inmate running the asylum Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 I just read in the WP what I feared would happen, and that is the Skins are replacing Jacquez Green with Champ Bailey as the punt returner. This is a dumb move IMHO, because it is totally unnecessary. :doh: Remember what happened to Jason Seahorn of the Giants? He has never been the same cornerback after reconstructive knee surgery. The main reason Darrell Green has been able to play cornerback for 20 years, is that he has never had knee surgery, which would have slowed him down and shortened his career. Joe Gibbs was smart in never using him as a punt returner -- except in a temporary emergency and in a few playoff games, after the regular season was over. Darrell Green could have been one of the all-time great punt returners in the NFL, as he averaged almost 20 yards per punt return in college. But Joe Gibbs had the FORESIGHT to see ahead -- which current management apparently does not -- and not risk Green to unnecessary injury. For this same reason, the Raiders do not risk injury to Charles Woodson as a punt returner, who is also their shut down cornerback. If Champ Bailey remains the permanent punt returner -- mark my words -- this move is going to blow up in the Redskins face. :doh: It also doesnt make any sense from another perspective, in that Bailey was not that great a punt returner in college. He had no TD returns for touchdowns in college. Tamerick Vanover was cut by the Chargers and was formerly a great punt and kickoff returner -- why not sign him instead? :gus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 what inmate said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 I agree and have been of the same opinion ever since Champ was drafted. He should be a returner. It isn't the position that puts him in danger, it's the amount of time he spends on the field. It'll wear at his body and he'll eventually get hurt. Look at Deion compared to Darrell. Deion retired with a plethora of injuries and a shell of his former self, Darrell is still playing and much healthier than most people his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddha Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 I'm more worried about Champ's decision-making as a PR than him getting hurt. If he's not fair catching with no one within 10 yards of him, he's letting the ball bounce and roll inside our 10. He clearly has the skills to be a great returner for us, but simply lacks experience to know what to do with a punt. I fear his mistakes will be what blows up in the team's face. I noticed that the HBC sent Willie Jackson out for one return last week. I'd go with a combination of Jackson and Skaggs to evaluate their abilities, and let Champ focus on shutting down opposing receivers. In a worse case scenario, I'd put Darrell back there. He definitely knows what to do with a punt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsThug Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 It's especially stupid considering there's nothing on the line at this point in the season. Try out some rooks and see who can do what. Jeez! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by Buddha I'm more worried about Champ's decision-making as a PR than him getting hurt. If he's not fair catching with no one within 10 yards of him, he's letting the ball bounce and roll inside our 10. He clearly has the skills to be a great returner for us, but simply lacks experience to know what to do with a punt. I fear his mistakes will be what blows up in the team's face. I noticed that the HBC sent Willie Jackson out for one return last week. I'd go with a combination of Jackson and Skaggs to evaluate their abilities, and let Champ focus on shutting down opposing receivers. In a worse case scenario, I'd put Darrell back there. He definitely knows what to do with a punt. That's the right scenario Buddha. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Smoot Fan Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Well Deion was returning punts throughtout his career and he has been the best CB in the NFL for a number of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted November 14, 2002 Author Share Posted November 14, 2002 Deion's career only lasted what.... 12 years because of injuries; Darrell Green's career has lasted 20 years! Why dont the Skins try CB Rashad Bauman as a punt returner? I understand he was outstanding in high school at returning punts. I cant remember offhand if he returned punts in college. :gus: Or better yet...use Darrell Green. If Green gets hurt, this is his last year anyway. :gus: Or sign Tamerick Vanover! :shootinth P.S. I forgot. I gotta make these posts colorful for Om, otherwise he wont read em. