Steeler ARE vs. Redskin ARE

[Langford78]

I know I'm going to get **** from some people on this board about letting the press "get to me", but I decided to post this anyway.

I've read several articles during the offseason about how several football "experts" (Z and Queen among them) don't think the addition of Randle El to our offense is all that big of a deal. However, I was just reading another SI article about how the Steelers are in danger of taking a step backwards in the upcoming season. One quote in this article struck me as odd: "Losing wide receiver Antwaan Randle El in free agency is a big blow because of the versatility he brought to the offense and his explosiveness as a return man."

I totally agree with that quote, I think adding ARE will be an equally big addition to our team for the exact reasons that quote listed. And while I know that different writers have different opinions, I think this is just another example of anti-Skins bias. It seems that the Randle El Pittsburg lost is this tremendous, versatile player, while the Randle El the Redskins signed is just an average WR who "only" caught 35 passes last year.

Anyway, here's the article I'm talking about.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jeffri_chadiha/06/21/playoffs/index.html

[1028046]

Losing your number 2 WR on any team is going to set you back but I think the writer is more concerned as should all steelers fans be in the accident Ben got into and ARE's replacement SAntonio Holmes getting arrested twice already.

Ahh got to love them ohio state boys

[Symbol]

Randel El is going to help the team out with the fact that he is the #2 reciever. He can return kicks, that's something we needed help in last season. We now can put in some trick plays, that Coach Gibbs occasionally liked to do his first time around.

Then with Lloyd at #3, of course Moss as #1, this could be as scary a recieving squad as the Posse. Plus with Cooley, Sellers, Portis, our O-line, and even Patten as the #4 reciever, this offense has the potential to be the Rams offense with Vermiel. However, with our defense, this could be the most dominate team to ever put on helmets.

[MRMADD]

ARE is going to be a role player with the Skins. He's a dangerous return man, which is definitely a need -- I still have Antonio Brown nightmares -- and he's also got to be accounted for on offense because of his versatility. But he's not really frightening as a pure receiver. Remember, no team looked at ARE or Lloyd as #1 receivers -- they both have strengths, but they both have some glaring weaknesses, too.

If ARE catches 40 balls for 600 yards, and Lloyd catches 30 balls for 400 yards, they've done their jobs. That would be a massive improvement over the production the Skins got out of their #2 and #3 receivers last year. But that would mean, of course, that neither of them would look all the good, statistically speaking. They'd be something like the 60th and 70th best receivers in the league. Yawn, right?

But imagine this scenario:

Moss 80 catches, 1500 yards

Cooley 70 catches, 700 yards

ARE 40 catches, 600 yards

Lloyd 30 catches, 400 yards

Portis 30 catches, 200 yards

That's 3,400 yards receiving -- Portis, Moss, and Cooley get pretty much the same production as last year, and ARE and Lloyd delivery fairly pedestrian numbers. Figure you get a couple hundred more yards from guys like Betts, etc., throughout the season. That's 3,600 yards passing. And guess what? That means the Skins would be a top ten passing offense. Couple that with Portis rushing, and that's a recipe for the Superbowl.

So the Skins don't need ARE to be a "big addition". He just needs to be a solid. Spectacular as a return man, and just good enough as a receiver to draw attention from Moss and Cooley. That would be perfect.

[1028046]

ARE is going to be a role player with the Skins. He's a dangerous return man, which is definitely a need -- I still have Antonio Brown nightmares -- and he's also got to be accounted for on offense because of his versatility. But he's not really frightening as a pure receiver. Remember, no team looked at ARE or Lloyd as #1 receivers -- they both have strengths, but they both have some glaring weaknesses, too.

If ARE catches 40 balls for 600 yards, and Lloyd catches 30 balls for 400 yards, they've done their jobs. That would be a massive improvement over the production the Skins got out of their #2 and #3 receivers last year. But that would mean, of course, that neither of them would look all the good, statistically speaking. They'd be something like the 60th and 70th best receivers in the league. Yawn, right?

