Wolf, Cerrato, and Mendes

[Murilo Bustamante]

Of these three, the best choice for us right now is Cerrato.

Wolf- the fact is, the guy has no more Super Bowl rings than Vinny. And when Favre has played like an ordinary QB, his teams have looked ordinary. Furthermore, he doesn't know our players well. He'll come in, and cut guys we just drafted that may have something but he hasn't heard of them. We need some stability at the Skins- bringing in a new, flashy GM is not the answer.

Mendes- Mendes has a horrific record as a GM, and I have no idea why he gets so much respect. He has never managed a winner to my knowledge. I believe it is Mendes who has set us up to go after "bargains" rather than players of positional need. And that is why we blew our money this year at linebacker (because that is where the "values" were) instead of filling our actual needs. Moreover, he is too tight with proven veterans, and to quick to think he can fill positions like OG and DT with last minute June cuts. Sometimes it's better to pay your veteran. Under Mendes, we'll never have cap problems, and we'll never win.

Cerrato- Vinny knows the team. Even on his off year, he studied the team. We will actually have less turnover (we need less turnover) if we keep Vinny. But Vinny has also shown he will pay to keep vets, not just trying to replace them with a June cut.

Vinny has shown a real acumen for trades, and for filling our need positions. Do you remember how we never filled LT, because there were no "bargains," and then made desperate trades to draft Andre Johnson? Vinny solved our LT problem immediately, and with a brilliant early trade. I say brilliant because the conventional wisdom was not to trade so early, and then the Jets ended up trading more to move up less. Plus the conventional wisdom was to take Warrick in that spot, not Samuels.

Vinny has also found many diamonds in the later rough, like Rock Cartwright and Justin Skaggs. And he has had some bad picks, like Ladell Betts maybe. But Beathard had bad picks too- and so has Wolf.

The argument that Vinny blew up the cap is patently false. The team was well under the cap in 2000, because CC blew up the cap in 1998 and then had to take it easy in 1999. So Vinny re-signed guys and signed some new guys, and the Redskins were NEVER outside the middle of the pack in terms of cap hits in the offseasons. We never had outrageous problems that most other teams didn't. Granted, the Bengals and Cardinals had fewer cap problems, but do we want to go there? Our whole "cap problem" has been very overstated.

Vinny seems to be, at the very least, a competent GM, and maybe a lot more. The arguments against him typically blame him for everything that goes wrong around him and give him credit for nothing good (like a 49ers Super Bowl, Chris Samuels, or re-signing Davis) that happens. We would have MORE stability with Vinny, not less, because now Vinny knows our players and will be more inclined to keep them. I think he's the best choice for Skins' GM.

[monarch34]

The first two words that come to mind and that sum up my feelings on why Vinny would be a big mistake (although many more could be used):

Deion Sanders.

[Murilo Bustamante]

Whose idea was Deion Sanders?

This is what I am talking about. Cerrato gets blamed for everything bad, and given credit for nothing good.

And by the way, Deion could still play. He beat Tampa for us that season and was still a takeaway corner except for like two (maybe just one) games. He left because Marty came, but would have stayed and probably continued to play well if we had kept Rhodes.

[Riggo-toni]

Ron Wolf found a better left tackle (Chad Clifton) in the 2nd round of the same draft than Vinny did with the 3rd pick overall. He found a better right tackle (Tauscher) in the 7th round than Casserly found with Jansen in the 2nd. Wolf found Aaron Brooks in the 4th round, Giamila (who is a better pass rusher than anyone on our roster) in the 5th. Vinny's draft record here outside of Arrington and Samuels is terrible, and it was terrible in SF as well. Crediting him for inheriting a great situation there is like crediting Switzer for winning a Super Bowl.

Ron Wolf has the best W/L record of any GM since free agency started.

[@DCGoldPants]

I hate to agree but Deion only gave up 1 TD that year.

Anyway, I think we need a young asst. GM to get bumped up. Offer it to Allen in Oakland gain. He gets to be GM for a coach who loves to throw and start working with Spurrier on what type of guys he needs.

[Buddha]

The only reason that I would NOT want Wolf is that he is currently out of football and would take time to be brought up to speed on college and pro prospects-- not to mention the Skins' own players.

I'd rather see the Skins grab a current GM whose contract expires this offseason or a promising young executive/scouting director. Get someone that is doing the research now as we speak and get that person in here right after the season ends. I don't see Cerrato as that person for reasons stated many times over-- he has no knack for finding talent and has a tendency to throw money at big name free agents to fill gaps. Mendes does not have a horrible track record as a GM because he's never been a GM. He's a capologist-- a guy that you want checking and balancing your general manager and owner. He should remain with the team in this role, checking and balancing a young upstart GM, and Cerrato should be sent back to ESPN.

