Saunders and Four Wideouts?

[B.A.M.F.]

Some of you are playing fantasy football. Let me explain the way winning football works in the NFL. You just don't throw the football all over the place and expect to win. The Colts are a good example of a great passing team that never goes to the Superbowl.

The Chiefs had a horrible defense over tha last few years. They were behind many times because their defense couldn't stop anyone. Other times they were ahead only to find the other team going up and down the field as fast as the chiefs. Because of the horrible defense the offense HAD to, and was FORCED TO, pass. But with the running game that they had, if their defense was a top 5 defense, they would have run, run and then run some more when they had the lead.

When our Skins get the lead, regardless of our stellar talent at wide receiver, I wouldn't count on seeing the 4 wideout receiver set very often and never in the 2nd half if we have the lead. Look for the Skins to run, run, and run some more once they have the lead. Most passes will be to the backs out of the backfield when we have the lead. I really don't see Saunders breaking ranks with Gibbs and throwing all over the place in the 3rd quarter if we have a 2 TD lead.

Look for the Skins defense, DEFENSE, to set the tone and determine how much this team will pass. However, we have the receivers for the first time in years. SO, when we throw we will probably be more effective and keep drives going in order to run out the clock. Just don't expect to see 4 wideout sets very often. Won't happen when we have the lead, and this team is going to have the lead in most every game.

My thought as well after reading this thread. How much of those numbers the Chiefs put up was because of lousy D? I expect great passing numbers for this team... in the first half. In the second half expect lower totals, but hopfully a higher comp % as we run out the clock. If you are in a FF league, take Portis!

[Laxpunk2006]

I don't know why guys are questioning Brunell? He struggled last season after we lost Patten, and it got even worse when we lost Randy T. Brunell is going to prove the critics wrong again this season and have his best season ever. I mean its inevitable, we have maybe the best O-line in the NFC, at least top 3 in wr's core, and a top 5 rb w/ another very good backup in Betts.

Just look at the facts, Brunell was a top 5 qb when we were healthy on O and now that we're even deeper this season, he won't look as bad if we lose an O-lineman and a wideout. Our running game will always dictate how well we do overall at Qb, the better we run, the better Brunell and any qb gets in this league. So Brunell, if anything, should be 1 of our least worried about positions. I also belive Campbell could do well for the same reasons, top 5 O-line, top 5 Wrs, top 5 rbs.

I don't know if numbers will tell the whole story b/c we will be a run 1st team, I mean Gibbs is still strategizing and is still the head coach, so we will be 1 of the few teams that can open it up w/ the passing game, or come out and pound you to the dirt. Brunell will be counted on to lead us b/c of what he did last season and I don't have any doubts about his leadership, and w/ a better core around him and other qbs (Campbell), I can't see the qb being as big a question Mark, get it? Mark. :laugh: as it has in the past.

I remember alot guys doggin Brunell before last season and he only threw 23 tds w/ only 10 picks, if anything he will throw closer to 30 tds this season and maybe 10 picks. I guess we won't stop questioning him until he wins a superbowl, I could see it happening almost exactly like Elway and having him go out on top w/ a superbowl, at least 1 anyway.

Then the only question is Campbell, can he be the leader that Brunell and other qbs were under Gibbs regime?

We may be deeper at reciever this year but we really don't know about offensive line yet. We've picked up some young vets, and a few rookies who could all be in the mix but we have no idea what to expect. Untill I see a backup lineman emerge I will treat our line's depth as a problem area.

[MCnDaHouse]

I'm hoping there will be plenty of offense to spread around and Patten will get plenty of catches as well as the others.

MC

[Fish434]

Brunell doesn't need to be a top 5 QB. He needs to be efficient. If he can manage the offense, avoid mistakes, and spread the ball around, he'll have all the weapons he needs around him to make it work. He doesn't need to carry the team on his back. He's got Portis and Moss and Cooley to do that.

Can you say, "Mark Rypien"?

[NavyDave]

Actually i see us being agressive on offense as we are on defense.

4 WR set allows the stretch run by Portis add the no huddle to it and there is the reverse or WR screen

I envision us having the 10-0 lead or more which allows are defense to tee on and go after the opposing QB.

