passed up and a starting quarterback hand picked by Snyder that has malcontent written all over his face. And now educate me why Banks should be the logical pick. A guy with an ego problem that doesn't get it. He is a journeyman QB in this league and always will be. Of course Art has always said George is the key to the season and that as fans you must pray that Banks can bloom late for the position to be settled, so at least there's reality there and not delusions that I write. [<IMG SRC="http://www.extremeskins.com/ubb/edited.gif" border=0> by TwoDeep3 on September 21, 2001.] [<IMG SRC="http://www.extremeskins.com/ubb/edited.gif" border=0> by TwoDeep3 on September 21, 2001.] [ by Art on September 21, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Whose turn is it to take out the trash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Not trash.......Omy........my man two-deep speaks the truth.....Marty and George are made for each other (should've thrown in Lil Lord Fauntleroy up in his skybox too.) ------------------ The Truth shall set you free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 I haven't even read the post above. However, I have to ask if Two Deep recalls a few weeks ago his statements calling Quincy Carter the most talented and most able rookie QB in the league, including Vick, who has more questions than Carter. I ought to NEVER hear the words that I'm delusional when I've been writing throughout the offseason that the hopes for the team hinge on George and how far he takes us. Of course, I said all that prior to the acquisition of Banks and I believe just after the Banks signing, so, perhaps you missed it creating the Quincy Carter is draft gold speech you gave your board. It's also curious to me how a coach who three years ago coached a 13-3 team somehow has been madly bypassed by the game. Football has really come a long way in three years, eh? Is that it Two Deep? Problems everywhere and not a drop if intelligence to be seen. ------------------ Doom is in the box. [ by Art on September 21, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Speaking of a well-matched pair, tooshallow and bucky make a sweet couple, don't you think? Try dragging those two icons together and tell me those cuties aren't made for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Ok, missy, whatever you say. Truth is, the whole concept of you and "your man" is too troubling for me to deal with today. I guess one man's (using the term advisedly) "truth" is another man's friction. What a team. I won't stand between you. Trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Hmmm......the team's hopes rest on how far George will take them, but then you say that the game 1 debacle wasn't George's fault......this despite plentiful evidence to the contrary (8-18 2 picks, fumbles)..........if the team isn't going anywhere unless George takes them, then that would seem to explain game 1 perfectly, my dimwitted raconteur. By the way, your premise is as foolish as usual. The Skins will go as far as its OL takes it this year. No strong running game and pass protection and you could have Slingin' Sammy Baugh or Steve Young back there and you wouldn't win a game. ------------------ The Truth shall set you free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 c'mon Omy. havin' a bad hair day? It's Friday and we're trying to return to normal here........a little smack talk before the weekend's games is required, though in your case we get to do it again Monday. ------------------ The Truth shall set you free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 I used to work for a manager that would immediately turn a deaf ear the minute you brought a problem to him. As soon as he figured out that you were talking about some problem he'd cut you off and say, "Don't tell me your problem, tell me your solution." If you didn't have one he'd tell you to come back when you did. So, what would you have done in Snyder's shoes? What backup quarterback would you have chosen instead of George. What would you do today to fix the problem? Who would you have signed instead of Banks? Please keep in mind the other variables like salary cap, etc. ------------------ "The Kurp" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 OK Kurp........here's a smarter play. Snyder's first mistake was signing George, a known loser and malcontent. His second mistake was making it known he preferred George to Brad Johnson and forcing Robiskie to start him. If he hadn't done those things, you'd still have Brad Johnson, who despite the revisionist history on this board, was 17-10 as the Skins starter over 2 seasons, and 7-4 last year vs 1-4 for George. Given the George damage was done, a better back-up should've been signed than Banks. I realize the cap was tight, but adding another loser in desperation didn't help. ------------------ The Truth shall set you free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Ru, it's hard to twist words that are stated and easily reviewed. I said I place more blame on the coaching staff for the loss against the Chargers than I do on George. I've fully explained this. I've explained it by indicating I questioned the game plan and lack of adjustments. I've explained it by indicating that Banks was equally as frustrated moving the team. I've explained it by indicating that every skill player on the offensive roster seemed to be totally gone, and either they are simply atrocious players, or you look back to Raye's/Marty's plan and calling and point the finger there. This is all factually true. Though that's the case, it's certainly possible that none of those factors were behind the loss. It's possible George was the sole factor. It just doesn't seem to fit when we know the players and coaches have discussed the limitations in the passing game being related to being outnumbered on routes. Even Marty has said it's a balance that must be struck to be successful in the passing game, and it wasn't against the Chargers. I'm sure you'd like to make things easier to comprehend when you place blame because anything that requires a moment of thought sends crushing pain through your head, but, the rest of us will continue to attempt to honestly and fairly address what actually happened in the opener. You may continue avoiding the questions about your team's performance in so doing, as we recognize inspection of the Bucs Bandwagon might lead you to hop off after