Larry Brown #43 Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Aren't we glad we didn't throw Ramsey to the wolves in his first year? We could have wrecked his confidence for good. Thanks to all the wise folks who warned us against doing that. :moon: :rotflmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 LB, Point of fact, Ramsey's played in one game and has not yet started. We have no idea how his confidence will hold up. He certainly appears to be promising in that regard which would make many folks, like me, wrong about playing him right away for fear of destroying his confidence if he experienced failure early. I just don't know that a "told ya so" post is necessary even if he proves to be a Pro Bowler at the end of the year. I am certain it's not necessary after one start. You see, no one was wishing him to do poorly. Watching the progress of others who were thrown in before they were ready was the precedent that concerned others. It would be splendid if Ramsey turns out to be an exception to the general rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted October 10, 2002 Author Share Posted October 10, 2002 Originally posted by Art LB, Point of fact, Ramsey's played in one game and has not yet started. We have no idea how his confidence will hold up. He certainly appears to be promising in that regard which would make many folks, like me, wrong about playing him right away for fear of destroying his confidence if he experienced failure early. I just don't know that a "told ya so" post is necessary even if he proves to be a Pro Bowler at the end of the year. I am certain it's not necessary after one start. You see, no one was wishing him to do poorly. Watching the progress of others who were thrown in before they were ready was the precedent that concerned others. It would be splendid if Ramsey turns out to be an exception to the general rule. I understand what you're saying, but here's why I disagree. In Troy Aikman's rookie season, Dallas won only one game. And as I recall, as a rookie Peyton Manning's Colts team won only three games. Both were thrown into the fire in their rookie season and both took their lumps -- and their losses. But both have proven that the experience didn't wreck their confidence. These are just two examples, but they illustrate my point. If a QB gets so rattled his rookie year that he ultimately doesn't make it, then he was never cut out to be an NFL QB in the first place. This whole idea of QBs blowing their confidence early on is bogus in my opinion. Heath was thrown into the fire and he bombed out. Why? Because he couldn't play in the NFL, not because his confidence was shaken. Either you can handle it or you can't. Further advancing my point is the fact that we didn't exactly have a Pro Bowl QB on the roster ahead of Ramsey. If that were the case, I could understand the calls for caution. Instead, we had a couple of clowns impersonating NFL quarterbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 Heath's confidence was shaken, but you are right that he couldn't play in the NFL. Ryan Leaf could. So could Akili Smith. So could Cade McNown. Largely, you develop more top QBs by not throwing them in from the beginning than you do by throwing them in at the beginning. Focusing on the general exception to the rule isn't persuasive. Aikman and Manning did develop. While NEITHER method assures any success, by in large, if you go through the list of starting QBs in the NFL, you'll find very few players who started the moment they landed on the roster and you'll find a lot of players who started after some time on the roster to be brought along. Ramsey, apparently, wasn't thrown in too quickly. But, again, it's been a week. He could have four interceptions next week and get boo'd off the field. Or, like Tim Couch, he could boo'd while being hurt, and alter his feeling about playing football for that team forever. Doesn't matter to me as long as we find whatever formula that works to make him our future . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted October 10, 2002 Author Share Posted October 10, 2002 I don't know that Akili Smith, Leaf or McNown could play in the NFL. I haven't seen proof of it yet. (And let's not be like the GatorSkins and start pointing to what they did in college). Leaf is a complete idiot with absolutely no desire to excel. That's his own fault, not his coaches'. There is really no way to prove that any of those guys failed because they were thrown into the fire to quickly. I stand by my belief that either a guy is cut out to be an NFL QB or he's not. As for your point about the majority of starting QBs in the league not starting the moment they landed on the roster, the obvious explanation for that is because the majority of them weren't originally first round picks and were not necessarily expected to become starters. For example, two of the last three Super Bowl winning QBs, Kurt Warner and Tom Brady, came out of nowhere to accomplish great things. They weren't given starting jobs upon arrival because they weren't highly touted prospects. But would they have become failures if they had started right out of the box? In my opinion, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Clone Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 Best quarterback EVER!