[DrunkenMaster]

ReceivingRecYdsAvgTDMarshall Faulk87104812.05Isaac Bruce77116515.112Torry Holt5278815.26Az-zahir Hakim3667718.88Ricky Proehl3334910.60Roland Williams252269.06Robert Holcombe1416311.61

These are the 1999 Rams receiving stats. When he did not have a great TE the RB and 4th reciever caught more passes. This offense will have a sick amount of options.

Sorry thats hard to read here is the link.

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1999-stl

[Guest NebraSKIN]

You know what I notice about Saunders' past receivers . . . . they were mediocre at best. TE best in the business, but WRs not really that good. Can you imagine what he is going to do with our talent. WOW.

With all the hand-wringing about Patten's fate (and joyful celebration about Jacobs'), I thought I'd take a look back at how Saunders used his receivers in KC. Is there room for a fourth receiver?

In 2004, he had five receivers with significant yardage:

Kennison 62/1086

Morton 55/795

Blaylock 25/245

Hall 25/230

and

Gonzalez 102/1258

In 2005, it looked like this:

Kennison 68/1102

Parker 36/533

Hall 34/436

Horn 18/187

and

Gonzalez 78/905

Those number are skewed, of course, because Gonzalez is such a dominant pass-catching tight end. Has to make Cooley happy though. But it does show that Saunders likes to spread the ball around. I realize this is apples-and-oranges, because he had Green throwing the ball, but it's still interesting.

If he uses Moss, Lloyd, ARE, and Cooley the way he used his receivers last year, you'd expect Moss, Lloyd, and ARE to get the lion's share of the balls thrown to receivers. ARE won't be a forgotten man -- 25-35 catches is nothing to sneeze at, although it's below the 35-45 he was getting in Pittsburgh. His 4th receiver seems to have hovered around 18-25 catches, so Patten won't get much more than a catch and a half per game.

I imagine, however, that Saunders will adjust to the talent he has here -- Moss is clearly better than Kennison, so I'd expect Moss to catch more balls. And Cooley, while great, is not Gonzalez, so I'd expect fewer balls thrown his way. That probably doesn't change the number of balls left over for the other guys, though. Lloyd is probably looking at 40-50 catches if he emerges as the true #2, and ARE gets 25-35 -- and probably more when Saunders figures out how to exploit his multidimensional talent. Patten gets the scraps.

So in the end I don't think there's a lot of hope for Patten. Yeah, the best guy plays, but the Skins have invested a lot in Lloyd and ARE for a reason.

[skinny21]

Some of you are playing fantasy football. Let me explain the way winning football works in the NFL. You just don't throw the football all over the place and expect to win. The Colts are a good example of a great passing team that never goes to the Superbowl.

The Chiefs had a horrible defense over tha last few years. They were behind many times because their defense couldn't stop anyone. Other times they were ahead only to find the other team going up and down the field as fast as the chiefs. Because of the horrible defense the offense HAD to, and was FORCED TO, pass. But with the running game that they had, if their defense was a top 5 defense, they would have run, run and then run some more when they had the lead.

When our Skins get the lead, regardless of our stellar talent at wide receiver, I wouldn't count on seeing the 4 wideout receiver set very often and never in the 2nd half if we have the lead. Look for the Skins to run, run, and run some more once they have the lead. Most passes will be to the backs out of the backfield when we have the lead. I really don't see Saunders breaking ranks with Gibbs and throwing all over the place in the 3rd quarter if we have a 2 TD lead.

Look for the Skins defense, DEFENSE, to set the tone and determine how much this team will pass. However, we have the receivers for the first time in years. SO, when we throw we will probably be more effective and keep drives going in order to run out the clock. Just don't expect to see 4 wideout sets very often. Won't happen when we have the lead, and this team is going to have the lead in most every game.

AMEN! I keep thinking about the Cards when everyone talks about how much yardage kc's passing game racked up...I'm looking forward to a well balanced offense that doesn't have to do too much (see the quoted portion about defense).

On the flip side, its nice to know that on paper our offense has the ability to win games if our defense falls apart for any reason(not likely!).

