Greatest Redskins Team Ever--1937 vs. 1987

[rtandler]

Hey All,

On a radio show I'm on here in Richmond, we're trying to determine what the best Redskins team ever was. We have done a March-Madness style elimination bracket and we're down to the quarterfinals. This week, the matchup is between the fifth seeded 1937 Redskins (8-3 regular season, 1-0 post season) and the fourth seed, the 1987 edition (11-4, 3-0).

We'd like to get your vote for who should advance.

1937--The team's first year in DC. FourHall of Fame players in their primes (veterans back Cliff Battles, lineman Turk Edwards end Wayne Milner and rookie Sammy Baugh). They started off the season slowly, but hit their stride and beat the Giants in the season finale to take the Eastern Division title and advance to the NFL title game. Baugh threw three third-quarter TD passes to rally the Skins from a halftime deficit and the Redskins prevailed 28-21.

1987--The strike season; replacements go 3-0 to help the Skins on the way to the division title. A quarterback controversy raged all season, with neither Jay Schroeder nor Doug Williams able to nail down the job. In the playoffs, Green's hurdling punt return helps upset the Bears in Chicago and then the defense holds off a last-second Viking bid to tie the game to advance to the Super Bowl. In San Diego, it's Doug Williams, Timmy Smith, Ricky Sanders and "The Quarter".

The interpretation of the term "Greatest" is strictly up to you.

Thanks for your input and I'll check in next week with the results and that week's matchup.

BTW, if you live in the Richmond, VA area you can tune in the Redskins Review tonight (Thursday) from 7 to 9 on SportsRadio AM 910.

[Brave]

Well, just cut to the chase and crown the '91 team.

OK, between the two, go with the '37 team. They were the best team in the league and beat the powerful Bears for the title.

The '87 team, aside from winning 3 games with a strike team (though they DID provide us with some memories), wasn't necessarily the best team in the league until the playoffs. Great job by Gibbs having the team stay together through the strike and peak at the right time, but for the sake of this poll I'd still go with the '37 team.

[Highway66]

1991 redskins Bar none

[redman]

The 1987 Redskins was the worst of the Championship teams. That's silly that they've gotten that far in your bracket.

Ironically, the very best Redskins team may not have even won the championship: the 1983 Redskins. They were truly dominant. I'd place the 1991 and the 1982 teams after that.

So between the two, I voted for the 1937 team.

[fuji869]

I was not alive to see the1937 or 1942 NFL Champions but from what I have seen the 1987 Washington Redskins were the worst of the 3 Super Bowl Champions. The were a team that had to battle back many times during the Season. They had a QB Controversy RB Problems and were really not that dominant.

On their first game after the 1987 NFL Strike was over the fell behind to the NY Jets and I remember the RFK Fans yelling “we want the scabs, we want the scabs!!!!!” :cuss:

Twice in the playoffs they had to come back from double digits deficits (14 @ Chicago and 10 vs. Denver) and won. That is why they are my all-time favorite Redskin Team! Because they were a scrappy bunch that fought so hard for what the won in 87.

The 1997 Washington Redskins were a true testimony how great a coach Joe Gibbs was. He won the Super Bowl with a washed up QB and a non-named RB. He kept that team together through all the problems it had and was able to keep his team focused after those two Playoff deficits. :thumbsup:

[Brave]

Originally posted by fuji869

The 1997 Washington Redskins were a true testimony how great a coach Joe Gibbs was.

Sorry fuji, but you left the door WIDE oppen for my smarta$s ways. What on earth did the '97 Skins have to do with Gibbs?

[fuji869]

Originally posted by Brave

Sorry fuji, but you left the door WIDE oppen for my smarta$s ways. What on earth did the '97 Skins have to do with Gibbs?

OOOOOPS MY BAD :doh:

The 1987 Washington Redskins were a true testimony to how great a coach Joe Gibbs was!

The 1997 Washington Redskins were a true testimony to how awful a coach Norval Turner was!

[Brave]

Originally posted by fuji869

The 1997 Washington Redskins were a true testimony to how awful a coach Norval Turner was!

Well, on 2nd thought, fuji, using the '97 Skins as a comparison ... it DOES in fact say a lot about how great Gibbs was.

[gridironmike]

When in doubt, bet on Baugh. 1937! Ahhh, but didn't Doug Williams throw a pretty ball! Alvin Walton, where are ya?

