Loyalty

[OrangeSkin]

There's a difference between passion and loyalty. A bandwagoner would be wearing an Iggles jersey today and be saying, "Yeah, I never liked the 'Skins anyway." A passionate fan criticizes the organization, the coach, the players, hell, the janitor when something goes wrong. But they're always 'Skins fans, no matter what.

I'm not sure what the psychological term is, probably something with "reverse" in it, but it's tough love. Look at it like this. When your son smokes pot, you know he was wrong, and you want to wring his neck. But you're not going to kick him out. You're going to punish him and so forth until he gets the message.

It actually annoys me to see a fan NOT criticizing the organization when some things clearly need to be changed.

It's our right as fans to bash everybody. We tend to overreact, but it's only because we love the 'Skins so much.

This happens every year.

[Pete]

Om.....you bad:D

56, sorry if you think myself and others poor fan for telling the truth about a Redskins player or coach. I call um like I see um, and can't go through life with rose colored glasses. I already have rose colored eyeballs:high: I always defend my team, but individuals only with reason. I'm not gonna defend DW if someone says he not wort letting on the field, their right. I would defend him if they called him a F'in dirt bag Redskin. If I said that the Signing of Deion Sanders was one of the biggest mistake ever made, your telling me you would defend the FO and Snyder on this issue?

I've been riding this Redskin Rollercoaster for too many years to swallow that post. Sorry bro:cheers:

[Luca Brasi]

Originally posted by Pete

56, sorry if you think myself and others poor fan for telling the truth about a Redskins player or coach. I call um like I see um, and can't go through life with rose colored glasses. I already have rose colored eyeballs:high: I always defend my team, but individuals only with reason. I'm not gonna defend DW if someone says he not wort letting on the field, their right. I would defend him if they called him a F'in dirt bag Redskin. If I said that the Signing of Deion Sanders was one of the biggest mistake ever made, your telling me you would defend the FO and Snyder on this issue?

I've been riding this Redskin Rollercoaster for too many years to swallow that post. Sorry bro:cheers:

As I mentioned earlier, but maybe didn't make it clear enough in my first post, I'm not talking about people getting pissed off here. Of course we're all pissed. I had thoughts of punching holes in my closet door (ex. Redskins loss to Tampa in last playoff appearence) but I managed to hold back. That's just being passionate like everyone else. But it's the people that will attack the owners and coaches, in front of other teams' fans no less, that embarrass me as a Redskins' fan and demonstrate no sense of loyalty to the tradition that is Redskins' football.

Would I say the signing of Deion Sanders was one of the biggest mistakes ever made? Simply, yes. Would I say that Snyder was an idiot for making the move? No. He signed what appeared to be the best free agents available at the time. And it went bad for him...real bad. But it's the people who'll swear to you that "I knew it the whole time, Snyder's and effing idiot and he should be sent to the depths of hell" that I've developed an extreme disliking for.

And I agree, DW should not be playing football. He looks like he should be drinking beer and watching the games from the sofa like the rest of us. But the last thing you want to hear after suffering through a loss is other Redskins' fans losing faith in our owner and coaches. It's just rediculous coming after 3 games.

For our fair-weathered friends:

Simple question. If our owner is an immature punk and our defensive coordinator is overated, then why are you still supporting the team? Go out there and find a team with a "wise" owner and a defensive coordinator that is winning right NOW. Because that's all that matters, correct? Right now is all that matters. And then, when the players pick up Marvin's system and start playing up to their capabilities, you can come back and pretend like you never left.

[Pete]

Fair enough 56. My misunderstanding:doh:

[skinsfanbu]

Fight on, fight on, 'til you have won,

Sons of Wash...ing...ton!

Some times the fights are among us "Sons of Washington", but the passion remains. We've had more bad years than good, but the passion remains. It's Sunday morning and the passion is reborn.

HTTR,

[jaydean]

loyalty is loyalty....face it folks, if we stuck thru an 0-8 start, and last year's debacle with marty, we'll stick thru this with anything. let's keep a perspective here. we have an incredibly talented team, we're now 1-2. WE COULD REEL OFF 12-13 WINS IN A ROW AND END UP 14-2....IT'S POSSIBLE......the main thing is, we as skins fans aren't fair weather fans. we stick by our team no matter what the circumstances are. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, I HAVE A NEIGHBOR WHO'S A VIKING FAN, AND HE HAS DONE THINGS LIKE BURN HIS VIKING FLAG IN THE FRONT YARD AFTER A LOSS. i've never done anything crazy like that.

[redman]

Originally posted by Skins56

We all have the right to voice our opinions, but I don't see how consistently bashing our owner and coaches show's any more passion than supporting them and their decisions, whether you agree or not.