[Storm]

Some Moves Wolf has made (in addition to the ones listed above):

trading for Favre,

getting Ahman Green in exchange for a mediocre quarterback (hasselbach),

picking a great DL in Vonnie Holiday late in the first round,

Mark Brunnell as Favre's Backup,

possibly most importantly finding great coaches for the team (Holgrem, Sherman)

the only positive thing Vinnie has done is pick Lavar and Samuels, but those were no brainers, everyone in the league would have probable made similar picks.

[monarch34]

So Deion, for one season, was worth all the money we gave him?!?!? I'm sorry, but good -- not great -- performance by him does not justify breaking the bank and putting us in salary cap hell. Maybe Deion in his prime was worth that much (although I doubt it), but he certainly was not at that point. That is why Vinny should not be given the keys to the bank. Let him comment on players all he wants and find diamonds in the rough if he can, but don't let him decide how much to pay them. He also way overpaid Bruce Smith. When no one else in the League was offering Bruce more than $2.5M, he gives up way more to a player everyone else knew was on the slide downward. Oh, to have a DE who could rush the passer last year or this year!

[Murilo Bustamante]

Being a takeaway corner is not "good, but not great." It's great. We had a top five defense that year and were absolutely dominant against the pass.

No way Clifton is as good as Samuels, much less better. Remember that Samuels and Jansen block for Matthews and Banks, not Favre.

Like I said, when Favre looks normal, Green Bay's teams look normal. And what about Wolf picking Rhodes as a head coach, then firing him after one year? Either that was one mistake or another. But there's no question Wolf has made some good picks. But if he, or anyone new, comes here, then you're going to see another year of cutting promising young players and bringing in new guys. And it won't work right away, so then you'll be calling for the latest GM from somewhere else (I guess this guy from the Raiders is the latest fad).

Cerrato has also made some good picks. And now they need time to develop.

[NavyDave]

Skaggs was an undrafted pick up by Marty.

Vinnie might make a fine tortellina alfredo but his ideas of putting together a team have been a recipe for disaster.

[Murilo Bustamante]

Another thing about Clifton- I don't think Clifton has not been a starter the last few years, while Samuels has. Don't be too hasty to pass out awards. We've gotten a lot more out of Samuels than Green Bay has out of Clifton.

[Riggo-toni]

Originally posted by Murilo Bustamante

Another thing about Clifton- I don't think Clifton has not been a starter the last few years, while Samuels has. Don't be too hasty to pass out awards. We've gotten a lot more out of Samuels than Green Bay has out of Clifton.

Clifton gave up one sack - count it - ONE - his rookie year. He was out with an injury for part of his 2nd, but he has been a full time starter otherwise. Clifton had a much better rookie year, Samuels had a much better 2nd year, Clifton is having a better 3rd year. Samuels cost us 2 #1s, a 10k signing bonus, and has salary cap escalators that will put us in a squeeze starting next year. Clifton came at a fraction of that. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Samuels fan, I'm just pointing out how Wolf has consistently gotten great value out of lower draft picks.

[Murilo Bustamante]

Again, who was Clifton blocking for? One of the most mobile QBs in the NFL who is a legitimate running threat. Who has Samuels blocked for? A collection of NFL misfits who are as likely to trip over the own feet as complete a pass downfield.

Given the same QB, I would take Samuels over Clifton any day.

Also, Green Bay was not in dire straits at LT when they picked Clifton. We were, and had been for five years, and we weren't solving the problem. You almost never solve your LT problems in the third round. (By the way, I remember Clifton, and he was a projected first rounder, so Wolf sort of took advantage of an NFL oversight rather than grabbing a diamond in the rough).

[Murilo Bustamante]

And in end results, Wolf has one ring, and Cerrato has one ring.

We're getting off the the point here, into whether Cerrato is as accomplished as Wolf. In terms of Super Bowl rings, yes. Otherwise, maybe not. But the question is, who would be the better GM for the Skins in 2003? Wolf, or any new GM, would come in and throw a lot of good guys out to replace with his guys. We'd be starting over again. Cerrato has brought in a lot of good players who now need a chance.

[joe]

What we need is STABILITY!!! Keeping everything the same for two years in a row would be so refreshing. Don't bring in Wolf, he is not interested. Keep both Mendes and Cerrato for next season. Their give and take is necessary. No matter what anyone thinks, you need someone to say no to spending big bucks on some players. You try to be right more often than wrong. And you need someone who is pushing for individual guys. Not changing something this offseason would be different enough after years of turmoil.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Unlike some folks, I think we had a pretty good 2002 draft. I think it's a draft that will look even better in a few years.

