Larry Brown #43 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 I recognize that not everyone is a Snyder apologist here, but for those who are, just what has this guy given us in the time he's been here? Hasn't he been here long enough to shape this organization into better than a perennial 8-8 team? He came in and flexed his muscle by firing everyone. Then he went against decades of Redskin tradition and hired Deion, casting off one of the 70 greatest Redskins, who happens to still be getting it done in Philly. Deion, one the other hand, is getting it done in the broadcast booth, and we're paying him to do it. We have nothing to show for Snyder's efforts, except for the big fireworks before each game at FedEx. Unfortunately, however, we get no fireworks during the actual games. I realize we can't fire the owner, but are we headed down the same path the Cowpies and JJ have gone down? Are we becoming the Baltimore Orioles of the NFL? Are we a train wreck in the making, or are we truly headed in the right direction? I'm losing patience with Snyder. No more excuses for this guy. He's hired every single guy we have have, except for the figureheads like Bobby Mitchell and Bubba Tyer. And he's more involved in day-to-day operations than any other owner in the league except for one. I'm tired of the excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskrat Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 I think Snyder is better than Jerry Jones. I think Snyder is learning that he cannot control everything that goes on, a trick that Jerry Jones hasn't learned yet, and is running the 'Boys into the ground because of it. Snyder is rough around the edges, but I DO get a sense that he is a huge fan and wants to win, although occasionally that desire has led to some rash decisions. If he can temper that desire to win with a little patience, then we have a chance, and I think he is going to do just that...he's not a stupid man. Of course, this could just be wishful thinking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddha Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Sounds like you've been reading too much of the Washington Times. And most of the other Snyder-bashing media outlets. How do you really know HOW much he's involved with the day-to-day operations of the team? Do you have an inside scoop with the team that the rest of us don't, or are you just buying into all the crap we see in the papers? Really all you can do is take what you can see in trying to judge Snyder. He has propped this team up very well financially, so well in fact that we can meet the demands of any player or coach we want (salary cap concerns aside). How many teams in the league can afford to do that? Each season under his ownership, he has proactively gone out and brought us the tools to be competitive. And when the team doesn't pan out, he's definitely not shy about trying to fix it. Think about whether the Skins would be better off had The Squire left the team outright to his spineless wimp of a son, or had the litigious Howard Milstein snagged our franchise. Or even if the Skins were owned by guys like Mike Brown, or Art Modell, or Jerrah Jones. I for one like my chances for the future with Snyder owning the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murilo Bustamante Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Snyder has brought back a legit chance for this organization to win. He's been here three years, and when he first took over, he took over late, which prevented him from firing the coach he wanted to fire. He's changed the attitude of the organization. He has made some mistakes, but NOT as many as the press says. - He did NOT blow up the cap. We have never had as many cap problems as anyone suggests, Marty or no Marty. His mistakes are... - not being aggressive enough with his critics (i.e. letting them get away with some bald-faced lies). - letting the NFL get away with some blatant anti-Skins calls since Snyder took over. - giving Marty too much control when he hired him (instead of just hiring Lewis then or hiring Rhodes, who would have come if we had given him a guaranteed contract) However, it's been three years and we have been about a .500 team since he took over (a little bit better). I believe things are going to get better soon, but even right now, .500 is a lot better than Jack Kent Cooke's seasons tolerating Norv... 1997 (JKC II) 8-7-1 1998 (JKC II) 6-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clubisyohankovic Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 "Are we becoming the Baltimore Orioles of the NFL?" Yes. Absolutely yes. It's tough to watch. THe 1999 team was a solid team, one snap away from the NFC Championship. I was looking forward to seeing what that team could do the following year. Enter Deion and company, and a team that barely resembles the team from the year before. The friggin' Giants go to the superbowl. This year.... I don't know. I like Spurrier. He says what's on his mind, he admits his mistakes, he's unconventional. But I don't like the circumstances under which he was brought here. When Snyder brought him in, he said that "Steve Spurrier will bring a supercharged, exciting and dynamic brand of football to our great fans. His ability to energize players and teams is unprecedented. The Redskins deserve to be back at the Super Bowl, and I am immensely confident that Steve is the coach to get us there." That made me uneasy from the beginning. It sounds more like he's interested in pulling the "xtreme sports demographic" or something. I don't need a "supercharged" brand of football, I like winning. I like Riggins/Byner/offensive linemen that wear down the other team.... I like being able to run at will and gain 4 yards every carry. Most of all, I like winning.... it's fun (supercharged, if you will). I could deal with passing every down if the