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted October 10, 2002 Author Share Posted October 10, 2002 Originally posted by DC_Clone Best quarterback EVER!!! That was informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 I agree with you Larry. I think each qb is an individual that may or may not succeed starting in the NFL right away. It all comes down to their mental toughness. We don't know for sure about Ramsey, but all signs point to him being able to handle the good and bad times. The benefit that Ramsey has is that the Skins are a better team than Troy Aikmans Cowboys or Manning's Colts. As I've said before, there is only one qb that excelled in his rookie year and that was Marino, and he had the benefit of falling to a good Dolphins team. Ramsey is in a similar position. The Skins are not as good as Marino's Dolphins in 83, but they are alot better than the Lions and Texans or Aikmans Boys or Mannings Colts. But regardless, only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 Larry, First off there is no way in he11 skins fans would tolerate a rebuilding season which is what we would have viewed this year if we came out of the blocks with Ramsey under center. The approach S Dub used was the way to go. Why put the kid in two games at FedEx where he would have been throttled against the iggles? So take the 20/20 hindsight over to the so called experts who all of a sudden have bright ideas of how they could have prevented 9-11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted October 10, 2002 Author Share Posted October 10, 2002 Hold up, Navy Dave...I'm not saying Ramsey should have started from game 1. The whole discussion came about AFTER both of our other QBs were less than effective in running Spurrier's offense in the regular season. There's no hindsight about it. There was legitimate debate on this forum as to whether or not Ramsey should start the TITANS game. It wasn't hindsight...it was "THEN-sight," because we were discussing it then. Hindsight is when something happens that couldn't possibly have been predicted. Not the case here, as evidenced by the debate prior to the Titans game. I don't think anyone in his right mind would have said Ramsey should have started from weeek 1. The debate was generated AFTER Shane and Danny failed to impress. What you don't realize is that when you say Spurrier's approach was the way to go, you are actually AGREEING with me. I applaud Spurrier for putting Ramsey in when he did. Others on this board were not sold on the idea of playing him that early for fear his confidence could get wrecked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 It just depends on the situation. For Culpepper, sitting was probably a good thing. He came from a small school program that, while it did run a pro style offense, did not play schools with intricate defenses. McNown was not thrown to the wolves, he was brought in on a very selective basis for a series or two each game. It was stupid, actually. Akili Smith was injured his rookie season. He has really had very few starts. Ryan Leaf was a head case. On the other hand, didn't Donavan McNabb start from day one, or close to it, and he seems to be playing OK. It depends a lot on their college experiences, whether they came out early and a bunch of other factors. Ramsey was not ready in the first game. But it seems he is ready now. We may have lucked out more than we first thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMADD Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 Come on, guys. He's played one game. One spectacular game, but only one game. If he struggles against NO, are we going to say it's too early for him to play? He's shown that he doesn't get rattled -- that's a great start. But he WILL struggle this year, and he WILL make mistakes. Hopefully he can brush them off and keep going. My big concern with Ramsey is not that he'll get his precious ego crushed and never recover -- it's that he'll get his ribcage crushed the way he stands in the pocket and takes those hits. It's brave, but I want him still standing at the end of the year. Veteran QBs learn how to avoid some of the contact. Rookies often go out there and try to prove how tough they are. We don't need that in a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Cannon Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 The wolves will be out on Sunday. Have fun kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavarthebeast Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 Originally posted by joe On the other hand, didn't Donavan McNabb start from day one, or close to it, and he seems to be playing OK. No. Doug Pederson was their starter for over half the season, despite all of Philly hounding Reid to put McNabb in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted October 11, 2002 Author Share Posted October 11, 2002 Originally posted by Loose Cannon The wolves will be out on Sunday. Have fun kid. ...The Titans tried to confuse Ramsey with their biggest assortments of blitzes this season as well as far more man-to-man coverage, but Ramsey held his own. ''We let a rookie quarterback come in here again and let him drive the ball down the field,'' defensive tackle John Thornton said. ''They got into a rhythm. I don't know what they were doing to us, but it was working … You would think you could rattle a rookie quarterback..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PediGator Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 It's this "He's either cut out to play QB in the NFL or he's not" attitude that has made QB the worst played and worst coached position in all of professional sports. The level of QB play in this league has been abysmal in my opinion for years now, and its remarkable to me how little progress some teams are making. Is anyone coaching Akili Smith? Oh I forgot... he's "not cut out..." Tim Couch? Hello? What progress has me made since he's been in the league? Surely he's "cut out" to atleast get better week to week. Anyone who had anything to do with "coaching" Peyton Manning last year should refund their paychecks. Culpepper? I know his team has been through a bunch of crap... but come on... this guy's game is regressing week to week. McNair... the talent around him has regressed right? Well guess what, his game should be improving as time goes on to atleast compensate for the rest of the team a little bit... instead, as goes the team around him, so goes he... What happened to QBs actually lifting the play of teams around them? How embarrasing is it that probably 85% of QBs in the NFL are asked "not to lose the game" any given Sunday? Some of these so-called QB coaches around the league are just shifting responsibility with this "not cut out to play in this league BS." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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