That said, I have to wonder if the major problem with the front office is Snyder. If I had to point to one continuing and symptomatic problem with the front office in recent years, it's a lust for free agents over current employees -- and I think that traces to Snyder.

Snyder has a terrible track record as an employer. He's a very successful businessman, but a terrible employer. He shows almost no loyalty to employees and is fond of firing employees. Repeating this pattern, he ended up firing almost every breathing employee of the Redskins when he arrived. I'm not saying that he had to retain every employee, but there is something to said for the "ghost in the machine" that comes through continuity. Just having secretaries around who remember the glory days can keep the flame alive for future generations.

While I agreed with the firing of Marty Schottenheimer (even though it's looking a bit dumb this year), I think the big mistake was letting Kurt Schottenheimer go. He was under contract, and Snyder had no obligation to release him from contract. But he fired him along with the whole staff, and then only later rethought that decision -- trying and failing to re-sign Kurt.

Mendes has put the brakes on some of Snyder's spending. But somehow we still ended up signing Trotter for big dollars, and we haven't extended Jansen, Bailey, Smoot and Daryl Gardener. Someone in the organization needs to assert the vital importance of identifying core players while they are still under contract and committing to long-term extensions. That's not happening. Until it starts happening, the front office formula is broken.

Also, the front-office/Helton "strategy" on the interior OL has been a disaster that many of us saw coming long in advance. I'd really like to know who was behind the acquisitions of guys like Stai, Moore, Vickers and Jones. (Wilbert Brown was clearly Helton's choice, and Loverne was a cheap trade bargain.)

Finally, the protracted contract dispute with Ramsey was avoidable in my mind, and primarily the fault of the front office (Mendes and Snyder). It had a major negative effect on the season.

Since I think the major problem is containing Snyder while emphasizing disciplined franchise building (core players, etc.), I do endorse Ron Wolf as the GM solution.

That said, I might keep Cerrato around as head scout, and Mendes as head contract negotiator. Their damage would be limited in those roles, and they could be overruled by Wolf when they went too far.

[tex]

Originally posted by Murilo Bustamante

Of these three, the best choice for us right now is Cerrato.

Wolf- the fact is, the guy has no more Super Bowl rings than Vinny. And when Favre has played like an ordinary QB, his teams have looked ordinary. Furthermore, he doesn't know our players well. He'll come in, and cut guys we just drafted that may have something but he hasn't heard of them. We need some stability at the Skins- bringing in a new, flashy GM is not the answer.

Mendes- Mendes has a horrific record as a GM, and I have no idea why he gets so much respect. He has never managed a winner to my knowledge. I believe it is Mendes who has set us up to go after "bargains" rather than players of positional need. And that is why we blew our money this year at linebacker (because that is where the "values" were) instead of filling our actual needs. Moreover, he is too tight with proven veterans, and to quick to think he can fill positions like OG and DT with last minute June cuts. Sometimes it's better to pay your veteran. Under Mendes, we'll never have cap problems, and we'll never win.

Cerrato- Vinny knows the team. Even on his off year, he studied the team. We will actually have less turnover (we need less turnover) if we keep Vinny. But Vinny has also shown he will pay to keep vets, not just trying to replace them with a June cut.

Vinny has shown a real acumen for trades, and for filling our need positions. Do you remember how we never filled LT, because there were no "bargains," and then made desperate trades to draft Andre Johnson? Vinny solved our LT problem immediately, and with a brilliant early trade. I say brilliant because the conventional wisdom was not to trade so early, and then the Jets ended up trading more to move up less. Plus the conventional wisdom was to take Warrick in that spot, not Samuels.

Vinny has also found many diamonds in the later rough, like Rock Cartwright and Justin Skaggs. And he has had some bad picks, like Ladell Betts maybe. But Beathard had bad picks too- and so has Wolf.

The argument that Vinny blew up the cap is patently false. The team was well under the cap in 2000, because CC blew up the cap in 1998 and then had to take it easy in 1999. So Vinny re-signed guys and signed some new guys, and the Redskins were NEVER outside the middle of the pack in terms of cap hits in the offseasons. We never had outrageous problems that most other teams didn't. Granted, the Bengals and Cardinals had fewer cap problems, but do we want to go there? Our whole "cap problem" has been very overstated.

Vinny seems to be, at the very least, a competent GM, and maybe a lot more. The arguments against him typically blame him for everything that goes wrong around him and give him credit for nothing good (like a 49ers Super Bowl, Chris Samuels, or re-signing Davis) that happens. We would have MORE stability with Vinny, not less, because now Vinny knows our players and will be more inclined to keep them. I think he's the best choice for Skins' GM.