But imagine this scenario:

Moss 80 catches, 1500 yards

Cooley 70 catches, 700 yards

ARE 40 catches, 600 yards

Lloyd 30 catches, 400 yards

Portis 30 catches, 200 yards

That's 3,400 yards receiving -- Portis, Moss, and Cooley get pretty much the same production as last year, and ARE and Lloyd delivery fairly pedestrian numbers. Figure you get a couple hundred more yards from guys like Betts, etc., throughout the season. That's 3,600 yards passing. And guess what? That means the Skins would be a top ten passing offense. Couple that with Portis rushing, and that's a recipe for the Superbowl.

So the Skins don't need ARE to be a "big addition". He just needs to be a solid. Spectacular as a return man, and just good enough as a receiver to draw attention from Moss and Cooley. That would be perfect.

Good points

My only opinion on the matter would be that if Lloyd does not end up being the number 2 receiver that does not reflect well on him since we all know ARE can do a lot of things but Lloyd can only do one and thats play receiver.

[[[ghost]]]

I know I'm going to get **** from some people on this board about letting the press "get to me", but I decided to post this anyway.

I've read several articles during the offseason about how several football "experts" (Z and Queen among them) don't think the addition of Randle El to our offense is all that big of a deal. However, I was just reading another SI article about how the Steelers are in danger of taking a step backwards in the upcoming season. One quote in this article struck me as odd: "Losing wide receiver Antwaan Randle El in free agency is a big blow because of the versatility he brought to the offense and his explosiveness as a return man."

I totally agree with that quote, I think adding ARE will be an equally big addition to our team for the exact reasons that quote listed. And while I know that different writers have different opinions, I think this is just another example of anti-Skins bias. It seems that the Randle El Pittsburg lost is this tremendous, versatile player, while the Randle El the Redskins signed is just an average WR who "only" caught 35 passes last year.

Anyway, here's the article I'm talking about.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jeffri_chadiha/06/21/playoffs/index.html

although i disagree, i can certainly see your point. ARE would have less significance if he was brought in to be our number 2, because lets face it, he's not a great receiever. versatile yes, but not great. however, he makes a superb number 3. having him and brandon lloyd will not only help our recieveing game, it'll help our running game. cooley, moss, ARE, and lloyd will lall require significant attention. we could play action all day and have success.

[Inigo Montoya]

But imagine this scenario:

Moss 80 catches, 1500 yards

Cooley 70 catches, 700 yards

ARE 40 catches, 600 yards

Lloyd 30 catches, 400 yards

Portis 30 catches, 200 yards

That's 3,400 yards receiving -- Portis, Moss, and Cooley get pretty much the same production as last year, and ARE and Lloyd delivery fairly pedestrian numbers. Figure you get a couple hundred more yards from guys like Betts, etc., throughout the season. That's 3,600 yards passing. And guess what? That means the Skins would be a top ten passing offense. Couple that with Portis rushing, and that's a recipe for the Superbowl.

.

You and everyone else is are forgetting one thing... David Patten. All of the coaches and talk is about Patten coming back strong, he needs to be given a chance to succeed. Please realize that we have not 3 good wide receivers but 4!!!! :2cents:

[fdarugar]

I really dont think that there will be a clear #2/#3 WR in this offense ARE and Lloyd will get an equal amount of time at WR due to our new offense scheme. I can't wait to see what we look like out there...I wasn't too hot on ARE in the begining but I have come to realize that he is the ultimate x-factor...if he isnt making a play he always has to be accounted for.

[jmcardle1982]

I don't understand why it is assumed that ARE is our #2. He played a lot of slot receiver in Pittsburgh and I believe that his role will remain relatively the same here. Our number two is Lloyd. He caught just under 50 passes last year with a quarterback that has as much talent as my little sister. I project Lloyd to catch between 60-75 with around 750 yards and 4-6 TD's. ARE will be more of a homerun threat that we will use to create missmatches as well as our special teams leader. Patten can also turn into a great weapon because he will be used like he was in New England. The bottom line is that our core of receivers is the best it has been since the last Gibbs era.