team was winning. The most frustrating part is that Spurrier has spent the past month admitting that his team is set up to be a running team, and "that's probably what we need to do," but he can't help himself. It's like an addiction. It will be interesting to how/if he adjusts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 we are not becoming the Orioles. They are losing on purpose to keep a team out of D.C. If John Cooke had kept the team. Norv would still be coach and we'd still be a below .500 team. Dan Snyder is trying to win which is more than what the owners of the Bungles, Vikings and Cards are really doing. keeping your team at .500 with all those new coaches and players and only owning the team for a few years sounds pretty decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by Buddha Sounds like you've been reading too much of the Washington Times. And most of the other Snyder-bashing media outlets. How do you really know HOW much he's involved with the day-to-day operations of the team? Do you have an inside scoop with the team that the rest of us don't, or are you just buying into all the crap we see in the papers? Not true at all. The Times sports writers suck. I just think I turned the corner last night in my feelings on Snyder. I remember after he hired Marty, he told us, "You just wait and see, he's a good coach." A few months later, Marty's out the door. People say, "the problem was Marty had too much control." Well just who gave him that control? If something doesn't work immediately, Snyder levels it and starts from the beginning. But that doesn't always work in the NFL. The Eagles SUCKED under Andy Reid initially, but they stuck with the program and they have a pretty nice thing going. I don't care how much money Snyder throws into the franchise. A lot of the money (spent on Deion and buying out Marty) has been flushed down the toilet. I'd rather have a thrifty front office that spends money WISELY than a front office that flushes money down the toilet. As for his decision-making powers, he himself stated that the personnel decisions would come from a four-man committee of himself, Mendes, Cerrato and Spurrier, with himself having the last word in the case of any disputes or disagreements. That sounds like a lot of control to me, but whether you agree with that or not, Snyder HAS hired everyone who's currently on board. So if Cerrato, Mendes, or anyone else is not getting the job done, the blame falls on Snyder's lap. He is responsible for how the people he hires perform, just as a GM is judged by the players he chooses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 I like Danny. He isnt the one overthrowing the ball or playing a two deep zone badly. I can think of plenty of d1ckheads we could have owning the team that would look at the skins only as a cash cow and not put a winning product on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marhobo Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Sports is all about winning. Business is all about making money. The true merit of any owner is how well he can make those interact within the framework of the team concept. That includes the myriad of personel. Sport and business start with the dream to succeed. Both begin with the process of knowing and developing a product Then, they both demand the hiring of employees that share the vision and ability to make that product achieve the desired goals. Should those goals not be met, both demand the replacement of personel. The big difference comes with accountability. In business, more often than not, the owner is responsible to his shareholders - who are also in it to make money. In sport, (unless you live in Green Bay), the owner is judged by the fans, who have no say in team matters and are in it for championships. Shareholders have the option of removal. Fans do not. Consequently, sport owners have only the pressure of financial stability and personal desire. Daniel Snyder has made it well known that he's a huge fan, so his personal desire should be in the right place. He has developed this team into one of the most financially sound organizations in football, so his business acumen is good. Yet the team has been in a state of flux since he has taken over the reins, and the goal of winning has fallen well short. What's worse, the team seems to have no direction. Instead it seems to waver on the whims of someone who has shown no ability to make intelligent football decision. There are those who would argue that time is the cureall. That we must use a learning curve. That the lack of experience in this arena is to be expected and forgiven. Hahaha. Daniel Snyder is a fool to think he's the right man for the job. And as long as he denies that, the longer it will be before the fans see competance in the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief skin Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 He has not brought any consistency to this organization. He has spent lots of money on has been players, he has raised ticket prices, he screwed up tailgating in the parking lots with the parking pass bull$hit. Most important the product on the field sucks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by Bufford If John Cooke had kept the team Norv would still be coach and we'd still be a below .500 team. That would be a tragedy, since we're above .500 now. Oh wait a minute...no we're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief skin Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 OH YES, Johnny boy was the worst even Mr Cooke knew that he was a clueless moron, Johnny boy was never in the box at RFK with the old man. I wanted Snyder to buy the team he was and is the lesser of 2 evils and until Snyder gets some football people in the front office (Vinny Cerato is a JOKE) and lets them run the operation without sticking his nose into it we are