[skinsanity56]

well i'd agree with someone but that would make me parrotboy:laugh: LOL:laugh: ,so i'll make my own statement and say the 87' team cause i know F'all about the 37'team.how did the 83'skins not make it though?????i'd take the 84' or 91' team over the 87' team any day to.DON'T AGREE WITH ME DIEHARD

[rtandler]

Originally posted by redman

The 1987 Redskins was the worst of the Championship teams. That's silly that they've gotten that far in your bracket.

Actually, they just had to "win" once to get to the round of eight. The five championship teams got the first five seeds, in order of combined regular- and post-season winning percentage. That made them the #5 seed.

[Hog Fever]

I listen to the show when I get the chance. Good stuff. I liked the way to cut Hokie J.E. off tonight :laugh: Anyway....

I've been following the countdown and out of those I'd go with the 37' team. However, I think the team that lost to the Raiders in the Super Bowl in 84' was the best Skins team ever, despite that loss.

[indyskinsfan]

I watched some old films back in the early 70's (groovin') and among them were photos of these guys in the 30's. How they hit, and pitch and catch, ran and stayed together was really amazing!

The equipment was nothing more than powder puff protection compared to today and it wasn't uncommon for some serious groin, eye, and knee injuries. Not to mention that when there was a fight, only Hockey could rival it, since there was no facial protection, only the head.

Add that to the chances given them and then the way the team stuck together, each a main component of the machine that grinded teams with big plays in crucial moments and winning season's after. It would get my vote compared to the 1987 team.

My greatest Skins team ever, includes players from different eras combined together.

Defense:

CB: Green and Bailey sub: Pat Fischer and Tony Peters

Safety: Ken Houston and Mark Murphy sub: Brig Owens

SLB: Wilbur Marshall, LaVar Arrington sub: Ken Harvey

ILB: Sam Huff, Jeremiah Trotter sub: Kurt Gouveia

WSLB: Chris Hanburger, Monte Coleman subs: Rich Milot and Mel Kaufman

DT: Dave Butz, Manny Sistrunk, Daryl Grant, Daryl Gardener, Diron Talbert sub: Tim Johnson and Daryl Gardener

DE: Deacon Jones, Ron McDole, Charles Mann, Dexter Manley

sub: Joe Rutgens

Offense:

WR: Art Monk, Gary Clark, Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell, sub: Charley Brown

RB: Cliff Battles, John Riggins, Larry Brown, Stephen Davis sub: Earnest Byner

QB: Sammy Baugh, Sonny Jurgenson, Joe Theismann, sub: Billy Kilmer

TE: Jerry Smith, Doc Walker, Don Warren, sub:Clint Didier

OLine: Hogs! (who else???) (Russ Grimm, Joe Jacoby, Joe Bostic,

Mark May, George Starke, Don Warren, Doc Walker) Honorary members: John Riggins, Jon Jansen, Chris Samuels, Jim Lachey, Turk Edwards

KR: Eddie Brown, Brian Mitchell

PR: Mike Nelms

Kickers: Mark Mosely sub: Curt Knight

Punter: (who's the one that faked his punts with the Gibbs teams? Hays?)

Head Coaches (3) Lombardi, Gibbs, Allen

DC - Richie Pettibone

OC - Joe Gibbs

ST - Marv Levy

Taxi Squad - Fred Smoot, Roy Jefferson, Mike Thomas, John Robinson, Otis Wonsley, Barry Wilburn, Vernon Dean, Rickey Sanders, Mark Rypien, Joe Washington, Mike Bass, Tre Johnson

[bulldog]

1991 team was the best team if you look at stats such as point differential, net yards gained vs. allowed, yards per pass play, overall record..............

1942 team was next. Went 10-1 and beat Bears in rematch game for the championship.

1937 fits in there with the 1982 team in the next rung.

1987 fits below all of these others. Not only were there strike games that counted in the final standings, but the Skins were very inconsistent in amassing the 8-4 record with its regulars. The quarterback and running back positions were really not solidified to any great degree until the playoffs started.

[Tommy-the-Greek]

Ironically, the very best Redskins team may not have even won the championship: the 1983 Redskins. They were truly dominant. I'd place the 1991 and the 1982 teams after that.

Redman and I actually agree on something.

:laugh:

I think that 83 team was the best team too. The Raider game was a fluke. In my mind it proves the best team doesn't always win. If they played each other 10 times the skins would have won at least 7 times.