[illone]

Nice post, Madd. One thing I can't get out of my mind, our receivers are superior to what KC had last year. Their best receiver was clearly Gonzo, and Cooley had a similar year last year but with a bunch more scores. Moss is far superior to their best actual wide out (Kennison) and below him the talent level compared to our current roster is nothing short of laughable. If you assume Lloyd to be our actual number 2 (which I do) then you must see how much better he is than Parker. I do. Lloyd outperformed Parker on a team that won four games last year:laugh:

I agree with your primary points but Lloyd is going to end up with more than 30 grabs. Randle-El you are probably very close, but Lloyd right now is widely under the radar as was Moss last season. It wouldn't surprise me to see Lloyd with 60+ catches and Moss have 65 just due to the fact that teams are looking out for Moss. Couple that with the fact our current OC passes first to set up the run I think all our receivers are going to be plenty happy with the passes thrown their way.

[BigRay]

Actually, I do not believe it will the hurt the Steelers one bit they said the same thing when Burress left to go with the Giants. There have been other players that have done what Randle El did long before he became a Steeler. Kordell Stewart did a lot of trick plays .. Hines Ward was the trigger man for a while during the trick plays. They will find some one else it could be Quincy Morgan or Cedrick Wilson taking that role. I think we needed Randle El a little more than what the Steelers will.

[the burgundy and gold]

Ahh got to love them ohio state boys

national champions this year:cheers:

[MRMADD]

You and everyone else is are forgetting one thing... David Patten. All of the coaches and talk is about Patten coming back strong, he needs to be given a chance to succeed. Please realize that we have not 3 good wide receivers but 4!!!! :2cents:

Yeah... I haven't forgotten him. I lumped him into that "other" 200 yards receiving. Look, I like Patten, but he couldn't really do that much last year when he was the undisputed #2, pre-injury, and I don't think we'll see much of him this year. The fourth WR is just an insurance policy. Patten is good and experienced, and if one of the other guys goes down, he'll be able to step in. But I don't expect much of anything from him, production-wise, given how much the Skins have invested in Moss, ARE, and Lloyd.

[fdarugar]

Actually, I do not believe it will the hurt the Steelers one bit they said the same thing when Burress left to go with the Giants. There have been other players that have done what Randle El did long before he became a Steeler. Kordell Stewart did a lot of trick plays .. Hines Ward was the trigger man for a while during the trick plays. They will find some one else it could be Quincy Morgan or Cedrick Wilson taking that role. I think we needed Randle El a little more than what the Steelers will.

While losing Plax didn't hurt...his tools are interchangable like you said about ARE which I disagree with...Wilson and Morgan can pick up the slack recieving the ball but are they playmakers?

[illone]

You and everyone else is are forgetting one thing... David Patten. All of the coaches and talk is about Patten coming back strong, he needs to be given a chance to succeed. Please realize that we have not 3 good wide receivers but 4!!!! :2cents:

Forget about Patten he's old and injury prone. I'd be surprised if he catches 20 passes next season.

We wouldn't have traded for Lloyd if our coaches believed Patten was the long term answer. Gibbs brought Patten in last year to make a push for the post-season last year and for veteran leadership on a team that had very little big game experience. We traded for Lloyd and paid ARE the big bucks so we could stack this team for the next five years. Patten fills the short term need for a veteran leader who has rings.

[icbmayday]

In other words mark brunnel should be headed to Hawaii if he stays healthy

[BigRay]

While losing Plax didn't hurt...his tools are interchangable like you said about ARE which I disagree with...Wilson and Morgan can pick up the slack recieving the ball but are they playmakers?

Well Morgan was hurt if I am not mistaking .. Wilson picked it up in a couple of playoff games he was one of the main reasons they won the AFCC game. He made some clutch catches to keep the chains moving in that game. I guess we will have to see. Cowher always seem to find some one that he can plug in there and do not miss a beat. Pretty much like our team I think the coaching staff here can plug holes and do not miss a beat.

[MRMADD]

Nice post, Madd. ...