[skinny21]

ReceivingRecYdsAvgTDMarshall Faulk87104812.05Isaac Bruce77116515.112Torry Holt5278815.26Az-zahir Hakim3667718.88Ricky Proehl3334910.60Roland Williams252269.06Robert Holcombe1416311.61

These are the 1999 Rams receiving stats. When he did not have a great TE the RB and 4th reciever caught more passes. This offense will have a sick amount of options.

Sorry thats hard to read here is the link.

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1999-stl

Whadduya know, a fellow austin skins fan!

[Rawdawg]

DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE....it's no secret what wins Championships, every year it's the same thing over and over. Peyton and the Colts, Donovan and the Eagles, even the Panthers and Seahawks had at times spectacular offenses, but what won the big one??? DEFENSE. The Skins D will need to set the tone every game, when you get an offense pressing, that's when the turnovers come. Last year, the skins D had very few turnovers the first 6 games or so, then all of a sudden the D started asseting their will on people and the turnovers came as did the wins. Any offense can score on a short field, and good D's give you that. My favorite thing about our newly structured offense isn't the playmakers, it's our newfound and better ability to sustain drives and get our D the rest it needs to absolutely knock the $&*# out of people every time on the field. Skins Super Bowl MVP Prediction.....Sean Taylor.

[NavyDave]

Defense helps win championships.

Saunders offense with our defense in the playoffs would have had us in the superbowl against the steelers

[NVskinsfan]

What are opposing defensive coordinators going to do prior to games on Sunday???

Stop portis, then the WRs will dominate, stop WRs, then Portis could have 200/game...

Blitz, then live by the sword and die by the sword....

Glad we are solid in all "3" areas...?Offense, Defense, Special teams!

Go Skinz

[dfos81]

What are opposing defensive coordinators going to do prior to games on Sunday???

Stop portis, then the WRs will dominate, stop WRs, then Portis could have 200/game...

Blitz, then live by the sword and die by the sword....

Glad we are solid in all "3" areas...?Offense, Defense, Special teams!

Go Skinz

Thats why we will win. I guess if we have any weak spots it would be if 1 of our O-lineman got hurt again, that could throw off the O a bit. I'm not worried b/c we will be competing for a playoff spot all season. Its going to be fun to watch! :point2sky

[nfchamp1]

...Saunders offense with our defense in the playoffs would have had us in the superbowl against the steelers

NavyD, you've got to be kidding me. Lest we forget, it is Joe Gibbs offence that went to 4 and won 3 superbowls in ten years. Sanders would not have won squat with last year's offence. Did you see that O-Line in Kansas City?

[redman100]

I think we have excellent pass catching weapons, and a QB who can definately get the ball to them. In case some of you don't know it, Mark Brunell is number 21 on the ALL-TIME NFL passing yardage leader chart.

This year he will move past these QB's if he only matches last years numbers.

Troy Aikman

Steve Young

John Hadl

Phil Simms

That's not too shabby for those of you who think he has a bad arm.

He's had a great career. And he did it with really only one great pass catcher at Jacksonville, and an expansion team to boot.

[Guest NebraSKIN]

I agree, but is it safe to say that Offense wins playoff games?

I loved CP on NFL total access . . . pounding his fist saying he hates to play out D in practice.

We rock. Gonna be a fun year.

DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE....it's no secret what wins Championships, every year it's the same thing over and over. Peyton and the Colts, Donovan and the Eagles, even the Panthers and Seahawks had at times spectacular offenses, but what won the big one??? DEFENSE. The Skins D will need to set the tone every game, when you get an offense pressing, that's when the turnovers come. Last year, the skins D had very few turnovers the first 6 games or so, then all of a sudden the D started asseting their will on people and the turnovers came as did the wins. Any offense can score on a short field, and good D's give you that. My favorite thing about our newly structured offense isn't the playmakers, it's our newfound and better ability to sustain drives and get our D the rest it needs to absolutely knock the $&*# out of people every time on the field. Skins Super Bowl MVP Prediction.....Sean Taylor.

[redskins55]

Nice insight but honestly it will mean nothing in the end. Gibbs and Saunders brought these guys in to "make plays over time" not to "compete for 1,000 yrd seasons" . When their number is called they are expected to make a play even when one isn't there to be made. Its better to look at the production over time in the system to really gain insight to what might really happen during these years.