[rtandler]

Originally posted by tommy-the-greek

Ironically, the very best Redskins team may not have even won the championship: the 1983 Redskins. They were truly dominant. I'd place the 1991 and the 1982 teams after that.

On the show, we were in line with the consensus expressed here and the '37 team won pretty easily.

This is just the first of four quarterfinals. Next week the matchup is the top seeded 1982 team vs. the 1986 edition.

A coming matchup is 1983 vs. 1991. Can you say that a team that was blown out in the title game is greater than one that won it?

[rtandler]

Originally posted by Hog Fever

I listen to the show when I get the chance. Good stuff. I liked the way to cut Hokie J.E. off tonight :laugh: Anyway....

Thanks for tuning in, Hog Fever. For those of you who listen to the Rome show, Hokie JE is aka the notorious caller Jeff from Richmond. He's good for a laugh, if nothing else.

[Brave]

Originally posted by rtandler

A coming matchup is 1983 vs. 1991. Can you say that a team that was blown out in the title game is greater than one that won it?

Others may feel this way, but I don't agree. I would not hesitate to put the 1991 team above all others. And I don't even think it's all that close.

The '91 team, IMHO, is one of the top 5 strongest teams in league history. They were dominant and they EASILY won the Super Bowl over a strong Buffalo team. That team was very close to being undefeated. Other than a single slip-up vs. Dallas (of course) they were darn near perfect. The could have easily dispatched of Philly in that final game if had held any importance at all. I think they would have handled the '83 team had they played them.

[TheKurp]

I've got to go with the 1987 team for no other reason than remembering the satisfaction I felt as the Skins replacements beat the Cowboys regulars 13-7, IN DALLAS!

[rtandler]

Originally posted by TheKurp

I've got to go with the 1987 team for no other reason than remembering the satisfaction I felt as the Skins replacements beat the Cowboys regulars 13-7, IN DALLAS!

Well, the guidelines do state that you can define "greatness" however you choose, but it does seem odd to define it as one game by a bunch of guys who never played again, IMHO.

Still, you're right, that was a hell of a memorable game (even though Dallas just had some of its regulars there). I think I posted this not too long ago, but here it is from The Redskins From A to Z:

10/19/87 Redskins (4-1) 13, COWBOYS (3-2) 7 60,415

Was 3 0 7 3 13

Dal 0 0 7 0 7

Was FG Arari 19

Was Wilson 16 run (Arari kick)

Dal Edwards 38 pass from D. White (Brady kick)

Was FG Arari 39

It’s said that courage is when you are afraid, but you go into the battle anyway.

As an October, 1987 Monday night game with the Cowboys at Texas Stadium approached, the strike-replacement Redskins didn’t know whether to be afraid or not. Their opponents, the Dallas Cowboys, had 11 veterans in the lineup including Hall of Famers Randy White and Tony Dorsett as well as other key players like quarterback Danny White and defensive end Too Tall Jones. In contrast, not a single Redskin veteran had crossed the picket lines.

The “Scabskins”, as they became to be called, were in NFL uniforms due to a player’s strike that cancelled the Week 3 NFL contests. Putting into place a plan that had been agreed upon prior to the season, the league’s teams hired replacement players to wear the jerseys and play the games starting with the fourth scheduled contest.

The Dallas game was not the first time that this group, assembled hastily by General Manager Bobby Beathard and his assistant Charlie Casserly, had faced a team laden with strikebreaking regulars. In their first game, they beat the Cardinals 28-21 despite the presence of St. Louis regulars including receiver Roy Green and linebacker E. J. Junior. In fact, Washington receiver Anthony Allen set a team record for receiving yards in a game with 255. That mark still stands.

Running back Lionel Vital was the following week’s star, rushing for 128 yards in Washington’s 38-12 win over the Giants. “I couldn’t understand why Lionel hadn’t been in the pros,” said Joe Gibbs afterward. Undoubtedly, Giants coach Bill Parcells held the same sentiment.

During the week leading up to the Dallas game, as it became apparent that the strike would be settled, the Redskins veterans decided to report to play. The NFL, however, ruled that they had come in too late to be able to play that week. The replacements would take the field knowing that it would be for the last time.

Gibbs played that angle to motivate the team. “This is your final audition,” the coach said of the Monday night stage that might provide them with an opportunity to show their abilities to scouts and general managers around the league.