I agree with your primary points but Lloyd is going to end up with more than 30 grabs. Randle-El you are probably very close, but Lloyd right now is widely under the radar as was Moss last season. It wouldn't surprise me to see Lloyd with 60+ catches and Moss have 65 just due to the fact that teams are looking out for Moss. Couple that with the fact our current OC passes first to set up the run I think all our receivers are going to be plenty happy with the passes thrown their way.

You could probably switch ARE and Lloyd's numbers. Bottom line, no matter who is #2 and who is #3, if we get 70 catches and 1100 yards out of the two of them, it's a huge leap forward.

Last year the Skins got 48 catches for 529 yards out of their #2, #3, #4, and #5 receivers combined. Blame it on Brunell's tunnel vision, blame it on injuries, blame it on whatever you want: that's a pathetic stat. Getting 70/1100 from those two guys makes a huge difference.

I don't feel strongly about which one becomes the #2 or #3. I like ARE's versatility, but he's not a great receiver. Lloyd is a great receiver -- on those rare occasions that he's actually paying attention. If you're right and Lloyd gets 60 catches, something remarkable has happened. I don't like the idea of taking balls away from Moss to give them to Lloyd, but I'd be thrilled if either Lloyd or ARE stepped up as a true #2.

So I don't care which one emerges -- I just want a reliable receiving threat opposite Moss. Besides, I think Saunders will use 3 receivers anyway...

[MRMADD]

In other words mark brunnel should be headed to Hawaii if he stays healthy

Yeah, if he throws for 3,600 yards, that's a safe bet.

[Langford78]

By saying ARE will be a tremendous pickup for our team, I didn't mean to imply that he was going to come here and light it up. I realize that he's going to be our #2 or 3 receiver. We didn't bring him here to challenge Moss for the #1 receiver spot. We signed him to return kicks and help take heat off of Santana, Cooley, etc. I think the "tremendous" part of signing ARE comes mostly from the improvement he should provide our team in returns.

Another thing I find myself forgetting sometimes is how much ARE and Lloyd will not only help our passing game, but the running game as well. Last year, at times it seemed like defenses would double team Santana, and bring nearly everyone else to crowd the box to stop Portis. But, like MRMADD said, we now have what very well could and should be a top 10 pass offense, so I think Portis very well could have a monster year this year as well.

[BigRay]

By saying ARE will be a tremendous pickup for our team, I didn't mean to imply that he was going to come here and light it up. I realize that he's going to be our #2 or 3 receiver. We didn't bring him here to challenge Moss for the #1 receiver spot. We signed him to return kicks and help take heat off of Santana, Cooley, etc. I think the "tremendous" part of signing ARE comes mostly from the improvement he should provide our team in returns.

Another thing I find myself forgetting sometimes is how much ARE and Lloyd will not only help our passing game, but the running game as well. Last year, at times it seemed like defenses would double team Santana, and bring nearly everyone else to crowd the box to stop Portis. But, like MRMADD said, we now have what very well could and should be a top 10 pass offense, so I think Portis very well could have a monster year this year as well.

You're right on the money with your assement..

[skinz4evr]

Good points

My only opinion on the matter would be that if Lloyd does not end up being the number 2 receiver that does not reflect well on him since we all know ARE can do a lot of things but Lloyd can only do one and thats play receiver.

I agree- I think Lloyd will win a #2 spot, though, and the coaches will be happy to have ARE in the slot on the nickelback, where they can also move him from side to side, etc. Lloyd had bad qb's throwing to him, and NO wr threats opposite him and he was still making plays. GREAT pickups this year.:applause: :applause:

[TURKEYTALKER]

If Lloyd only has 30 catches then we made a mistake. Patton would have given us that

[IM A REDSKIN FAN]

Steeler ARE =1 Ring

Redskins ARE= __ Ring

(fill in the blank)

[MRMADD]

If Lloyd only has 30 catches then we made a mistake. Patton would have given us that

Huh? Do you mean Patten? Or General George S. Patton Jr?

Are you saying the Skins are going to ressurect the brilliant battlefield commander? I like your thinking! But what makes you think he could catch 30 balls? I think a guy with the nickname "Ol' Blood-and-Guts" should be a linebacker.