AP:New York Bans Trans Fats at Restaurants

[Slateman]

"I don't care about what might be politically correct and what's not," said Murray Bader, nursing a cup of coffee at Dunkin' Donuts on Tuesday morning. "I want to live longer!"

Yet, she drinks coffee at a Dunkin Donuts :doh: :doh: :laugh:

Works for me. That stuff is basically poison.

So are cigarettes and alcohol. Can we ban that too?

EDIT - Am I the only one that noticed that the link doesn't go to the same article that the original poster posted?

[Destino]

A one of the retarded making a similar argument...thanks Des...

The concern isn't as much that the decision doesn't make sense (as it very well may, especially in light of some of the additional evidence given in this thread), but the extent to which health decisions are made by the government as opposed to the people, and at what point the decision is made with respect to what is healthy. In a case like this, there is likely a good argument that banning the trans fats makes sense (as has been stated by you and others in the thread).

You aren't retarded and I don't think you are making said retarded argument. Are you? Mass said basically if he wants to eat transfat he should - the problem being that I don't believe anyone actually "wants" to eat something that no one can even describe the taste of. It's an ingredient with an interesting history:

Nobel laureate Paul Sabatier worked in the 1890s to develop the chemistry of hydrogenation which enabled the margarine, oil hydrogenation, and synthetic methanol industries.[11] While Sabatier only considered hydrogenation of vapours, the German chemist Wilhelm Normann showed in 1901 that liquid oils could be hydrogenated and patented the process in 1902.[12] In 1909, Procter & Gamble acquired the US rights to the Normann patent[13]; in 1911, they began marketing the first hydrogenated shortening, Crisco (composed largely of partially hydrogenated cottonseed oil). Further success came from the marketing technique of giving away free cookbooks with every recipe calling for Crisco. Hydrogenation strongly stimulated whaling, as it made it possible to stabilize whale oil for human consumption.

Production of hydrogenated fats increased steadily until the 1960s as artificially hardened liquid oils replaced naturally hard saturated animal fats in the US and other western countries. At first, the argument was a financial one due to lower costs; however, advocates also said that the unsaturated trans fats of margarine were healthier than the saturated fats of butter.[14] The Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI) campaigned against the use of saturated fats for fast food cooking starting in 1984. When fast food companies replaced the saturated fat with partially hydrogenated unsaturated fats, CSPI's campaign against them ended. While CSPI defended trans fats in their 1987 Nutrition Action newsletter, by 1992 CSPI began to speak against trans fats and is currently strongly against their use.[15]

There were suggestions in the scientific literature as early as 1988 that trans fats could be a cause of the large increase in coronary artery disease.[14][16] In 1994, it was estimated that trans fats caused 30,000 deaths annually in the US from heart disease.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fat#History

However, the questions remains where does the line fall, and who makes the ultimate decision in respect to legality. In other instances, the health ramifications may not be as clear, and perhaps the enhancement (albeit taste or other things) far outweigh (in some eyes) the costs...and this is where this ruling could present a problematic precedent. That line isn't always clear cut. Maybe it is in this case, and maybe it's not. I'm just not 100% comfortable with the government making something per se illegal when there's an alternative means of accomplishing a similar result (increased fines, disclaimers, etc.)--it's in my eyes a capitulation to a lack of self-reliance on a broader scale.

See iheart THAT is not a stupid argument. That is a good one. This is the place we find ourselves in so many political arguments. Where is the line drawn. Most of us can at least agree there is a line but the placement of this line is the problem. Personally, as you can tell, I have no problem banning this ingredient. I view it as a mistake. We thought it was healthier, the facts have since changed, and now it's time to be rid of it. I don't see a downside here as all the foods people love would seem to still be made available.

[Destino]

Left wing libs have no problem having the government tell us what we can and can''t eat. But, let the government try to protect our national security and they freak out.

Yes folks, here's another example of liberalism being a mental disease.

Yeah and let a cancer patient want to smoke a joint and suddenly we are trading hats. Get off the high horse.

[No_Pressure]

Considering how this country is on the fast track to a crappy socialist system of health care, this is just fine with me. Now maybe when we turn into a bunch of socialists and I am on the 18 month waiting list for the same kind of knee surgery like I had for my ACL 2 years ago, geting addicted to pain killers, I know I wont end up paying for other people's medical bills because they are fat asses. When I pay someone's bills it wont be because they ate themselves immobile, or straight into a heart attack. It will be because they smoked themselves into emphysema or drank their livers dead.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

You aren't retarded and I don't think you are making said retarded argument. Are you? Mass said basically if he wants to eat transfat he should - the problem being that I don't believe anyone actually "wants" to eat something that no one can even describe the taste of.

Destino, regardless of what it tastes like itself, it is a prime ingredient in the creation of a number of my prefered fast-food items. As for it's harmful affects on the body.... I really couldn't care any less. I live by a very simple rule: "Eat right, exercise daily, and Die anyway." If that means I only live to be 55 or 60 instead of 70 or 75 and die of a massive corronary or something similar, so be it. I will enjoy myself while I am here.

[Zen-like Todd]

And what is your contribution, Mr. No-Mod? Why don't you buzz off. :doh:

Actually, community self-policing is a function encouraged by the moderators. Of course you're too busy trolling to figure that out. Contribute or leave.

[Seabee1973]

I know there were about 1000 poisons in the cigarette i just smoked, but i smoked it anyways.

Im sure those will be banned soon too.

Booze kills thousands of people a year because stupid people like to get liquored up and drive around. Might as well ban alcohol for everyone.