Things went the Redskins way early. Dorsett was stripped of the ball and the Redskins recovered at the Dallas 46, leading to an Obed Arari field goal. There was frustration for the Redskins for a while after that as quarterback Ed Rubbert left the game with a bruised shoulder, running back Lionel Vital lost a fumble at the Dallas five, and a field goal attempt by Arari from 43 yards hit the upright.

To the delight of Redskins fans, Dallas was doubly frustrated, unable to generate offense despite the presence of Dorsett and Danny White. The quarterback was sacked six times in the first half, Dorsett fumbled again, and nothing was working. The first half ended with the Redskins up 3-0. Dallas had not run a play in Washington territory.

“We were disappointed we weren’t up by more because we had really been outplaying them,” said guard Dan Brilz.

After halftime, the Redskins found their stride. Tony Robinson, subbing for Rubbert, hit tight end Craig McEwen for 42 yards, Vital ran for 17, and receiver Ted Wilson went around left end 16 yards for the touchdown.

The drive allayed fears that Washington’s chances were doomed without Rubbert. “When Ed got hurt, I thought we were in big trouble,” said tight end Craig McEwen, “but Tony came in all calm, cool, and collected. It was just like practice.”

Dallas immediately responded with an 80-yard touchdown drive. But the Redskins took control of the clock and ground off over seven minutes before scoring on a Arari’s 38-yard FG with just over six minutes left to stretch the lead to 13-6. With slightly over two minutes left, the Cowboys started a drive from their own three. With just a few ticks left on the clock, they had made it down to the Washington 13. It was fourth and four.

In the huddle, over the din of 60,000 hostile fans, safety and defensive leader Skip Lane said, “This is our game to win or lose. We’ve got to win it right now. Play deep, tackle them in front of the goal line, and we win the game.” For every player on the field, it would be their last NFL play.

As White’s pass hit receiver Kelvin Edwards’ hands at the six, safety Joe Cofer hit Edwards and the ball bouncing on the Texas Stadium carpet touched off a wild celebration.

“It was kind of a miracle,” Gibbs said.

And one courageous performance.

[Die Hard]

Originally posted by Brave

Others may feel this way, but I don't agree. I would not hesitate to put the 1991 team above all others. And I don't even think it's all that close.

The '91 team, IMHO, is one of the top 5 strongest teams in league history. They were dominant and they EASIKY won the Super Bowl over a strong Buffalo team. That team was very close to being undefeated. Other than a single slip-up vs. Dallas (of course) they were darn near perfect. The could have easily dispatched of Philly in that final game if had held any importance at all. I think they would have handled the '83 team had they played them.

Agreed Brave. That team went 11-0 before that loss to Dallas. The Skins were up 16-7 at the half against the Eagles before Gibbs pulled everybody. Always left me a bit bitter.

I was relatively young to enjoy the the early years... but as my knowledge of football grew over the years... I really can't imagine a more dominant Skins team than '91.

[bulldog]

I was in the stands for the 1983 Redskins. The Redskins defensive backfield wasn't called the Pearl Harbor Crew for nothing

The Redskins 1983 team had an achilles heel that the 1982 and 1991 teams did not, namely a pass defense. Finishing #25 against the pass and giving up 48 points and 500 yards on MNF agains the Lynn Dickey Packers, there is no way that team fits in the top 2 or 3.

Jeris White held out and never played pro football again. That left one corner spot open. The nickel back, Joe Lavender, who had been a pro bowl caliber starter for some years in Philly, retired after 1982. Tony Peters, the current pro bowl safety in 1982, was busted for intent to distribute cocaine in training camp and was suspended.

We started the year with Anthony Washington a late pickup from the Steelers as one of the starters at corner. Darrell Green was worked into the mix in 1983 after being a top pick.

Mark Murphy and Curtis Jordan were the safeties.

The result was a backfield that lacked speed at safety and experience at corner and the stats were not good.

At the end of the year the Skins scored their 500 points but they gave up over 320 as well.

In the playoffs the 51-7 victory over the Rams was followed by two subpar performances.

The Skins were lucky to win the 49ers game as Moseley missed 3 or 4 field goals and the Redskins final drive to win the game consisted of two long pass interference penalties that were dubious.

Then throw in what was up to that time the worst loss in Super Bowl history to the Raiders and the 1983 team, while it gave us some thrills along the way, wasn't really among the best all-time.

In terms of history, the 1942 team was the best of the Ray Flaherty teams. The Redskins were 10-1 during the season and were able to return and defeat the Bears after being embarrassed 73-0 in 1940