doomed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Snyder has brought visibility, energy and financial resources. What he has not brought is stability or clarity of purpose. He has been impatient and mercurial in his decision-making and that has resulted in .500 records the past two years as roster turnovers have been at almost 40% per season, far higher than teams like the Eagles and 49ers that are expected to be contenders. The other thing Snyder has failed to do is put someone in the front office that can be trusted to manage the day to day affairs of the team with no questions asked. Where Jack Kent Cooke hired Jerry West to be the GM of the Lakers and Bobby Beathard to be the GM of the Redskins, Snyder has so far given us Vinny Cerrato, Marty Schottenheimer and HIMSELF as decision-making executives. Cerrato hasn't proven to be a winner at any level. Marty had never been a GM before 2001 and Snyder has no prior sports experience. The results have been somewhat predictable. Mendes has brought some sanity to the equation in 2002 but he has spent much of the past 4 or 5 years managing the financial end of the business and was in private practice the past year. He has experience as a scout and personnel man but that was years ago. Although compared to what else is available in that box right now, he is probably the only cause for optimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by Larry Brown #43 That would be a tragedy, since we're above .500 now. Oh wait a minute...no we're not. 1 game under .500 in the middle of the season. Stop ****ing and wait to see how it plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsanity56 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 GAVE ME ULCERS & i can't sleep @ night.he stated when he bought the team that he was "living every fans dream" well it's turning into a nightmare for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by Buddha Sounds like you've been reading too much of the Washington Times. And most of the other Snyder-bashing media outlets. How do you really know HOW much he's involved with the day-to-day operations of the team? Do you have an inside scoop with the team that the rest of us don't, or are you just buying into all the crap we see in the papers? Really all you can do is take what you can see in trying to judge Snyder. He has propped this team up very well financially, so well in fact that we can meet the demands of any player or coach we want (salary cap concerns aside). How many teams in the league can afford to do that? Each season under his ownership, he has proactively gone out and brought us the tools to be competitive. And when the team doesn't pan out, he's definitely not shy about trying to fix it. Think about whether the Skins would be better off had The Squire left the team outright to his spineless wimp of a son, or had the litigious Howard Milstein snagged our franchise. Or even if the Skins were owned by guys like Mike Brown, or Art Modell, or Jerrah Jones. I for one like my chances for the future with Snyder owning the team. Really. How telling is it that: 1) In 2000, Snyder masterminded, along with that yes man, rubber stamper, clone and drone Cerrato, a run at it by just getting big name, aging FA's. 2) Claims he learned something from that experience, but does the something very similar this year w/ Marvin Lewis. Where's the wisdom in getting a DC who tells you up front that he won't be here for the long run because he wants to be a head coach sooner rather than later? He went for a big name now at the expense of the team's future. I like Snyder for his passion and aggressiveness, but he needs to be balanced by a very seasoned and successful GM far and away more qualified to devise a long term strategy and blueprint for this team's future success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by OaktonSkinsFan I like Snyder for his passion and aggressiveness, but he needs to be balanced by a very seasoned and successful GM far and away more qualified to devise a long term strategy and blueprint for this team's future success. Very well said, Oakton. The key word there is BLUEPRINT. There hasn't been any kind of blueprint since Snyder took over. It's been an ever-changing startegy, with no defined vision for how the team is supposed to be constructed. It seems to change from season to season, and in some cases more often than that. Where's the blueprint? Where's the vision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummagumma Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Hummm, before Snyder, losing season after losing season for 6 or 7 years. Since Snyder .500 or better. That's not an apology. That's the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by ummagumma Hummm, before Snyder, losing season after losing season for 6 or 7 years. Since Snyder .500 or better. That's not an apology. That's the facts. Great. So, what you are saying is that .500 or slightly better with the occassional division win and subsequent playoff loss is satisfactory. Just wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by ummagumma Hummm, before Snyder, losing season after losing season for 6 or 7 years. Since Snyder .500 or better. I'm not comparing Snyder to his predecessor, I'm comparing him to the owners around the league. I think most people agree that Cooke Jr. was overmatched as owner. But does that mean we should be satisfied with someone who has performed only marginally better? I expect more out of my Redskins than perennial 8-8 seasons. I think people get lured in by the flash and flair of the Snyder ownership -- the big dollars and the fireworks. Don't get me wrong...I enjoy the fireworks before the game, but I'm sick and tired of the fireworks being the highlight and the game being totally anti-climactic. At some point he needs to hold himself accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 