Why cant people just take a little ****ing responsibility for themselves every once in awhile. NEWSFLASH: FAST FOOD IS NOT GOOD FOR YOU!

its not even cheap

[nelms]

Yeah and let a cancer patient want to smoke a joint and suddenly we are trading hats. Get off the high horse.

Marijuana should be legal, for everyone, not just cancer patients. But, our government decided a long time ago what was good for us and what was bad for us. Apparently, alcohol is ok, but marijuana isn't.

[nelms]

Actually, community self-policing is a function encouraged by the moderators. Of course you're too busy trolling to figure that out. Contribute or leave.

Ok, then self-police yourself, because you haven't contributed a goddamn thing in this thread.

[dreamingwolf]

Actually, community self-policing is a function encouraged by the moderators. Of course you're too busy trolling to figure that out. Contribute or leave.

theres community self-policing and theres a group grudge posse.

[Seabee1973]

Again, how do you know whether the food you eat at a restaurant was cooked with hydrogenated or non-hydrogenated oils?

I'd be just as happy with warning labels on the menus for any product made with trans fats, but I'll settle for a ban.

Maybe we should bring back red dye #2, and you can guess whether colored foods you eat are made with it or some other dye. Trans fats are far more deadly.

the problem witrh red dye #2 was you had to eat a hundred pounds of food in it a day to make it kill you and that was over like a 10 yr period.

[SonnyRules]

If that means I only live to be 55 or 60 instead of 70 or 75 and die of a massive corronary or something similar, so be it. I will enjoy myself while I am here.

Wait till your my age and see if you're still singing that same song. I use to say exaxtly the same thing. As you get older, your prespective changes.

[Zen-like Todd]

Ok, then self-police yourself, because you haven't contributed a goddamn thing in this thread.

That is the contribution. You're in a no win situation nelms.

[dreamingwolf]

Wait till your my age and see if you're still singing that same song. I use to say exaxtly the same thing. As you get older, your prespective changes.

and so it should if you choose to. The thing is who are we to tell other people how to live or die, who made us the grand marshal?

If someone wants to live there life on a steady diet of bacon and beer, who are you or me to tell them they cant do it. We can say, hey buddy you might want to eat some veggies or some other meats other than bacon. But if bacon and beer is all he wants what right do you have to prevent him from that.

[nelms]

That is the contribution. You're in a no win situation nelms.

Bull****. You get your panties all in a bunch because your left wing views don't jive with my views. Who's really the troll? Contribute something or YOU leave.

[Zen-like Todd]

Bull****. You get your panties all in a bunch because your left wing views don't jive with my views. Who's really the troll? Contribute something or YOU leave.

You came in and personally attacked an individual based on imputed personal characteristics, completely devoid of content. Clearly you're the one with their panties in a bunch. So emotionally distraught about your inability to conjure any remotely reasonable counterpoint, all you have is your irrational, seething anger and resentment. Contribute or leave.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Wait till your my age and see if you're still singing that same song. I use to say exaxtly the same thing. As you get older, your prespective changes.

Sonny, I have no interest in growing old... gracefully or not. Personally, I'm kind of hoping that about that somewhere in that age 55-60 range I go to bed one night, have a massive heart attack and just never wake up. It would save a whole lot of people a whole lot of hastle.

[dreamingwolf]

That is the contribution. You're in a no win situation nelms.

we know you dont like him, theres no need to tell him to go away. Me and chom are about the best example of people who hate each other, neither of us have ever told each other to never post here(as far as I know).

I suggest you take our stance. Refute them or ignore them, its not your job to call your opposition a troll.

[nelms]

You came in and personally attacked an individual based on imputed personal characteristics, completely devoid of content. Clearly you're the one with their panties in a bunch. So emotionally distraught about your inability to conjure any remotely reasonable counterpoint, all you have is your irrational, seething anger and resentment. Contribute or leave.

:stfu: How's that for a contribution, Zen-like "Mod". :laugh:

[dreamingwolf]

:stfu: How's that for a contribution, Zen-like "Mod". :laugh:

how about you stop picking at the wound?

[SonnyRules]

Sonny, I have no interest in growing old... gracefully or not. Personally, I'm kind of hoping that about that somewhere in that age 55-60 range I go to bed one night, have a massive heart attack and just never wake up. It would save a whole lot of people a whole lot of hastle.

I used to think the exact same way until I had my 1st heart attack eight years ago when I was 49. Just had my second in September at age 57. My perspective change, don't know why, it just did.

[iheartskins]

I forgot the smiley Des. My mistake.

In any case...as long as there is substantial evidence, not necessarily to an irrefutable standard, but perhaps a reasonable doubt, then I'm ok with administrative action of the sort. The problem is that too many administrative agencies go largely unchecked, in no small part because of the difficulty of challenging their decisions.

You've demonstrated that there are some substantial reasons behind the ban. Let's just ensure (or hope) that the same methodology and vetting process will take place in respect to future issues of this sort.

[stevenaa]

I can't believe this is even being argued. As a consumer, unless you read the label, you don't know it's there. It isn't adding to the taste of the food. Trans fat is manufactured with one purpose. Shelf life. It is undisputed that it is hughely unhealthy. As a responsible adult, I read labels and avoid it. But many of the consumers of the most heavily ladened products of trans fats are teenagers and young adults who still suffer from invincibility delusions. The industry needs to come up with a healthier alternative. Free market will never force that, because people are stupid, lazy and don't take their health seriously until they are ill. You can't mistakenly smoke a cigarette. You know what you're doing when you puff on one. That's not the case with Trans fats.

[Zen-like Todd]

:stfu: How's that for a contribution, Zen-like "Mod". :laugh:

Acting like a six year old isn't helping your cause.

[dreamingwolf]

Acting like a six year old isn't helping your cause.

the scab will never heal