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murilo Bustamante Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Sehorn was vastly overrated, and was exposed. He didn't get worse because of his injury. The issue is that Sehorn came into the league with a lot of skeptics, and didn't fall flat on his rear immediately. So suddenly people decided to make him a star. Since then, reality has been unmercifully pimp-slapping Mr. Sehorn, to my immense amusement. Carry on with your previous discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RySkins Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Alright guys, it's not like it's a sin to use an important player to return punts. And there is no guarantee that this is a primary solution anyway. This might just be a temporary thing until we find someone else to return punts. If Bailey can help us out returning punts, I'm all for it. We are getting killed in every change of possession situation. And the reason Charles Woodson isn't returning punts is because Tim Brown can return punts and because he has been hurt for three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 I thought that was why they moved Skaggs up from the practice squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by Buddha I'm more worried about Champ's decision-making as a PR than him getting hurt. If he's not fair catching with no one within 10 yards of him, he's letting the ball bounce and roll inside our 10. He clearly has the skills to be a great returner for us, but simply lacks experience to know what to do with a punt. I don't know, from what you've stated, and I wholeheartedly concur with your assessment, it seems Bailey's problem isn't one of experience, but one of courage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 The only scenario where I could see using Champ as a PR is if he is just phenomenal at it and a touchdown threat every single time...even then I would be hesitant since good CBs are so hard to find. This front office is very reactionary. they have no real road map or long term plan, they just fix situations as they emerge. band aid style. You can see it in the desperate moves to fix the guard position and most recently with the signing of Jackson and releasing of Lockett and releasing of J. Green. If you knew you were gonna cut Green a little earlier, we could have kept Lockett and maybe used him as a PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuskin Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Maybe they're just thowing champ a bone here. He has said that he want's to be a returner. Let him get it out of his system so he won't move on just to get his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Jeez, the threat of injury on punt returns is SOOOOO overrated. Can anyone name a top punt returner who's been seriously injured on a punt return? Whoever cited Charles Woodson is flat out wrong. At the end of last regular season and all throughout the playoffs, Woodson was the regular punt returner. He has been suffering through annoying minor injuries the past couple of seasons that has reduced his effectiveness, but it has nothing to do with returning punts. There's a whole litany of Pro Bowl starters who have been top, regular punt returners, and not a one of them has suffered an injury like everyone is so afraid of. Deion is an obvious example. Anyone who wouldn't take advantage of his obvious playmaking ability on special teams is a fool. How about Tim Brown? He was one of the best WR/PRs for years. Just last season, Troy Brown played a similar role for the Pats. They might not have made the Super Bowl if it wasn't for Brown's play on offense AND special teams. He led the entire NFL in PR average! Want cornerbacks besides Deion? How about Deltha O'Neal last season? A Pro Bowl corner who led the league in intercetions and was the Broncos regular punt returner, ranking 4th in the entire league in PR average. For two or three years, Dale Carter was a Pro Bowl, shut-down cornerback, AND maybe the best punt returner in the league. Anybody who saw Champ Bailey play in college knows what a playmaker he is with the ball in his hands. And these Redskins are a team that is desparate for playmakers. I would agree that his offensive touches should be severly limited. But he deserves a chance to show what he can do as a punt returner. I'm sick of people citing Darrell Green as a precident. If Joe Gibbs didn't have a Mike Nelms or a Brian Mitchell, Green may very well have gotten a chance to return more punts. This year's edition has no Nelms or Mitchell. If the above players are any indication, the rewards FAR outweigh the risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted November 17, 2002 Author Share Posted November 17, 2002 Guru, You want the name of a top punt returner who was seriously injured? Well, Tim Brown tore up his knee and had major reconstructive knee surgery in 1989 returning punts. That took about 5 minutes of research. Jason Seahorn tore up his knee returning a kickoff in preseason, and was never the same afterwards -- having been a shutdown cornerback before. TomGiants fan can probably confirm that. I am sure there are others, but I havent got the time to research it. Yes, Tim Brown still went on to become a great receiver, but having lost some speed he became more of a possession receiver after the injury, then a home-runner hitter. And the Raiders removed him from punt returning for the most part over the years. Besides, in checking Bailey's college record, I dont see where he was that great a punt returner. He had no TD returns. Shutdown cornerbacks are just too hard to find --so why risk the injury? Thats why Joe Gibbs rarely used Darrell Green to return punts. Even last year when our punt returning sucked, Marty refused to use Bailey on punt returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted December 19, 2002 Author Share Posted December 19, 2002 Like I said back in November.... making Champ Bailey the punt returner would turn out to be a dumb move for a number of reasons. Some of you, read my lips. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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