I'm a lot more comfortable with Snyder than with that nincompoop Cooke Jr. The Squire built his teams under the philosophy that the coach told him who he needed and The Squire paid whatever it took to get them in B&G. Nowadays, there's a different dynamic. One that I think Snyder has finally caught on to. You can't be assured that any given player will be with you for too long. Therefore, you have to maximize the talent that you can retain without having to worry about the cap--that means coaching and scouting boys and girls. Along with having a credible offensive and/or defensive system, today's successfull NFL coach has to be able to teach and motivate in a short period of time all the while preparing replacements for whichever guys may not be around next season...not unlike a college coach. I think Snyder has realized this and hence has changed his attentions towards using his $$$ to get the best coaching and (soon hopefully) the best talent evaluation staff $$$ can buy. As long as he owns the team we'll be stuck with his ego. However, that's not always a bad thing. The Squire had a decent sized ego too. It was just that he knew what he was doing. Once Snyder gets this NFL ownership business down, he's going to do be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by Larry Brown #43 The key word there is BLUEPRINT. There hasn't been any kind of blueprint since Snyder took over. It's been an ever-changing startegy, with no defined vision for how the team is supposed to be constructed. It seems to change from season to season, and in some cases more often than that. Where's the blueprint? Would you please provide me with an example of a blueprint? I'm kind of curious to know what you deem to be a blueprint. Somehow, I don't think teams/coaches/organizations come out and layout the blueprint of a franchise to the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by Yusuf06 I'm a lot more comfortable with Snyder than with that nincompoop Cooke Jr. The Squire built his teams under the philosophy that the coach told him who he needed and The Squire paid whatever it took to get them in B&G. Nowadays, there's a different dynamic. One that I think Snyder has finally caught on to. You can't be assured that any given player will be with you for too long. Therefore, you have to maximize the talent that you can retain without having to worry about the cap--that means coaching and scouting boys and girls. Along with having a credible offensive and/or defensive system, today's successfull NFL coach has to be able to teach and motivate in a short period of time all the while preparing replacements for whichever guys may not be around next season...not unlike a college coach. I think Snyder has realized this and hence has changed his attentions towards using his $$$ to get the best coaching and (soon hopefully) the best talent evaluation staff $$$ can buy. As long as he owns the team we'll be stuck with his ego. However, that's not always a bad thing. The Squire had a decent sized ego too. It was just that he knew what he was doing. Once Snyder gets this NFL ownership business down, he's going to do be ok. You forgot that all teams need consistency at the coaching level. Of course, the Redskins history over the past few years is a fine example of this. I suppose Snyder has not yet learned this lesson as witnessed by his pursuit of Marvin Lewis who has made it abundantly clear from the day he signed on with the Redskins that he would like to be a head coach sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by Die Hard Would you please provide me with an example of a blueprint? I'm kind of curious to know what you deem to be a blueprint. Somehow, I don't think teams/coaches/organizations come out and layout the blueprint of a franchise to the general public. The fact that we, the public, are not presented with a blueprint does necessarily indicate the absence of one or the fact that one is required. All successful organizations have some type of blueprint or formalized plan for success. Businesses, for instance, have a business plan. I can't imagine that, say, the Eagles or the Rams didn't begin their rebuilding programs a few years ago without some sort of plan, blueprint or whatever appellation you wish to designate. The erratic and disruptive changes of the Snyder era indicates that a plan of some sort has never been created, adopted or, at least, executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Would you please provide me with an example of a blueprint? I'm kind of curious to know what you deem to be a blueprint. Somehow, I don't think teams/coaches/organizations come out and layout the blueprint of a franchise to the general public. Of course it's not realeased to the public, but I think we can sense which teams have an identifiable direction and which ones don't. The Cowboys and Bengals don't. The Eagles do. With front office people coming and going every year with this team, it's not possible that they could be following any type of plan. Take the Capitals, for example. I know it's a different sport, but the premise is the same. When owner Ted Leonsis took over the team, he said "This is where I want to be in 5 years." And each year, he expected the team to move closer and closer to that goal. The Caps have done a fine job of keeping a lid on salaries while improving the team's overall talent level. On the other hand, Snyder's plan seems to be "Win it all this year, and if we don't...fire everyone!" Snyder may very well let Cerrato go after the season, and I can't say I'd have a huge problem with it if he does. But doesn't Snyder need to take responsibility for his hiring decisions? Any slams against Cerrato, Marty, Mendes, etc., are indirectly slams on Snyder, because he hired them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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