I don't criticize to "show passion". My passion compels me to vocalize it when I think a Redskin player, coach, personnel guru or owner ****s up. I'm not sure there's room for confusion.

And I apologize in advance, but I will not blindly endorse, even with my silence, something stupid that my team does.

[redman]

Originally posted by Skins56

Would I say the signing of Deion Sanders was one of the biggest mistakes ever made? Simply, yes. Would I say that Snyder was an idiot for making the move? No. He signed what appeared to be the best free agents available at the time. And it went bad for him...real bad. But it's the people who'll swear to you that "I knew it the whole time, Snyder's and effing idiot and he should be sent to the depths of hell" that I've developed an extreme disliking for.

But I did know, and say, at the time that it was a bad move.

It's not all or nothing. I'm not a fair weather fan for criticizing stupid moves. I would be if my loyalty to the team was actually threatened by a stupid personnel moves. See the difference?

[g8wayg8r]

It's always so easy to follow - to jump on the bandwagon or to look some other teams and think that your guys are bums and the coaches are idiots becasue they do not look and do like the guys on top. I'm not happy with the outcome and the play of the team as a whole nowadays, but I'm not going to dump on them either. Why do it. Get a grip, baby.

It's also tough in St Louis, lately. The third quarter of the Bucks game isn't too sweet but I don't think you're going to hear the nastyness from most Ram fans as we are reading on this board about our players and coaches. On merit alone tonight, Warner would be a candidate for "publilc execution" if he wore a Redskin jersey. Guess he sucks too. I'll leave you with this. It's a bit over used but it seem like the right time to read it again.

"It is not the critic who counts, nor the man who points out where the strong man stumbled, or where a doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man in the arena whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs, and who comes up short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause. The man who at best knows the triumph of high achievement and who at worst, if he fails, fails while daring greatly, so that his place will never be with those cold timid souls who never knew victory or defeat."

--Teddy Roosevelt

[Carlito Sway]

Gotta agree with Tarhog here . . . it's not going to be all wine and roses from the start. Oddly enough, for the first time I can remember I am not panicky about the overall team fortunes under SS - but it may clearly take some time: time to develop Patrick, time to solidify the line, time for Marvin to, uh, figure out what the hell is up on that side of the ball. But all in all this thread is right-on; the sky hasn't fallen yet and likely won't.

[fuji869]

I am Burgundy and Gold all the way, just read my signature line. Being a Redskins fan runs in my family starting with my Grandfather in the days of Sammy Baugh, my father with Sunny and me with Darrell!

I said "I think Spurrier will succeed with the Skins, just not this year." These things take time, but I am, and will always be a loyal to my beloved Redskins. If I bash them it is out of love, not loss of loyalty.

That is what I pride myself on being a Skins fan is we are a group that stays loyal no mater what, we leave the fair-weather / bandwagon stuff for those Cowboy fans that come out of the wood works when the boys are winning.

[Tarhog]

Smooty, theres a first for everything!

Skins 56, ditto for me, guess I misunderstood your original post brother

My concern is not so much our own hot-cold tendencies as fans, but almost feel sorry for Spurrier and Lewis. It must be tough (yeah I know the millions they are making must soothe the pain but I'm not so jaded as to think thats all these two care about) to face the media and fans day after day. I honestly hope they know the vast majority of us are with them win or lose. I can b*tch with the best of them. My wife is constantly amazed at the deep depression a disheartening skins loss can bring on. But ultimately, if I wasn't a believer I'd just watch Battlebots and save myself the agony.

Hail to you too Fuji and to all the rest of you.

[indyskinsfan]

I will make my gawdam* point and that's it. Ok!

I can raise all t he friggin he** I want on the team I love because I have always supported them! Just because I raise he** about their performance and welcome someone and then curse his a** out the next day , don't mean I aint loyal. It means the same thing when someone runs into your car!

They had no intention of it, but you still get pissed!

So stop singling people out that critisize the team they love. Parents critisize their kids, workers on their boss, etc.

What the hel( is the board for, if I can't air it out and stay away a fuc*in month or two if I want. It 's my peroggative if I do. I have been known by people other than this board and folks on it and have no problem watching the team I fu**in want, and still be a fan. Stop finger pointin at a fans when they get mad at a team losing.

Go ask the Rams fans what's up. Think their bright eyed and bushy tailed??

[Luca Brasi]

Originally posted by indyskinsfan

I will make my gawdam* point and that's it. Ok!

I can raise all t he friggin he** I want on the team I love because I have always supported them! Just because I raise he** about their performance and welcome someone and then curse his a** out the next day , don't mean I aint loyal. It means the same thing when someone runs into your car!