mere days on board ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Artie....the only things atrocious on this board are you spelling and grammar. I certainly wasn't "indicating" as you put it, all of the players. You said George was the key to the team's destiny, not me. George sucked in game 1 and you lost. By your own theory, you should blame him. Your argument about Banks is typically crayonic. Replacing a bad quarterback with a terrible quarterback is supposed to yield improvement? Banks is to good quarterbacking what you are to football knowledge and a good haircut. Listen cupcake. Your team lost because it's lines are weak and played poorly. George and the other fumblers merely made the final score worse than it needed to be..... But I'm sure you can jump right back on the George bandwagon (plenty of room, you'll be alone, but that's a normal condition for you, I'm sure)for Monday night! ------------------ The Truth shall set you free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Missy dear, I don't have enough hair left to worry about it. I can see where it might matter to you, though, so I understand your concern. And listen, if the occasional drive-by diarrhea you and InTooDeep (who brings a whole new meaning to "in over his head") choose to drop here from time to time is what you consider "smack" ... well, it just ain't worth it. Plus, there's plenty of guys around here more adept at that game that I. Feel free to try harder, though. I might weigh in if properly aroused. Got it in ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Unlike you Omy, I can always rise to the occasion. Artie makes an easy target because of his developed ability to shred lesser fools and bigger ones such as myself. As that fool, I have no problem singling myself out for ridicule and embarrassment. Would you have me believe you too would treat me badly? Other than that, it's tough these days. The events of last week have me bummed. ------------------ The Truth shall set you free. [ by Art on September 21, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Ru, If you have difficulty understanding various words in the English language, I'd offer you the advice to look up what you don't understand so you don't appear as benighted. Regardless, the point has not changed and your failure to understand what's being said is your own weakness. Not mine. George remains a key to this football team, though it's possible Banks can be more involved, which would hardly inspire much joy at present. But there were factors in the opener that tend to point to other problems in the opener other than George. While I have said George has got to be the guy the success or failure of the season rests on, I've also said Marty's coaching has created fundamentally sound football teams that tend not to make mistakes and become its own worst enemy. After one game, the second statement seems more incorrect than the first. After two games, it could swing back. I know you think football is static in nature, and your recent appearance as a Bucs fan somehow guarantees a title, but, honestly, Ru, football is a very complex game, where any number of factors can be present to dictate what happens in any given situation. If you need help understanding what happens on the field, continue asking us for assistance and I'm sure we can further bring you up to speed. Probably just in time for you to trade in uniforms. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Felonious.........if you still think that "indicating" all the players is an issue, I suggest you consult Merriam Webster and then enroll yourself in whatever remedial reading programs there are down there in hill-billy country. I realize that the hardest 4 years of your life were 3rd grade, but try and untangle your tortured logic before you get diahrea of the word processor again. You simplfied the season to George's success, and now you're blaming the complex game of football and all it's mysteries. Wake-up, sizzle chest, your lines are weak, your coach has 30 new players, there was no cap room so you're scanning the waiver wire for starters, and you have a certified (and certifiable) loser at QB......seems simple to me. ------------------ The Truth shall set you free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Er.. Bucs, not good enough. You didn't tell me who you'd have signed in the off-season instead of George. Remember a couple of things before you answer. Johnson was in the last year of his contract - he was going to cost a lot of money to keep. I would also dispute that we won those games *because* of Johnson. In fact, George had a higher QB rating than Johnson. Johnson was acting unprofessionally since Snyder refused to re-sign him prior to the season. Smart move in my book. Johnson was starting to loft chickens in the air during the 1999 season and continued that performance throughout 2000. He seemed more concerned about his completion ratio than he was about winning. In fact, I knew the Redskins were in trouble because when asked, Johnson said his main goal for the 2000 season was to improve his completion ratio over the previous year. Hello? How about stating that your goal is to win enough games to make it to the Super Bowl? No, Johnson was infuriating to watch in 2000. He made some stupid decisions under pressure and I for one am extremely glad we didn't stuck, ala Deion, with a heft contract for an average quarterback who's becoming prone to injury and who's mental toughness is questionable. But I guess Bucs fans will find out the hard way soon enough. In any case, I want names. Who instead of George? Who if not Banks? Remember now, I'm giving you the luxury of drawing on hindsight here. ------------------ "The Kurp" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Ru, you precious little school girl you. Do you not realize that indicating means pointing out? That's a specific definition of the word? And in the posts above, the word indicating was used three times and in each case to describe what I said after the opener. I'm astounded I even have to lecture you over the use of a word even special education students such as yourself learn in the early years of life. I know you try very hard to be a bright little drummer boy, but, when you so lack the ability to even communicate with others, it forces many of us to pity you and the rest to mock you. In both cases, I'm sure you are aware of such characteristics from others. I know that as a weeks-long Bucs fan, you haven't really seen enough good football to know how to explain a poor performance. Some of us do. And, it's probably not wildly incorrect to assess a performance after the fact based upon what happened during a contest rather than what you predicted might happen before it. The Redskins, as I've predicted, will start slowly this year. The offensive line is superior to many in the league, including Tampa's, and the defensive line has to step up, as it did against the Chargers, for the team to be successful. We didn't lose to the Chargers because of weakness along the lines. We lost to the Chargers for any number of reasons. You can have any guess you want on that. I have mine. Others have their thoughts. It just seems to me that everyone else seems to understand it better than you do, though that's hardly a surprise. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Kurpie....I didn't think you were a revisionist. So, all Brad did was win games and George lost them, but you like George because his mediocre rating was a few ticks higher than Brad's? Look in the mirror babe. That argument reminds me of the Flutie / Johnson debate in Buffalo. They chose the loser with the big arm too. One note on winning. One QB has taken you to the playoffs in 8 years. WAKE-UP? Who else besides Banks? Anybody! Grbac, Green, Hasselbeck, Detmer, heck, even Dilfer beat him out in Baltimore.....this is NOT a toughie. ------------------ The Truth shall set you free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Now hold on Art, that's not fair. Even a YEARS-long Bucs fan hasn't seen enough good football to know his arse from his elbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 what I find really amusing is that on this thread we have fans of two teams in Dallas and Tampa who engaged in an ugly opener of their own 10-6 seeking to advise Redskins fans on how to organize an offense The Bucs are on their third quarterback in three years and their third offensive coordinator as well. The new import, Brad Johnson, completed TWENTY FIVE passes in the opener yet the team only had ONE touchdown to show for it. What did Brad do, complete a series of 1 yard passes? (just like he did in Washington :evil And as far as Dallas goes, here is a team that is itself scraping the bottom of the barrel for players. Backup quarterbacks? At least Tony Banks has started 61 NFL games and thrown for 2,000 yards and 17 td's in a season. What has Anthony Wright ever done? Wasn't he the #3 on the Steelers and then waived before coming to Dallas? And what of the ill-fated move to pick up perennial crybaby Ryan Leaf? If you think Jeff George has a chip on his shoulder you should start rolling some tapes of Leaf in San Diego. So, until I see something better than 5-11 out of Dallas or I see the Bucs actually finish a season with a fearful offense, I don't think you guys have much to look down your nose at. 'cause when it comes to offense I don't see any Peyton Mannings or Randy Mosses on YOUR teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Hey Froggy, Nobody's lookin' down their noses at the Skins. I'm just driving Artie nuts as usual and sending him scrambling to his research to try and rebut. I'm a big Skins fan this week. SQUEEZE THE CHEESE! ------------------ The Truth shall set you free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Ru, don't let facts interfere with your information. Wouldn't it have been impossible to have signed or traded for any of the quarterbacks you listed when none were available when Banks was signed? Or should we have gone to the teams that had previously acquired each of those players and attempted to pry them away? Johnson has fine qualities as a quarterback. It happens that his positive traits tend to be the precise negative traits for George. He's been a fairly good winner, an intelligent player and one who generally wins the players on his team over. Likewise, George's positive traits are the where Johnson is weak. You may well be correct that Johnson would have been a better choice than George at this moment. I can't argue that. I've stated that I feel George will be, ultimately, a better player for us. We'll all judge better and know more as the games continue. And no matter what, we'll never know how we would have done with Johnson. We'll only know how we did with George. After a week, I don't think it proved to be a poor choice to keep Jeff over Brad. That it may have been a poor choice won't really be known for a little while. If George throws for 400 yards and the Redskins win, while Johnson continues nailing those five yard dump offs, I'm sure we'll have a different conversation next week . Not that I'm predicting that. . ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Umm, Ru. Honestly, I don't have to research what the word indicate means. So, you are failing very badly to drive me crazy. Meanwhile, it does appear you are approaching your typical irrationality when confronted by better information than you know a counter to. The ice cream is always waiting on you at home little buddy. Don't let it get to you. And why is it that I'm positive your, "I'm a Skins fan this week," phrase is one you utter frequently inserting different team names as you struggle to latch on to the bandwagon at the right time . Next year, you can pick Tennessee or something. Don't worry. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted September 21, 2001 Share Posted September 21, 2001 Bucs, the last time I counted there are 11 guys on offense. If all it took to win games was a decent quarterback then the Redskins would've been a dynasty under Sonny Jurgensen. In fact, let's talk about Dilfer. Or how about Steve Young? How is it these quarterbacks played for Tampa yet the Bucs still sucked Lake Apopka water (inside Florida joke). How is it that Steve Young goes on to be a Hall of Famer and Dilfer goes on to win a Super Bowl with another team? Your names in place of Banks isn't very well thought out. None of these guys would've signed for what Marty had in terms of salary cap room. One more thing. How's your copy of Merriam's book holding up? Did the dog chew up the "D" pages? "Diahrea" is spelled d-i-a-r-r-h-e-a. Just thought I'd point that out since you're a stickler for spelling. ------------------ "The Kurp" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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