Monk avergaed nearly 1,000yds/yr , Clark 1500yds/yr and Sanders around 900yds/yr while here in Washington under Gibbs. Torry Holt avg nearly 1500yrs/yr, Issac Bruce 1100yds/yr and Az Hakim avg 700yds/yr while in St. Louis under Saunders. These accomplishments were achieved while having 1,000 yrd backs in Ernest Byner and Marshal Faulk. This shows that each year a different receiver may lead the team in yards or receptions depending on what the defense allows. Patten, Moss, Randle El and Lloyd will all make contributions to this system during the years that they are here.

[dfos81]

Nice insight but honestly it will mean nothing in the end. Gibbs and Saunders brought these guys in to "make plays over time" not to "compete for 1,000 yrd seasons" . When their number is called they are expected to make a play even when one isn't there to be made. Its better to look at the production over time in the system to really gain insight to what might really happen during these years.

Monk avergaed nearly 1,000yds/yr , Clark 1500yds/yr and Sanders around 900yds/yr while here in Washington under Gibbs. Torry Holt avg nearly 1500yrs/yr, Issac Bruce 1100yds/yr and Az Hakim avg 700yds/yr while in St. Louis under Saunders. These accomplishments were achieved while having 1,000 yrd backs in Ernest Byner and Marshal Faulk. This shows that each year a different receiver may lead the team in yards or receptions depending on what the defense allows. Patten, Moss, Randle El and Lloyd will all make contributions to this system during the years that they are here.

Just to add to that, I could see Patten...YES D.P. making a bigger impact then what people seem to think.

Heres a lil prediction, which I don't like doing, but this seems to be a good time for 1.

Moss: 101 receptions, 1200 yds rec. w/ 6 tds Moss's tds will be harder to come by w/ defenses being all over Moss.

I could see D.P. playing better then we've seen in a Skins uni yet.

Patten: 74 recp. 1000 yds rec w/ 4tds.

Lloyd will make all the tuff catches, which will be in the REDZONE! I could see Lloyd having the most td cths.

B.L...86 cths. w/ 1100 rec yds and 13 tds, I may be dreaming but what else is there to do right around this time of the year.

Antwan Randel El a.k.a. ARE, I understand why this guy has 3 names on his jersey, HE'S A TRIPLE THREAT! He can run, pass, and catch! He could lead our team in SPteams yds and could also lead our team in all-purpose yds.

ARE: 60 cths w/ 700 yds and 3 rec tds w/ 2 spteams and a whole Sheeet load of returning yds, and throws for 4tds.

I really hope this dream comes true, then the media will say :doh: Now I understand why they paid this guy SO MUCH. :laugh:

Actually it will be like this,

Media: " This is what they paid him all the big bucks for ".

Like they knew it all along

By the way C.P. makes me get the feeling like this team is pretty special and I can see he knows we got a great D. C.P. BAP, BAP, BAP when Stephen Jackson was trying to tell Rich and the Shefter dude how he would fair against the Skins. GREAT STUFF NFL NETWORK!

Guys complain about us not being on Nfl Net and now look. I'll give credit, were credit is do, and Nfl Total Access is doing a good job now that we got a Redskin on it.

[BURGUNDYnGOLD123]

if we do run a four write receiver set, all i have to say is that i feel sorry for whoever their 3rd and 4th dbs are cuz they are pretty much guaranteed to get burned.

[NicholSkin]

But, you guys gotta realize that it's not Saunders throwing the ball to these receivers... A lot is riding on Brunell and his ability to adopt Saunder's offense... Just a reality check!

Trent Green has a career rating of 88.3, and Brunell has a rating of 84.1. Wow, what a huge drop off.

What exactly has TG accomplished without Saunders? Give Mark a chance for goodness sake. Why does everybody hate.

[HailfrmDEN]

i dont think we need to run 4 WR sets to open the field up. we already have enough weapons to spread the field and everything will be wide open for CP

Your right but think about who will get open if there are four wr and cp in the back. Plus i just read an article have a different thread quoting saunfers for sayin portis and betts will be on the field at the sametime. So three wr and CP and betts holy moo.:helmet: :puke:

[TheDirtbags]

if we win, im happy

good stats are only gravy