Vinny has demonstrated, by going to Snyder behind Mendes back, that he is a backstabbing weasel. Don't you think everyone else in NFL land knows he's a weasel? My god man why would my beloved Redskins wish to sully themselves by associating with a character such as that. The Redskins are a team with a long and storied history steeped in glory and success and are deserving of much better. Some folks just don't get it do they? Redskin's fans are proud of their history which includes the likes of George Preston Marshall, Jack Kent Cooke, the legendary Vince Lombardi, George Allen, Joe Gibbs, Sammy Baugh and John Riggins. Snyder needs a history lesson to realize the Redskins are not a toy existing merely for his pleasure. He has the responsibility of maintaining the honor, dignity and integrity of one of footballs greatest franchises. "Vinny the Weasel" needs to go.

[Dirk Diggler]

Ok, gotta get some stuff straight here with Murilo and some others:

"Wolf- the fact is, the guy has no more Super Bowl rings than Vinny. "--MB

Green Bay was not Ron Wolf's first job. Off the top of my head he has worked for the Jets much of the 80's and the Raiders much of the 70's. He was the architect of the great Raider teams of the late 70's and early 80's. So, to say he was responsible for 1 Super Bowl is false.

"Furthermore, he doesn't know our players well. He'll come in, and cut guys we just drafted that may have something but he hasn't heard of them."--MB

You guys are acting like Ron Wolf has not watched a football game in 20 years. He called the shots for Green Bay up to and including the 2001 draft. I forgot how looooooong ago that was. He probably knows more about our team than any of us do. He strikes me very much as Bill Parcells does: A guy who is just on the outskirts of the NFL. Keeping close tabs on the league and its players, ready to pounce when the right offer/team comes along.

"We need some stability at the Skins- bringing in a new, flashy GM is not the answer. "--MB

Stability in the front office is vastly overrated. It is nowhere near as important as player/coaching turnover. And Snyder never seemed to be too shy about changing either around here.

Front Office execs come and go all the time and you never really hear about it. The top, top GM's are the ones you need to get your hands on. Guys like Bill Polian, Tom Modrak, and Ron Wolf would command serious respect from owners and execs around the NFL. And Wolf is anything but "flashy."

I'm not saying that Mendes/Cerrato have done a poor job. Frankly it is too early to tell. But if we have the chance to get Ron Wolf as our GM, I say you do it regardless of whose feelings get hurt. I think Snyder will find Ron Wolf to be a suitable lunch buddy. Especially when the topics (hopefully) become "How to stay on top" rather than "How to get to the top."

[Murilo Bustamante]

The Jets won no Super Bowls in the 70s or 80s, and what was Wolf's position and when with the Raiders? Otherwise, I stand by my statement.

Of course Wolf has followed football. So had Marty. But he still came in and cut guys that he didn't know as well. Any new GM will do the same. There are guys they know better than other guys. This is true for everyone. The difference is, Vinny knows our guys. And he knows them better than anyone else. Vinny watches them practice, hears daily updates, etc. Wolf doesn't.

Of course player stability is important. But part of player stability is front office stability.

Anyway, I've posted a lot on this, so I'll leave it alone now. I'm not trying to run down Ron Wolf; I just want to make it clear that

1) Vinny has a good GM record

2) Vinny has the right philosophy of filling needs, not just looking for bargains

3) Vinny as GM would give some more stability to the team, and stability is what the team needs most now.

[joe]

I don't know when Wolf worked for Oakland, but I know for a fact that Wolf was working for Tampa in the mid 1970's. He was their first director of player personnel and drafted Spurrier in the expansion draft for the team that went 0-14.

[Riggo-toni]

Vinny also insisted Brian Mitchell was washed up. Boy, he sure does know our guys. :gus:

And, please, the 49ers were winning Superbowls long before Vinny got his hands on the reins. And lest we forget, Vinny put them in cap hell. Name me some draft picks that Vinny made that made significant contributions to the 9er SB. I'm betting you'll find most all of the players were holdovers, just like us in 91 when Casserly (a horrible GM) took over for Beathard. It's one thing to inherit a winner, quite another to build one from the ground up. Just look at George Seifert.

Teams that are perennial contenders despite the cap are teams with great draft records, i.e. Green Bay, Denver, St Louis. Every single pick in 2000 after Arrington and Samuels ended up on the chopping block. That's no way to build a contender.

[Golgo-13]

I tend to agree with the idea of bringing in someone young and hungry. To bring in Ron Wolf just reeks of Snyder going for another washed-up glamour pick instead of one that will get results for us. Not to say that Ron Wolf is a bad GM by any means, but I'm just not sure that he would be suited for this position.

[just skins baby]

Why not Bill Parcells?

The man obviously knows football and knows personnel.

I wonder if he could be the type to get along with Spurrier though.

Maybe he doesn't want to coach anymore but I think he could be a good GM.