They had no intention of it, but you still get pissed!

So stop singling people out that critisize the team they love. Parents critisize their kids, workers on their boss, etc.

What the hel( is the board for, if I can't air it out and stay away a fuc*in month or two if I want. It 's my peroggative if I do. I have been known by people other than this board and folks on it and have no problem watching the team I fu**in want, and still be a fan. Stop finger pointin at a fans when they get mad at a team losing.

Go ask the Rams fans what's up. Think their bright eyed and bushy tailed??

Well said Indy. If you're the type of person that likes to be surrounded by negative comments coming from every direction about something you hold so dearly to your heart, then more power to you. I guess misery loves company, right?

Personally, rather than suffering through a Monday after a Redskins loss by reading countless, unfounded and ignorant statements that are pointed in the wrong direction, I'd rather read posts containing constructive criticism and positives from the game. And there are plently of people that take this route. Art, Om, and a few others come to mind. It's just my opinion, so don't take it so personally there, guy.

[shamaran]

Very good thoughts Indy! Mine too.

I think like you and Redman expressed, many of the young fans confuse objective criticisim with non-loyality. Perhaps they are happy to say only glowing things to their wives and kids when they are discovered to be in error? Like foolishly spending the rent money on a new set of drapes (wife), or playing with matches (kids). Perhaps they are too young to even understand the distinction of blind faith vs. realistic assesment?

Maybe they view their citizenship in the same one-view-look- way? You know the one, "it's a damn fine country and if you don't like what's goin' on, leave!".

Communists were mandated to that way6 of thinking for years. 'Still are in some places. 'Last time I checked, we were free to express our views in this country. That goes for wives, kids, country, teams, etc., etc., If we feel passionate enough to be here, in the first place, why then must we hum the same om-drone of "the Team is Great, The Team can do no Wrong, Long Live the Owner, Dano, when in fact it (now)stinks?

When the team makes the moves, works harder, or whatever it needs to do to become good, then I will gladly laud their efforts for that too. I have followed the team since Mr. McPeak was coach and frankly, don't need the kids to tell me how to be a fan, or for that matter what they perceive a fan to be. But thanks, kids, anyway.

[phillyphattymatt]

Originally posted by THiTo48

how is Washington's 1-2 record Snyder's fault? how does signing quality free agents make Snyder at fault? when we made these acquisitions, everyone and their mother was thrilled... now, because of 2 bad games, it's Snyder's fault? please... i understand that you are a resident of Northern VA, but that doesn't qualify you to know jack about the Skins... if i was a fan of another team, especially the Iggles, i'd hate Snyder too... envy is a seven deadly sin and with that cheap owner Filthy has, one can hardly blame you...

I'll take a cheap owner and a good team over a money-wasting owner and a horrible team anyday.

[StinkNugget]

Originally posted by phillyphattymatt

I'll take a cheap owner and a good team over a money-wasting owner and a horrible team anyday.

Amen.

Loyalty is to a TEAM, not to an owner or a system. Why chastise your fellow fans for moaning about the owner? You're all rooting for the same side and its blatantly obvious that the owner and his way of doing things hasn't helped you at all, so let the people who dislike his say so, doesn't make them bad fans.

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Originally posted by StinkNugget

Amen.

Loyalty is to a TEAM, not to an owner or a system. Why chastise your fellow fans for moaning about the owner? You're all rooting for the same side and its blatantly obvious that the owner and his way of doing things hasn't helped you at all, so let the people who dislike his say so, doesn't make them bad fans.

how has Lurie helped the Iggles? as someone (Art, i believe) pointed out not too long ago, the Iggles and Skins (before this season) have had identical seasons since Snyder took over... Snyder has done all he can do with this team to make it better... and, IMO, i think he's done damn good... granted, the last couple years have been mediocre, but Snyder has yet to have a losing season... it's non-Skins fans that seem have this ignorant opinion of Snyder... i'd take him over any owner in the NFL anyday...

[phillyphattymatt]

Originally posted by THiTo48

as someone (Art, i believe) pointed out not too long ago, the Iggles and Skins (before this season) have had identical seasons since Snyder took over...

???? Last year was not so identical. Theres a big difference between playing in the NFC Championship and watching it on TV.

[Om]

So here we have shamaran, phillyphattymatt and StinkNugget holding forth on proper fandom. What a treat.

Shamaran pops in every couple of months with his sole contribution(s) that anyone can remember, i.e., that 1) Dan Snyder is a really bad guy who is too young and a buffoon, and 2) all Skins fans who deign to suggest that the kind of relentless criticism – with nothing constructive or original included – that he provides, is pie-in-the-sky naivete, and that only old guys whose sole apparent claim to authority is that they have been around for a really long time (and, by the way, seem irretrievably locked in and unable / unwilling to entertain new concepts or offer anything tangible beyond "when I was young, we had to walk to school barefoot in the snow, uphill both ways ..." kind of stuff) have a handle on "reality."

phillyphattymatt, meanwhile, continues to think anybody here gives more than a passing arse scratch when his moniker appears, and clearly believes that getting banned and edited from a football message board for climbing up on a table every couple of days and demonstrating over and over and over again just how appropriate his avatar has become, is some sort of bizarre badge of honor. His next original or thoughtful contribution will be his first. We hold out hope. Slim, but hope nonetheless.

StinkNugget .... well, who knows what he's still here for. Still trying to figure out how it is we're supposed to look beyond the handle. I just can't. I must be shallow. Must be some serious insecurity still rampant in fans of that team for so many of them to feel so irresistibly compelled to prop them up so incessantly, and so tediously, on another team's board. Sad.

Still ... you just gotta admire the predictability and perseverance of it all.

Is this a great country, or what?

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Originally posted by phillyphattymatt

???? Last year was not so identical. Theres a big difference between playing in the NFC Championship and watching it on TV.

i understand it's hard for you to read with your head stuck up your ***, but try removing it for 5 seconds and read what i typed...

since Snyder took over...

[StinkNugget]

Originally posted by Om

So here we have shamaran, phillyphattymatt and StinkNugget holding forth on proper fandom. What a treat.

StinkNugget .... well, who knows what he's still here for. Still trying to figure out how it is we're supposed to look beyond the handle. I just can't. I must be shallow. Must be some serious insecurity still rampant in fans of that team for so many of them to feel so irresistibly compelled to prop them up so incessantly, and so tediously, on another team's board. Sad.

Still ... you just gotta admire the predictability and perseverance of it all.

Is this a great country, or what?

What's more pathetic? Waxing philosophical on a message board about how some of the other posters annoy you, or expressing an honest oppinion about fan loyalty and how it shouldn't be based on the front office but on the TEAM?

I'm not really sure what bearing my handle has on your life, but I'm terribly sorry if it has blinded you to the fact that I do contribute to the football-related talk on this board.

[Henry]

No problem with being ciritical. No problem with not seeing every galss as half full. What I do have a problem with are the supposed Redskin fans that identify what they perceive as a problem (ie Snyder) and then laugh with glee when they are proven correct. Heck I'm leading in The Man contest because I picked us to lose to Philly and San Fran, but am I noting this with little smileys all over the place? No. It doesn't make me happy to be right. I would much rather be wrong and have the Redskins win. Some posters claiming to be Redskin fans are obviously happy being right about the Redskins' problems.

Redman and Indy do not fall into this category, but some others do, and we all know who they are. I'm just sick of responding to that nonsense, so I won't bother addressing anyone directly about it anymore.

StinkNugget has not yet given me a reason to value his opinion. Most of his posts are smack-talk and now this condecsending nonsense about how to be a true fan. Please. Three years ago these jokers were booing McNabb on draft day and now they are giving seminars on proper team loyalty? Amazing what one division title will do for some fans' confidence.

[Om]

Yeah, you're right Stink. You've been nothing but constructive since you've been here. I guess I must just have missed that post.

One thing, though:

Don't flatter yourself, you don't annoy me. Gnats annoy me. Dealing with my tax guy annoys me. Flat beer from the tap annoys me. You and your drive-by ilk, I mostly just ignore -- today's foray into the mire notwithstanding. As I'll go back to doing now, although I will breathlessly await your deeply wounded, devastating response to this.

*

Is it just me, or does it strike anyone esle as a bit comical that some fans (see? some wiggle room, Stink) of other teams come on the board, say stuff that only total stupidity could keep them from seeing will be taken as a bald challenge by the locals, then immediately fall back on the "who, me? I'm just trying to contribute" line of defense when challenged?

Oh well, back to the ivory tower.

[Luca Brasi]

Om, thanks bro, you summed it up perfectly.

Shamaran, I know I'm supposed to respect my elders and everything, but until you can back your statements with more than "I don't need no kid to tell me nuttin", then I'll take your response with a very fine grain of salt.

Phillywhatever and StinkNugget, I don't just support the team, but rather the organization. This topic is getting a little old, but if you guys choose to support only the Eagles team, and not Reid, Johnson and the owner, then that's your choice. I choose to support a very storied franchise which won 3 Superbowls to your 0. It wasn't only the team that accomplished this, but a combined effort from the coaches, the front office, and the team.